Sharks roster discussion

[StanleyCup2035]

They can waive him if they want to do him a solid and see if someone else will claim him and play him but if he clears, there really isn't a good reason to not keep him as the 7th defenseman. They need a 7th d-man and DeMelo is a good player for the spot. With Ryan stepping up, they need to move on from one of Paul Martin or Brenden Dillon.

Yes, I agree! I meant he should be assigned to Barracuda. If he's claimed, hope he succeeds somewhere else. If not, his leadership in Barracuda and ability to step in if/once Martin is traded would be valuable (or injuries)

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes, I agree! I meant he should be assigned to Barracuda. If he's claimed, hope he succeeds somewhere else. If not, his leadership in Barracuda and ability to step in if/once Martin is traded would be valuable (or injuries)

I don't think DeMelo should be assigned to the Barracuda. He's still the #7 right now. It's just that Martin going to the IR made another LD come up to take his spot. That #7 spot is still needed here and will still be needed when Martin is healthy again because they're not going to put Ryan in that spot. They will reassign him until they make a trade. DeMelo will get in the times that they feel Heed could use a game off.

 

[StanleyCup2035]

I don't understand what value Martin brings, at all. He's an over-the-hill below average defenseman at this point of his career. It's not like he's the missing piece for a Stanley Cup run. We're likely not even making the playoffs. We should be playing the young guys, and make him the 7th defenseman.

 

[PackShark]

I don't understand what value Martin brings, at all. He's an over-the-hill below average defenseman at this point of his career. It's not like he's the missing piece for a Stanley Cup run. We're likely not even making the playoffs. We should be playing the young guys, and make him the 7th defenseman.

A healthy Martin is still a valuable player and you can never have too much depth on defense. I do think giving Martin less minutes and some games off would be wise to preserve him throughout the course of the year.

 

[Lebanezer]

I don't understand what value Martin brings, at all. He's an over-the-hill below average defenseman at this point of his career. It's not like he's the missing piece for a Stanley Cup run. We're likely not even making the playoffs. We should be playing the young guys, and make him the 7th defenseman.

Martin will probably miss around 15-20 games with his current injury, so the Sharks will have plenty of time to play Ryan and see if he's the real deal. As PF said, one of Dillon or Martin should be moved, especially since with Dillon and Martin in the lineup the Sharks LD situation is devoid of puck movers. Dillon will be easier to move because of age and contract, and personally, he's the guy I would trade. Saying the Sharks are likely going to miss the playoffs seems a bit premature.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Martin will probably miss around 15-20 games with his current injury, so the Sharks will have plenty of time to play Ryan and see if he's the real deal. As PF said, one of Dillon or Martin should be moved, especially since with Dillon and Martin in the lineup the Sharks LD situation is devoid of puck movers. Dillon will be easier to move because of age and contract, and personally, he's the guy I would trade. Saying the Sharks are likely going to miss the playoffs seems a bit premature.

I think it makes most sense to move Dillon over Martin. Dillon likely has more trade value and I think Martin actually makes more sense to play with Heed on the 3rd pairing. If we can get a couple 2nd round picks out of Dillon to keep Ryan up with Burns, that's probably the best case scenario out of all this. Then in the off-season maybe look to move Martin which should be easier with only the one year left and the ability to retain salary if necessary.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Matt Tennyson has a job in the NHL and you’re telling me Dylan’s DeMelo wouldn’t? I know the DeMelo hate around here is strong but seriously?

Sam Reinhart?

Yes please.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Matt Tennyson has a job in the NHL and you’re telling me Dylan’s DeMelo wouldn’t? I know the DeMelo hate around here is strong but seriously?

Dylan DeMelo absolutely would have a job in the NHL and does. I just don't think he'd be picked up off of waivers. I don't think a team would make room to add him but if a team has an injury that they need a replacement for because they can't fill it from within then I think he'd be traded for. I don't see a team right now that would claim him off of waivers but I think a team may trade for him especially if he made it through waivers once like Pickard did when Vegas put him on and he cleared waivers.

 

[Rob Brown]

Dell expected to start tomorrow?

 

[AgentCooper]

Dell expected to start tomorrow?

We won't know anything until tomorrow, but I would say it's somewhere between likely and very likely.

 

[Mattb124]

It's an interesting scenario - Demelo appears uninjured but has been bypassed by Ryan and Heed for playing time. If memory serves, Ryan and Heed are waiver exempt while Demelo is not. We have Martin on IR but he will be back soon enough. I can envision a scenario where Martin ends up on our bottom pairing and we end up with some additional draft picks.

 

[Vaasa]

I think it makes most sense to move Dillon over Martin. Dillon likely has more trade value and I think Martin actually makes more sense to play with Heed on the 3rd pairing. If we can get a couple 2nd round picks out of Dillon to keep Ryan up with Burns, that's probably the best case scenario out of all this. Then in the off-season maybe look to move Martin which should be easier with only the one year left and the ability to retain salary if necessary.

I disagree. Martin should be moved over Dillon in my opinion. Even if they have to retain a bit of salary to do it. Martin has ranged from occasionally looking good, to mostly looking mediocre, with occasional bouts of outright suck. Dillon has mostly looked good, with the occasional suck game, but not that many (again IMO). Add in the age and likely injury factor and Martin should go way before Dillon. And as I've said in the past, the Sharks have no one other than Dillon and Burns with the ability to play physical with the big guys of the league (Big Buff comes immediately to mind) and you don't want Burns having to try and play those guys due to likely penalties. So you keep Dillon for those situations.

EDIT: The Sharks would immediately benefit IMO if Boedker, Martin, Hansen, and Ward could be moved out in my opinion.

 

[Gecklund]

I disagree. Martin should be moved over Dillon in my opinion. Even if they have to retain a bit of salary to do it. Martin has ranged from occasionally looking good, to mostly looking mediocre, with occasional bouts of outright suck. Dillon has mostly looked good, with the occasional suck game, but not that many (again IMO). Add in the age and likely injury factor and Martin should go way before Dillon. And as I've said in the past, the Sharks have no one other than Dillon and Burns with the ability to play physical with the big guys of the league (Big Buff comes immediately to mind) and you don't want Burns having to try and play those guys due to likely penalties. So you keep Dillon for those situations.

EDIT: The Sharks would immediately benefit IMO if Boedker, Martin, Hansen, and Ward could be moved out in my opinion.

Who comes in to replace Boedker and Hansen?

 

[AgentCooper]

A clip from the pregame show showed Ward with his right arm in a sling. Do we know anything about this?

 

[hohosaregood]

A clip from the pregame show showed Ward with his right arm in a sling. Do we know anything about this?

Might be related to some offseason surgery. I remember someone telling me that he had a sling in like july.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Boedker still looks clueless out there. So what can we get for this overpaid bum?

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

DW and Deboer are truly stubborn if they choose to keep Boedker out there.

 

[Vaasa]

Who comes in to replace Boedker and Hansen?

Goodrow for sure. Sorenson or O'Regan most likely from the Barracuda. I would lean towards O'Regan for more offensive skill.

Labanc - JT - Pavs
Hertl - Couture - Donskoi
Karlsson / Sorenson / O'Regan - Tierney - Meier
Sorenson / Karlsson - Carpenter - Goodrow

I might even be tempted to see if O'Regan would do well on the 2nd line with Hertl and Couture. Which would leave us with this.

Labanc - JT - Pavs
Hertl - Couture - O'Regan
Donskoi - Tierney - Meier
Karlsson - Carpenter - Goodrow

 

[OrrNumber4]

I disagree. Martin should be moved over Dillon in my opinion. Even if they have to retain a bit of salary to do it. Martin has ranged from occasionally looking good, to mostly looking mediocre, with occasional bouts of outright suck. Dillon has mostly looked good, with the occasional suck game, but not that many (again IMO). Add in the age and likely injury factor and Martin should go way before Dillon. And as I've said in the past, the Sharks have no one other than Dillon and Burns with the ability to play physical with the big guys of the league (Big Buff comes immediately to mind) and you don't want Burns having to try and play those guys due to likely penalties. So you keep Dillon for those situations.

EDIT: The Sharks would immediately benefit IMO if Boedker, Martin, Hansen, and Ward could be moved out in my opinion.

I think that is somewhat ageist of you; Martin has clearly been superior to Dillon. Dillon only has age over Martin; that bias is tilting your opinon of him.

I'd say that both should go. If the team is competing...well, Dillon is the weakest link so move him for help. If the team isn't competing, Martin is useless to the team and Dillon isn't exactly a building piece.

 

[67 others]

DW and Deboer are truly stubborn if they choose to keep Boedker out there.

Wilson kept Niemi for 5 years. I think we know how stubborn he is at admitting mistakes.

Most teams give a goalie 2-3 years of mediocrity at most before deciding to move on. The guy had 0 shutouts in 40 playoffs games for us.

 

[AgentCooper]

I think that is somewhat ageist of you; Martin has clearly been superior to Dillon. Dillon only has age over Martin; that bias is tilting your opinon of him.

I'd say that both should go. If the team is competing...well, Dillon is the weakest link so move him for help. If the team isn't competing, Martin is useless to the team and Dillon isn't exactly a building piece.

Completely agree on the ageism. I didn't really know how to phrase it last night, but reading Vassa's posts, my reaction was that it's just youth for the sake of youth. None of Sorensen, Goodrow, or O'Regan are better than any of Ward, Boedker, or Hansen. Nor do I foresee Goodrow developing into a Ward, or Sorensen into a Hansen. For me, the "AHLers can't be any worse" argument is not a reason to jettison legitimate NHL players (regardless of how frustrated we are with them at the moment), and often proves to be incorrect anyway.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Goodrow is very underrated imo.

 

[Gecklund]

Goodrow is very underrated imo.

I agree but to expect him to fill in on the second/third line and produce is a hard sell.

 

[Vaasa]

I think that is somewhat ageist of you; Martin has clearly been superior to Dillon. Dillon only has age over Martin; that bias is tilting your opinon of him.

I'd say that both should go. If the team is competing...well, Dillon is the weakest link so move him for help. If the team isn't competing, Martin is useless to the team and Dillon isn't exactly a building piece.

Dillon has 3 inches and 25 lbs over Martin. That's one thing he has over Martin besides age. And it's something I explicitly said he provides that no one else in the org can other than Burns. You sort of skipped over the main point.

And like it or not, as humans get older they get slower and more injury-prone. This is especially true in high-contact sports. That is a fact, not ageism. On their performance we can agree to disagree, but from my persective Martin has done nothing to impress me since he got here. He's had a few good games, but overall he's been mediocre at best and often bad (again, in my opinion). The simple fact is that Martin is a declining asset. Dillon may not be improving (I disagree and think he has improved a bit over the last couple of years), but I don't need him to improve to want to retain him over Martin.

As I said, Dillon fills a role on the team that doesn't have a replacement at the moment. Martin is being handily replaced by rookie, has been declining in performance since he arrived (whether that's due to age or whatever doesn't matter to me), and costs about $1.5 million more. That's why he needs to be moved.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Dillon has 3 inches and 25 lbs over Martin. That's one thing he has over Martin besides age. And it's something I explicitly said he provides that no one else in the org can other than Burns. You sort of skipped over the main point.

That didn't make Douglas Murray more integral; shouldn't make Dillon.

And like it or not, as humans get older they get slower and more injury-prone. This is especially true in high-contact sports. That is a fact, not ageism.

You are taking a general (and somewhat overblown) phenomena observed about a large population, and lazily slapping it on to individuals. Assuming Martin is declining/bad simply because he is old is ageism.

On their performance we can agree to disagree, but from my persective Martin has done nothing to impress me since he got here. He's had a few good games, but overall he's been mediocre at best and often bad (again, in my opinion). The simple fact is that Martin is a declining asset. Dillon may not be improving (I disagree and think he has improved a bit over the last couple of years), but I don't need him to improve to want to retain him over Martin.

Granted there is a degree of subjectivity, but Martin has been a great partner to Burns. He's been a solid PKer and a solid top-4 defenseman. He was invaluable in 2016 for the entire run and still very good in 2017 outside of a slow start...and if we're making judgements based on 2017, the entire team should be defenstrated.

Dillon has had many bad moments; the general opinion of this board has been that he is a #5 guy; #4 at best. I definitely see many more complaints about him than I do about Martin. Even if Martin is a declining asset (and I suspect with his contract structure, he isn't), would you rather have a 3-year-old BMW or a brand-new Honda.