Speculation: Sharks Roster Discussion Part III

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, it's all fair. I just don't care for the way that Deboer or the Sharks evaluate their youth. As you said, Carpenter should have been given a shot over Tierney, Tierney has been awful this season. Labanc, although he wasn't getting points, is still a better overall player then many of the guys were using. Yet, the organization doesn't see the value in what they're bringing and decides to play worse players or trade for a player that doesn't address a real issue. As long as this remains the status quo I think it's unrealistic for us to put any expectations on prospects or the opportunities for the prospects. If they don't prove themselves to be a top flight scorer immediately, the organization will go out and make a trade to take that spot in the lineup.

I agree with the concern on how they evaluate the youth. I just don't agree with Haley being in the way or that they haven't gotten opportunities in general. There are particular kids that haven't gotten opportunities but it's not something I'd say in a general manner. Carpenter and Goldobin both deserved better opportunities than they had been given. Some kids got more of an opportunity than they deserved. I can agree that there are better decisions to be made in this regard and that there are real evaluation concerns when it comes to the youth. But a lot of these kids will get shots and they have a high bar to reach given the fact that they're flexible in their contractual status to be sent down w/o having to worry. But as we saw with someone like Matt Nieto, when that option to be sent down comes with the risk of losing the player, it's a different story.

 

[Lebanezer]

I agree with the concern on how they evaluate the youth. I just don't agree with Haley being in the way or that they haven't gotten opportunities in general. There are particular kids that haven't gotten opportunities but it's not something I'd say in a general manner. Carpenter and Goldobin both deserved better opportunities than they had been given. Some kids got more of an opportunity than they deserved. I can agree that there are better decisions to be made in this regard and that there are real evaluation concerns when it comes to the youth. But a lot of these kids will get shots and they have a high bar to reach given the fact that they're flexible in their contractual status to be sent down w/o having to worry. But as we saw with someone like Matt Nieto, when that option to be sent down comes with the risk of losing the player, it's a different story.

Right. Ultimately, I think the way the organization views picks, prospects and young players is as currency for trades. We as fans often look to them as the future, but I think that's our mistake. When a Blues fan came on this forum and said that the Blues' beat writer Jeremy Rutherford said on the radio that the Sharks and Blues had a deal in place at the 2015 draft that would have sent Tomas Hertl and the 9th overall pick (Timo Meier) for T.J. Oshie and Kevin Shattenkirk, well that shocked me. I really thought that Hertl was supremely important to the future of the Sharks, but that's just not how DW seems to operate. Not to say that Oshie and Shattenkirk may not have made a huge difference to the Sharks, I think it shows the organizational philosophy and that we (or me personally) have to recognize that odds are the team will be built through trades and free agency.

 

[stator]

Off topic here but just a quick thought.

I'm sure it's been discussed here before but what are our thoughts on John Tavares in the 2018 offseason? Depending on what happens with Thornton and Marleau we could have plenty of cap space to make a run at him. Of course then the issue becomes would he have any interest in coming out West.

Better, he is UFA after next season. I see the issue for this off-season is that Islanders don't have nowhere near a cap space issue, plus Tavares has a M-NTC clause. I don't think he'll come but high-priced. Both for the club in a trade, and Tavares to sign a new contract and give up UFA.

Better yet would be Backstrom as the Caps have little leeway in their cap space with some notable players becoming UFA (i.e. Oshie, Winnik, and Shattenkirk to name some).

Although the real prize could be McDavid if the rumors during the draft about not being fond of the owner is true. He's RFA after next season and I don't see the Oilers hanging onto him for his entire career. However, I think he would favor a trade to a team where he can maximize endorsement income. I don't see the Sharks as one of those teams.

Bottom-line to me is that a 1st line center acquisition is going to be a popular topic with DW this off-season. Thornton is not it for today's NHL. Elite 1st line centers need to create plays and be a scoring threat. Thornton was always elite at creating plays and making assists, but lacked on the scoring threat side. That was fine then, but not now.

 

[Machinehead]

Hertl sucks in a new main boards thread

 

[Sysreq]

Hertl sucks in a new main boards thread

Sucks is too strong a word. He is legitimately one of the best wingers on our team and perhaps in the league.

But if I were DW, I would be looking for another 3c in the off season. We've tried Hertl at C so many times and it just never works. Great winger, but I don't think he can carry a line.

 

[OffSydes]

What are these McDavid rumors?

 

[The Nemesis]

Sucks is too strong a word. He is legitimately one of the best wingers on our team and perhaps in the league.

But if I were DW, I would be looking for another 3c in the off season. We've tried Hertl at C so many times and it just never works. Great winger, but I don't think he can carry a line.

It's hard to say he can't carry a line when most of his attempts this year have been on the 3rd line with Donskoi as basically his best winger (while he's having a bad year) and whatever other bottom 6 schlub they can cram in there. I don't think playing with Ward or Boedker out of his ideal Marleau-Couture slot is doing him any favors. He would need a real test as a top 6 center with quality offensive players before we can say for sure whether or not Hertl as a center is a total failure or a product of poor opportunities.

 

[Barrie22]

Move hertl to 2nd line center. Couture to 3rd line. Gives couture less chances to lose faceoffs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Move hertl to 2nd line center. Couture to 3rd line. Gives couture less chances to lose faceoffs.

I think at this point, the team is better off calling up Carpenter to try and do 3C and move Couture to wing especially if you want to keep Marleau with the Joes.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Couture-Hertl-Boedker/Donskoi
Ward/Karlsson-Carpenter-Hansen
Ward/Karlsson-Tierney-Sorensen/Meier/O'Regan/Haley/Labanc/don't care

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Move hertl to 2nd line center. Couture to 3rd line. Gives couture less chances to lose faceoffs.

Faceoffs don't matter and Couture is much better than Hertl.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Hertl sucks in a new main boards thread

W..wha...what?????

 

[The Nemesis]

W..wha...what?????

I think he's referring to the thread about whether or not Brown wrecked Hertl's career. It's not exactly saying he sucks.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Hertl's a good two-way third line center who can score on Thornton's wing. He fills an important role in our lineup but anyone expecting him to top out as anything more than a decent second line center is delusional.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think he's referring to the thread about whether or not Brown wrecked Hertl's career. It's not exactly saying he sucks.

A lot of comments do refer to the fact that he is merely a tweener.

 

[do0glas]

He drives his lines but scoring wise as a center he needs work.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think he's referring to the thread about whether or not Brown wrecked Hertl's career. It's not exactly saying he sucks.

That's a really ****ing bad opinion. Hertl's image is driven by the people who only saw his four goal game and think that he's 'regressed' since then because he isn't scoring 50 a season.

He drives his lines but scoring wise as a center he needs work.

He also needs some ****in linemates who can score. Donskoi is stone cold, Ward is Ward, Boedker is bad, Sorensen is an AHLer. Hertl tends to try and take on the whole team because his linemates can't do squat.

 

[hohosaregood]

That's a really ****ing bad opinion. Hertl's image is driven by the people who only saw his four goal game and think that he's 'regressed' since then because he isn't scoring 50 a season.



He also needs some ****in linemates who can score. Donskoi is stone cold, Ward is Ward, Boedker is bad, Sorensen is an AHLer. Hertl tends to try and take on the whole team because his linemates can't do squat.

You ain't wrong. He does need to work on his puck handling still imo

 

[Juxtaposer]

You ain't wrong. He does need to work on his puck handling still imo

Hertl is already one of the best puck-handlers on the team but the issue is that he tries waaaayyyyy to ambitious dekes. Like chill kiddo, you don't gotta take on the whole defense yourself.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

That's a really ****ing bad opinion. Hertl's image is driven by the people who only saw his four goal game and think that he's 'regressed' since then because he isn't scoring 50 a season.

What he can't score 328 goals a season? Bust!

 

[do0glas]

That's a really ****ing bad opinion. Hertl's image is driven by the people who only saw his four goal game and think that he's 'regressed' since then because he isn't scoring 50 a season.



He also needs some ****in linemates who can score. Donskoi is stone cold, Ward is Ward, Boedker is bad, Sorensen is an AHLer. Hertl tends to try and take on the whole team because his linemates can't do squat.

Id agree with you but he's not exactly creating chances and when couture can produce with him and boedker it makes you wonder.

Hes probably oyr best possession forward though and that's a very strong foundation.

 

[hohosaregood]

Id agree with you but he's not exactly creating chances and when couture can produce with him and boedker it makes you wonder.

Hes probably oyr best possession forward though and that's a very strong foundation.

This just means that couture and hertl should pair up like pavelski and thornton

 

[The Nemesis]

That's a really ****ing bad opinion. Hertl's image is driven by the people who only saw his four goal game and think that he's 'regressed' since then because he isn't scoring 50 a season.

Yeah, it's basically one guy (the OP for that thread) who is arguing that he was "destined for stardom" and hasn't made it because of Brown. Most others are saying that it might've hurt him, but he was playing waaaay over his head on that hot streak and he's come back down to be "merely" a pretty good player.

He also needs some ****in linemates who can score. Donskoi is stone cold, Ward is Ward, Boedker is bad, Sorensen is an AHLer. Hertl tends to try and take on the whole team because his linemates can't do squat.

I believe I just said that.

 

[Juxtaposer]

This just means that couture and hertl should pair up like pavelski and thornton

Okay but... yes... if we had a real 3C.

Yeah, it's basically one guy (the OP for that thread) who is arguing that he was "destined for stardom" and hasn't made it because of Brown. Most others are saying that it might've hurt him, but he was playing waaaay over his head on that hot streak and he's come back down to be "merely" a pretty good player.

Yikes! I'm not going near that thread because y'all know how I can't help but respond to that ****.

 

[Alwalys]

IMO if he didnt get injured in the finals he would be much more highly regarded today. He was going to be our best player in that series.

 

[Machinehead]

Some people were saying "OMG Hertl was supposed to be literally Jagr" and others were like "lol he was never that good!!" and I'm just sitting here like "He's a fine player and he's fine at being fine, why is everyone mad?"