Speculation: Sharks Talk III (Trades, Roster Talk, Etc.)

[Juxtaposer]

Well, think of it as Pavelski being a 7th-round pick. And in regards to Couture, think about it as Couture having a chip on his shoulder due to not getting the attention of other top youngsters.

In any case, it always, to me, seems that Couture and Boyle take losses a lot harder than Marleau and Thornton do. I could be reading too much into it, but that is the impression that I get.

I ask again, do Kane and Toews have "chips on their shoulder"? Do they take losses harder than Marleau and Thornton? If you argue something against Thornton and Marleau, but can say the same thing about Kane and Toews, it's not a good argument.

 

[SJeasy]

Marleau did the exact same thing that game or the one prior. Could lead to a bad break (Detroit Game 3), but I was fine with it because it seems to work for Couture (goal or post) more times than not.

I remember because I was thinking to myself "Hey, Marleau actually tried to snipe a corner instead of aim for the crest."

Marleau used to go corner all the time. He has cut way back on it for 3 or 4 years. I watch the same on a variety of players and only a few are truly careful.

It was ironic back in Ehrhoff's time because Vlasic used to go corner on pinches while Ehrhoff really didn't. At the time Vlasic's pinches were deadlier than Ehrhoff's to the Sharks yet Ehrhoff was still getting the heat. Vlasic is more accurate now.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I ask again, do Kane and Toews have "chips on their shoulder"? Do they take losses harder than Marleau and Thornton? If you argue something against Thornton and Marleau, but can say the same thing about Kane and Toews, it's not a good argument.

I frankly do not know, because I do not follow the Hawks nearly as much. Toews does seem to be a little more introspective, but that is even more speculative.

What I will say, and this is a slightly different topic, is that Toews and Kane are generally harder to shut down. Both of them are more adaptable in the way they play. Of course, they go through slumps and injuries like any player...but generally, the only way to shut them down is to match talent against them. You can't beat them stylistically.

That isn't true for Marleau and Thornton. Both players are very confident in the type of game they play, to a fault.

 

[hohosaregood]

He actually said he would be captain "soon enough" or something like that at a STH's Sharks event. Can't remember if Marleau or Blake was captain at the time, but I remember being shocked he'd say it.

It clearly caused a huge rift in the room and now none of them can stand to bring it completely since he's become captain. Spite related laziness

 

[Juxtaposer]

I frankly do not know, because I do not follow the Hawks nearly as much. Toews does seem to be a little more introspective, but that is even more speculative.

What I will say, and this is a slightly different topic, is that Toews and Kane are generally harder to shut down. Both of them are more adaptable in the way they play. Of course, they go through slumps and injuries like any player...but generally, the only way to shut them down is to match talent against them. You can't beat them stylistically.

That isn't true for Marleau and Thornton. Both players are very confident in the type of game they play, to a fault.

It's curious to me because Toews scored 3 goals in 23 games last spring, and was carried to the Cup by his team's elite depth. If Marleau and Thornton had that kind of supporting cast, they'd have won a Cup long ago. Yet Toews is praised.

Toews is very low-key and even-keeled. But I think you're reading too much into it.

 

[WTFetus]

It's curious to me because Toews scored 3 goals in 23 games last spring, and was carried to the Cup by his team's elite depth.

Pretty awful shooting percentage though. Wasn't that your argument when you supported Seguin?

 

[SJeasy]

It's curious to me because Toews scored 3 goals in 23 games last spring, and was carried to the Cup by his team's elite depth. If Marleau and Thornton had that kind of supporting cast, they'd have won a Cup long ago. Yet Toews is praised.

Toews is very low-key and even-keeled. But I think you're reading too much into it.

Toews has the nickname "Captain Serious". Sounds intense to me. I have seen him go off a couple of times about supposed injustices, but I don't watch enough Hawks to see it as a regular occurrence.

Toews also gets the elite defender label pinned on him and mentioned far more often than Bergeron by the media. That is probably the most offensive bit of overhype that I see around him. What is worst about it is that he has Hossa riding shotgun and Hossa is a very good supporting defender. Bergeron usually doesn't have that level of secondary support although if they move Eriksson to his wing permanently, it might qualify.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Toews has the nickname "Captain Serious". Sounds intense to me. I have seen him go off a couple of times about supposed injustices, but I don't watch enough Hawks to see it as a regular occurrence.

Toews also gets the elite defender label pinned on him and mentioned far more often than Bergeron by the media. That is probably the most offensive bit of overhype that I see around him. What is worst about it is that he has Hossa riding shotgun and Hossa is a very good supporting defender. Bergeron usually doesn't have that level of secondary support although if they move Eriksson to his wing permanently, it might qualify.

To be fair, IIRC, Toews had a dominant playoffs defensively.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Pretty awful shooting percentage though. Wasn't that your argument when you supported Seguin?

Oh certainly, but I never see Easy talk about low shooting percentages when it comes to Sharks playoff performances.

 

[Eighth Fret]

I ask again, do Kane and Toews have "chips on their shoulder"? Do they take losses harder than Marleau and Thornton? If you argue something against Thornton and Marleau, but can say the same thing about Kane and Toews, it's not a good argument.

Kane, I have no idea, but from post-game interviews, I'd say yes with regards to Marleau. I've seen Jumbo look pretty devastated after a playoff exit. Marleau always appears to treat these things as nothing more than a bad day at the office. I think he was even smiling after we got bounced by the Blues a couple years ago. Again, that could just be his temperament and is not necessarily an indictment of his commitment level when on the ice, but it does give the outward impression that the competitive fire isn't as strong in him as it is in others.

With regards to Toews, what convinced me was 2011 when they had just gone down 0-3 to the Nucks, and he was being really curt with his post-game interview questions. He was seemingly polite as most players are but you could tell he was very upset, and then someone asked if the Canucks were just too good, and he basically said "You know what? They're not even that good.. we're a better team" (or something along those lines). That was a ballsy thing to say when you're down 0-3.

 

[hohosaregood]

Kane, I have no idea, but from post-game interviews, I'd say yes with regards to Marleau. I've seen Jumbo look pretty devastated after a playoff exit. Marleau always appears to treat these things as nothing more than a bad day at the office. I think he was even smiling after we got bounced by the Blues a couple years ago. Again, that could just be his temperament and is not necessarily an indictment of his commitment level when on the ice, but it does give the outward impression that the competitive fire isn't as strong in him as it is in others.

I think this year, he's gonna play the hardest he's had in the playoffs to make his sons proud of him. Marleau just seems like that kind of guy.

 

[hockfan1991]

Pavs has 6 even strength PTS in his last 15 games. Keep in my 3 came in 1 game. So he has 3 esp in 14 games. He will still get his power Playtime first unit. It's time to move him to 3c. If the 8-19-88 don't have a big game we often lose. Put all the pressure on couture line as no one else has been able to help with the scoring.

 

[SJeasy]

Oh certainly, but I never see Easy talk about low shooting percentages when it comes to Sharks playoff performances.

As I reminder, I see low percentages as partially a function of style. Although I think possession is a positive trait for a team there are ways of increasing possession while decreasing shot percentage. I don't think of percentage as purely a function of the player. I also see long-term percentage as an indicator as to where in the lineup a player belongs or whether he belongs in the NHL.

I do think of TM as pushing on possession even more heavily in the playoffs.