Speculation: Sharks Talk III (Trades, Roster Talk, Etc.)

[do0glas]

I love Joe, but it really pisses me off how much he's coasted for the past two months.

I would say only couture and Marleau have stayed consistent in their level of play. However, I think it kind of superfluous to attribute level of play to leadership. We don't know why the team play has went down, or why the team isn't beating non playoff teams. Even the coach can't figure it out.

I feel like this team has a fear right now. Overplaying or over extending in a game that may or may not get them the division. It would be points in JTs favor were he to pull the team together and go on a streak into the playoffs. But we didn't and I'm not sure what to make of it.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Pavelski comes off as being a great leader, IMO, because he is one of the guys who has really had to work on his game significantly to even make the NHL. Boyle and Couture are somewhat similar. The trio come off a little bit as having chips on their shoulders...

I think we see that extra work ethic, desire, spark, etc., and call it leadership. I don't know if it is fair. Maybe you can say that those players are harder workers, but leadership is a different thing.

What? Couture could've possibly gone in the top 3 if he didn't have mono and he was a top 10 pick. His path to the NHL was nothing like Boyle and Pavelski's.

Another reason, is that one of the visual ways to demonstrate leadership, is leading by example. Pavelski/Couture/Boyle exemplify this...but there are other ways to be a leader.

Marleau and Thornton have demonstrated leadership as many if not more times on the ice than those three.

Lastly, I will say what frustrates me about both Thornton and Marleau is their tendency to quickly head to excuses. I know some of it is hockey/team-speak...but at the end of the day, considering the talent level of the team "we tried hard and got unlucky" is not something I want the players to be saying. That is something that the fans rationalize. Players should give themselves no excuses. Couture and Boyle in particular don't seem to have those kind of excuses.

That's total bull. Couture has said "we tried hard and got unlucky" or something similar an equal number of times as Marleau and Thornton. That sounds more like your love for Couture blinding you a bit.


I will admit though, Jumbo's coasting this season is especially infuriating as well as Marleau's lack of emotion (being that the only face he seems physically capable of is :0) or :0|) considering our hopes for the division have all but slipped away but I'll wait till the post season goes and how he plays before I start calling him out. Just kidding lol I'd never call out the greatest shark of all time

 

[Negatively Positive]

The coasting is infuriating because what's the point of saving energy for a long playoff run if your coasting leads to a matchup with the Kings and a possible 1st round exit. Way to save energy for a 1st round exit. Put in a little more effort and you'll at least make it to the 2nd round and possibly beyond.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I would say only couture and Marleau have stayed consistent in their level of play. However, I think it kind of superfluous to attribute level of play to leadership. We don't know why the team play has went down, or why the team isn't beating non playoff teams. Even the coach can't figure it out.

I feel like this team has a fear right now. Overplaying or over extending in a game that may or may not get them the division. It would be points in JTs favor were he to pull the team together and go on a streak into the playoffs. But we didn't and I'm not sure what to make of it.

There's a difference between staying consistent in their level of play (which I would agree with your assessment on, Couture and Marleau are great night-in night-out), and effort level. Pavelski always puts in effort, even when he sucks. Jumbo's effort has been horrible over the past two months. He was incredibly dominant for the entire year until then.

 

[SJeasy]

What? Couture could've possibly gone in the top 3 if he didn't have mono and he was a top 10 pick. His path to the NHL was nothing like Boyle and Pavelski's.




Marleau and Thornton have demonstrated leadership as many if not more times on the ice than those three.



That's total bull. Couture has said "we tried hard and got unlucky" or something similar an equal number of times as Marleau and Thornton. That sounds more like your love for Couture blinding you a bit.


I will admit though, Jumbo's coasting this season is especially infuriating as well as Marleau's lack of emotion (being that the only face he seems physically capable of is :0) or :0|) considering our hopes for the division have all but slipped away but I'll wait till the post season goes and how he plays before I start calling him out. Just kidding lol I'd never call out the greatest shark of all time

I will pile on Couture here. Patty has learned to keep his shots in the frame on shorthanded breaks instead of trying to fine pick the corner. Couture had one of those moments the other night where the shot missed and came sailing back the other way.

My biggest bone in play on JT is getting caught more than once in short order on the same kind of turnover. It killed the Sharks in the Ducks and Hawks series. It's an issue of studying the opposition. I haven't checked his numbers but his giveaways do seem to be down now.

Marleau is Mr. Even Keel. You catch his intensity in the number of accelerations and backchecks.

 

[do0glas]

There's a difference between staying consistent in their level of play (which I would agree with your assessment on, Couture and Marleau are great night-in night-out), and effort level. Pavelski always puts in effort, even when he sucks. Jumbo's effort has been horrible over the past two months. He was incredibly dominant for the entire year until then.

I can agree with that. I worry that he is trying to rest when we should be dialing in a style of play. Otherwise I think we will be playing catchup against the kings.

 

[SJSharks42]

That's a bad assumption on your part and shows your bias.

When I went over the winning captains and their attributes, the benchmark for winning it all was intensity (not necessarily vocal). Keeping it loose is kind of the opposite. Another commonality for the winners was being inclusive. This only went so far as I could get confirmed anecdotes.

I won't deny that keeping an even keel in the face of adversity is an advantage. Keeping loose can help that.

It's a bad assumption that the captain's attitude trickles down to the rest of the room? Lol k.

 

[WTFetus]

I will pile on Couture here. Patty has learned to keep his shots in the frame on shorthanded breaks instead of trying to fine pick the corner. Couture had one of those moments the other night where the shot missed and came sailing back the other way.

Marleau did the exact same thing that game or the one prior. Could lead to a bad break (Detroit Game 3), but I was fine with it because it seems to work for Couture (goal or post) more times than not.

I remember because I was thinking to myself "Hey, Marleau actually tried to snipe a corner instead of aim for the crest."

 

[FeedingFrenzy]

The Sharks "lack" of intensity down the stretch has perplexed me. But the fact remains this team loses the division for several reason:

1) NHL Review Committee(Toronto War Room)-
3games - How big are those 3pts now??

2) NHL Review Committee(Toronto War Room)-
3games - How big are those 3pts now??

3)Losing at home to some of the worst teams in the league(pick any 2 games). I was fond of the Buffalo debacle and thrilled by the effort against Florida



As for us facing the Kings in the first round and going 7 games and being spent, Anaheim will have there hands full with Minnesota and I wouldn't be surprised to see that go 7. If Bryz gets hot that series will be a battle.

I am not worried about playing LA, in fact I think we take them in 5 or 6. Remember how nobody thought we would/could sweep the Canucks last year. This team is very capable of beating LA...I am excited for the playoffs knowing the Boyz in Teal have a great shot at the Cup..Bring on whomever!!! This lovefest for LA recently is nauseating at best..


I still firmly believe Stalock and his stick play is key to beating LA. When our Dmen are receiving the puck half-way out of the D-Zone it doesn't give the KIngs time to setup the forecheck.. Faster out of the zone the better. Nemo's stick handling plays right into the Kings strength.

 

[Vaasa]

Oh I see. I guess I just don't understand how our leading scorer and generally best player in possession, face offs, etc. lacks leadership under your definition. You should be more specific. As in, do you want him to hit more? Shoot more? Forecheck more? A few missed coverages here and there or bad penalties does not a bad leader make.

Your idea of being that example seems subjective and maybe only Crosby fits that definition.

The mentally lazy bit seems strict to me. No one can be perfect. Which goes into the locker room. Is he owning those mistakes? We don't know.

I'm not looking at stats at all. I'm looking at the effort and drive they show on the ice. Are they seemingly doing what it takes to win? Do I see them talking to the other guys on the ice/bench and (seemingly) providing guidance and feedback? When the team needs that tying goal are they the ones I see stepping up their game? Whether that is hitting more, shooting more, checking more, or whatever. Do I see them consistently (not always, but consistently) seeming to pay attention to the details of the game making an effort to play "right"?

Those are the things I mean by "leading by example". It has nothing to do with stats.

I can't see into the locker room or practice, but I can see what happens on the ice. And honestly, that's where I think the most important leadership comes from. If you can only lead the team once every 20 minutes during the breaks between periods, that isn't much leadership. You need to be doing it during the game, on the ice, where it is immediate and counts the most (IMO).

 

[Vaasa]

Pavelski comes off as being a great leader, IMO, because he is one of the guys who has really had to work on his game significantly to even make the NHL. Boyle and Couture are somewhat similar. The trio come off a little bit as having chips on their shoulders...

I think we see that extra work ethic, desire, spark, etc., and call it leadership. I don't know if it is fair. Maybe you can say that those players are harder workers, but leadership is a different thing.

Another reason, is that one of the visual ways to demonstrate leadership, is leading by example. Pavelski/Couture/Boyle exemplify this...but there are other ways to be a leader.

Plus, there is leadership vs. mentorship. For example, I would say that there are decent examples of both Thornton and Marleau taking younger players under their wing...how much they really helped is unknown, but there appears to be some level of mentoring from the two players. On the other hand, a player like Boyle doesn't have a great history of helping develop other defensemen, while players like Blake are universally praised for that quality.

Lastly, I will say what frustrates me about both Thornton and Marleau is their tendency to quickly head to excuses. I know some of it is hockey/team-speak...but at the end of the day, considering the talent level of the team "we tried hard and got unlucky" is not something I want the players to be saying. That is something that the fans rationalize. Players should give themselves no excuses. Couture and Boyle in particular don't seem to have those kind of excuses.

If I remember correctly (but am too tired to go check), Pavelski has been the Captain at every level of hockey before the NHL and led hit team to championships at nearly every level as well. And I think to either a championship or nearly a championship at baseball as well.

I don't think Pavelski has ever struggled to make it to the NHL. There may have been a bit of question as to whether he was ready in his first season, and probably no indication that he would be this good at the NHL level (I will admit that first season I thought Torrey Mitchell looked to have a higher ceiling), but he seemed pretty much a lock to make the NHL from his earliest times in the AHL.

 

[Timo Time]

In a strange turn of events, TMac is just making the other teams think he'll go top heavy with Pavs then drop him at 3C in Game 1 causing headaches for matchups. *End dream*

 

[hohosaregood]

In a strange turn of events, TMac is just making the other teams think he'll go top heavy with Pavs then drop him at 3C in Game 1 causing headaches for matchups. *End dream*

I could buy that. Maybe they're just trying to get Pavs to 40 goals first before they move him back down.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

"My favorite player is the best leader" is essentially all this has boiled down too.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Marleau is my favorite player but I can easily say that Thornton is the best choice for captain.

However, with that said, which player holds the C is not a very big deal. Not nearly as big as it is made out to be. It would just be awkward in the locker room if they stripped Thornton of the C for no reason and gave it to Pavelski. It's a terrible idea.

 

[hohosaregood]

I swear the players voted for Thornton when they chose him to be captain.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I swear the players voted for Thornton when they chose him to be captain.

I don't remember that happening. I remember the players telling Wilson to keep the C on Marleau back in 2003 but when Marleau got stripped, they chose Blake and I thought the coaching staff chose Thornton as well. I'm sure input was given from everyone within the team though.

 

[WTFetus]

I swear the players voted for Thornton when they chose him to be captain.

Same. Must have been mentioned on-air or on Shark Byte, because I can't find anything from Pollack articles or google.

 

[SactoShark]

It was not chosen by the players. The coaches decided after training camp.

I have no evidence, but that's what I remember. And yes, way too much stock is put into that particular letter.

 

[Mafoofoo]

I don't remember that happening. I remember the players telling Wilson to keep the C on Marleau back in 2003 but when Marleau got stripped, they chose Blake and I thought the coaching staff chose Thornton as well. I'm sure input was given from everyone within the team though.

Nah, I believe Thornton was the only one with the stones to go to DW and say "I want to be Captain". Everyone else was just going "oooh thatd be nice ". Not sure though.

 

[matt trick]

Nah, I believe Thornton was the only one with the stones to go to DW and say "I want to be Captain". Everyone else was just going "oooh thatd be nice ". Not sure though.

I know Pavelski said he wanted it as well.

Which I found interesting because of his youth at the time.

 

[Juxtaposer]

As I recall, Jumbo asked for the captaincy.

 

[Levie]

As I recall, Jumbo asked for the captaincy.

I'm 90% sure this is the story they told us.

 

[OrrNumber4]

If I remember correctly (but am too tired to go check), Pavelski has been the Captain at every level of hockey before the NHL and led hit team to championships at nearly every level as well. And I think to either a championship or nearly a championship at baseball as well.

I don't think Pavelski has ever struggled to make it to the NHL. There may have been a bit of question as to whether he was ready in his first season, and probably no indication that he would be this good at the NHL level (I will admit that first season I thought Torrey Mitchell looked to have a higher ceiling), but he seemed pretty much a lock to make the NHL from his earliest times in the AHL.

Well, think of it as Pavelski being a 7th-round pick. And in regards to Couture, think about it as Couture having a chip on his shoulder due to not getting the attention of other top youngsters.

In any case, it always, to me, seems that Couture and Boyle take losses a lot harder than Marleau and Thornton do. I could be reading too much into it, but that is the impression that I get.

 

[Led Zappa]

As I recall, Jumbo asked for the captaincy.

He actually said he would be captain "soon enough" or something like that at a STH's Sharks event. Can't remember if Marleau or Blake was captain at the time, but I remember being shocked he'd say it.