Dbrownss
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2014
- 31,359
- 8,734
[Yt]D4WO0mirjlQ[/Yt]
WI know that you already explained what you meant....but I wanted to get my shots in too
Shattenkirk and Free Agency
- Thread starter Blues88
- Start date
WI know that you already explained what you meant....but I wanted to get my shots in too
JayBo is a solid top/2nd pair guy depending on who he best partners with. I see no scenario where Jaybo on his own is more than #3 at this point in his career on a very good team. He never was dominate enough to be a number 1 and a stretch as a 2 though forced in that role as his teams were not very good. I can see Parayko getting to the #3 with what he has shown already and definitely has shown he belongs in this league top 4-5, unless I'm drastically missing something... So no...JayBo I never have saw as a number one as his draft position was in a lousy draft year and he was miscast being the 2nd pick...just my opinion.
Is he worth the 2nd overall pick? I don't know, he's not Pronger but he's still had a very solid career. But to be a 2 time All-Star and also play for Team Canada at the Olympics says something, that's not just an accident. Bouwmeester, especially with a better shot, would be a #1 defenseman on the majority of teams in his prime. To say he's a second pairing guy is vastly underrating him. It's not easy to find big guys who can skate like that and defend. Yeah on the Blues he's our #3 but we have one of the best units in the league. On most teams he's a current #2, because his offensive numbers are dropping. When we first acquired him he was still at least a decent #1. Calgary's problems went way beyond him being their #1, he got undeserved flack for that team. If Parayko reaches that level of play, it'd be great news. He could be better, even. Or he could be worse. We have to keep him around for a while to find out.
I don't think you are wrong in your assessment, but like Petro much of what he does is underappreciated. I agree. Many teams he is a #2, but is better served as a 3 on a contender. He never was as gifted offensively as Petro, but put up some goals and points based on his skating ability. Also because he was forced to be more offensive than his skills and vision dictated as teams like Florida lacked a talent alongside him. In Calgary as he does here at times, he tried to do too much and it cost them. He never had a partner that could cover his rear for him. This also lead to many questioning his hockey sense and calling him overrated earlier in his career. In St. Louis, he finally got to play JBo's true game. I think he is playing his best hockey now.
Captain Creampuff
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2012
- 10,969
- 1,816
Don't think it's realistic at all. Front office isn't going to trade away a guy they wanted so badly. I mean I get what you're saying that he could be a big trade piece but I just don't see any realistic proposal that takes Parayko away from the Blues.
- Jul 4, 2014
- 7,867
- 8,197
Something to keep in mind (and I'm certainly not breaking new ground here) but we have 1.75 seasons before we have to do anything. That is a really long time, and in that time a lot of things will become clearer including:
1. The market value for Shattenkirk in terms of the salary on his next deal.
2. The market value for Bouwmeester should we try to get him to waive his NTC.
3. The progression of Parayko over his first two NHL seasons.
4. The market value for Pietrangelo, should Parayko explode and make Petro expendable.
5. The development of Schmaltz during his first two pro seasons.
6. The development of Dunn during his final junior season and his first pro season.
7. The development of Walman during his sophomore season (does he maintain the pace of his fast start?) and whether or not he turns pro for 2016-17.
All of these things and more also need to get framed within perhaps the most important factor, and that is:
8. The needs of the team to fill holes elsewhere on the roster. Are we replacing Backes? Are we replacing Steen? Do Stastny and Lehtera provide enough at the center position to make us a viable Cup contender? How does the injury to Schwartz affect his contract situation and his production the remainder of this season and next? Do we have enough supplementary scoring behind Tarasenko? Will Fabbri blossom into the player his potential suggests? Will we get enough production out of young players like Jaskin and Rattie?
You can come up with literally 100 questions and issues that will directly or indirectly impact how we need to proceed with Shattenkirk's contract and the construct of the D corps going forward. There are just too many variables today to say with any certainty what the right answer will be when we have to answer the question.
1. The market value for Shattenkirk in terms of the salary on his next deal.
2. The market value for Bouwmeester should we try to get him to waive his NTC.
3. The progression of Parayko over his first two NHL seasons.
4. The market value for Pietrangelo, should Parayko explode and make Petro expendable.
5. The development of Schmaltz during his first two pro seasons.
6. The development of Dunn during his final junior season and his first pro season.
7. The development of Walman during his sophomore season (does he maintain the pace of his fast start?) and whether or not he turns pro for 2016-17.
All of these things and more also need to get framed within perhaps the most important factor, and that is:
8. The needs of the team to fill holes elsewhere on the roster. Are we replacing Backes? Are we replacing Steen? Do Stastny and Lehtera provide enough at the center position to make us a viable Cup contender? How does the injury to Schwartz affect his contract situation and his production the remainder of this season and next? Do we have enough supplementary scoring behind Tarasenko? Will Fabbri blossom into the player his potential suggests? Will we get enough production out of young players like Jaskin and Rattie?
You can come up with literally 100 questions and issues that will directly or indirectly impact how we need to proceed with Shattenkirk's contract and the construct of the D corps going forward. There are just too many variables today to say with any certainty what the right answer will be when we have to answer the question.
I think the Blues can keep Shatty, Petro, J-Bo and Parayko for the foreseeable future, and likely will go that route after seeing how much the team struggles with scoring during extended Shattenkirk absences over the past two years. As much as I was in favor of moving Shatty for Leon Draisaitl, I'm now in favor of keeping him around as long as possible.
If the Blues can pick up a dangerous forward for the playoff push, using Schmaltz, Walman or some other prospect...I think they'll be set. But I wouldn't start subtracting from the strength of this team unless you know for a fact that #22 can't be resigned.
If the Blues can pick up a dangerous forward for the playoff push, using Schmaltz, Walman or some other prospect...I think they'll be set. But I wouldn't start subtracting from the strength of this team unless you know for a fact that #22 can't be resigned.
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
Ok guys. Is trading Parayko more unrealistic than trading Pietro?
I think they are equally unlikely. Its worth at least exploring if any of these scenarios are.
We know Shattenkirk was "made available" in the summer, which I think was just an effort to test the market and see whether anyone would overpay considerably. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some tentative foundation for a trade that could happen later having it's kernel in last offseason.
Anything beyond that is complete speculation, so why not evaluate all the options?
Renard
Registered User
We would all love to keep Shattenkirk with the Blues because of his ability on the power play. That kind of talent is rare.
But its essential that we keep bringing up young players with low salaries to take the place of high priced veterans. I'm hoping that one of our three young offensive defenseman prospects comes along in a hurry replace Shattenkirk. Will it happen? Who knows. PP quarterbacks are hard to come by. They have to be nifty with the puck at the blue line to deke the forechecker, make quick decisions and good passes, have great vision, and a good shot. It helps that they are good skaters too in case of a short handed breakaway.
But its essential that we keep bringing up young players with low salaries to take the place of high priced veterans. I'm hoping that one of our three young offensive defenseman prospects comes along in a hurry replace Shattenkirk. Will it happen? Who knows. PP quarterbacks are hard to come by. They have to be nifty with the puck at the blue line to deke the forechecker, make quick decisions and good passes, have great vision, and a good shot. It helps that they are good skaters too in case of a short handed breakaway.
Quiddity
Registered User
- Feb 17, 2014
- 109
- 6
I know it will never happen but I would love to see Shatty auditioned at right wing. If Byflugien can successfully transition to forward, why not Shattenkirk? It would serve the dual purpose of filling a glaring hole on the forward lines while also allowing Parayko to be promoted to a top defensive pairing.
Last edited:
Vladys Gumption
Colt55
Just sign the man for god's sake. It's painfully obvious how important he is to our offense right now.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2008
- 19,372
- 8,897
As much as I'd like to move him for a top level center like Johansen, Shatty is just too valuable to this team. Plus, I have a feeling he's very well liked and it would disrupt the locker room to move him.
Vladdy the Impaler
Moar Sobotka
- Feb 12, 2008
- 19,372
- 8,897
I'd be ecstatic with that.
You gotta love this guy! He's an animal, and his defensive game has really progressed over the years. I just love his sense of urgency with the puck.....he understands how to attack defenses.
Captain Creampuff
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2012
- 10,969
- 1,816
He'd get 7 x $7m in UFA, quite possibly more if the salary cap goes up that summer. I think expecting him to leave $13m on the table is being overly optimistic.
I'm expecting it to be 7 or 8 years at $6.5m, with full NTC. I imagine that Pietrangelo's contract is likely to be our line in the sand.
http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/931554
Wanted to give this a bump into the new year and see if opinions have changed either way. I can't fathom this team competing after the deadline or next season if we move him. I really like Shatty and feel he's a core piece.
OT, but after the Johansen - Jones
trade, I'm laughing a bit at some of the undervaluing of Shatty in a few trade proposal threads. Jones? Straight up? Wow!
Wanted to give this a bump into the new year and see if opinions have changed either way. I can't fathom this team competing after the deadline or next season if we move him. I really like Shatty and feel he's a core piece.
OT, but after the Johansen - Jones
trade, I'm laughing a bit at some of the undervaluing of Shatty in a few trade proposal threads. Jones? Straight up? Wow!
RORbacon
Registered User
I would prefer to pay the man ... as stated 6x6 would be fantastic. I'd be willing to go up slightly (just to stop the awful trade proposals).
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,135
- 13,085
I didn't see the 'Insider' article since it is behind a paywall, but the piece linked is essentially pure speculation. There isn't a source from any team and the only support is that 'the Blues are on a budget and have other big contracts'. I'm sorry, but that is not a report. It is an educated guess on player availability based on cap numbers. I'm not saying there is no value to that, but labeling it as a report is click bait.
David Dennison
I'm a tariff, man.
Yeah, pay the ****ing man. We got to build around our 3 younger guys who are consistently excellent: Tarasenko, Petro, and Shatty.
Lakewood
Registered User
- Nov 17, 2013
- 1,150
- 121
I hope they pay him too. He's a winner, a core guy. I'll never forget how he handled the guy who threw the jersey over the ice last year. He knows how good he is and wants to win. He makes a few mistakes but you make a team of talent and winners and you sign guys like him and frank.
I think he is a mediocre defenseman with excellent puck moving skills who is worth a lot to other teams. Move him for something fantastic (like another Brouwer
) , let parayko be the next big thing, hope Pietrangelo finds his way on the plus side of the plus/minus stat again. Shatty seriously is not that good of a defender. I was pretty frustrated with him during the Chicago series.
) , let parayko be the next big thing, hope Pietrangelo finds his way on the plus side of the plus/minus stat again. Shatty seriously is not that good of a defender. I was pretty frustrated with him during the Chicago series.
Borderbluesfan
Registered User
I think he is a mediocre defenseman with excellent puck moving skills who is worth a lot to other teams. Move him for something fantastic (like another Brouwer
Wow, after watching every game this season, I think Shatty has brought more to this team offensively and defensively than our first pairing defensemen. Petro is okay, but nothing special offensively or defensively. Bouwmeester has been mostly a complete bust both offensively and defensively this season. Bouwmeester isn't even on the PP most of the time. Petro and Bouw shouldn't even play together on the first line, they are both easily beaten in our end of the ice. Petro can move the puck, but needs someone to cover for him as he is easily beaten along the boards.
