Speculation: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 2

[bigwillie]

All true but often overstated in terms of how important it really is in terms of game play.

Yep. I think it helps to consider a faceoff nothing more than just another 50/50 puck battle, which occur dozens upon dozens of times a game. Faceoffs are one of the more visible, obvious battles, so we tend to assign them more importance, but in the grand scheme of things, they are just a fraction of those pucks that end up as possession coin flips throughout the course of the game.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

True, but JVR is also a long term acquisition. Especially since you think Goldobin is a bust, this provides us with an effective winger for a few years (and we could even trade Goldobin while he has some value)

Actually Goldonbin is the ONLY prospect we have that Sideshow thinks WONT bust

Every post is "call up Goldobin"

 

[Pinkfloyd]

True, but JVR is also a long term acquisition. Especially since you think Goldobin is a bust, this provides us with an effective winger for a few years (and we could even trade Goldobin while he has some value)

JVR isn't a long term acquisition. He's got one more year so it depends on his desire to re-sign which if we're giving up after Jumbo's done will be difficult to convince to stay. And Sideshow believes in Goldobin. It's sysreq that believes Goldobin is a bust.

 

[anthonyyy]

Trading Goldobin for Palat for the 1st line LW spot would be nice. Palat is also only 25.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

We don't need a long term solution at 1st line LW, we just need a rental. This is our last season of contention for a long, long time. I'd much rather trade a 3rd and Tierney for Vrbata than completely **** up our defense corps by trading Braun plus other high-value assets for JVR. I highly doubt JVR will be a good fit on the top line too, Thornton needs another right-handed shot there like Vrbata.

And I definitely don't think Goldobin is a bust. I would much rather trade Meier or Labanc than him but ideally we hold onto all of them. With the way Thornton is playing this is not the time to make a big splash. A low-risk high-reward upgrade like Vrbata? Absolutely. But it's not worth giving up significant pieces when it's entirely possible we go out in the first round behind two assists in 7 games by Jumbo.

 

[ScottyDont]

JVR isn't a long term acquisition. He's got one more year so it depends on his desire to re-sign which if we're giving up after Jumbo's done will be difficult to convince to stay. And Sideshow believes in Goldobin. It's sysreq that believes Goldobin is a bust.

My bad, can't keep track of everyones bust opinions

Also must have confused someone elses contract with JVR's. I'd still prefer someone young like him, with a greater chance of re-sign, then a pure rental in Vrbata

 

[Lebanezer]

Vrbata has a bonus structure in his contract that pays 250k for making the playoffs and another 250k for each round his team advances. So that's 1 million + in bonus money that would be eat into the cap next season of whatever team acquires him if they make the finals. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with him.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Vrbata has a bonus structure in his contract that pays 250k for making the playoffs and another 250k for each round his team advances. So that's 1 million + in bonus money that would be eat into the cap next season of whatever team acquires him if they make the finals. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with him.

The bonus structure helps the Sharks though because it allows them to go beyond the cap ceiling for this season. It's whatever bleeds beyond the cap that is applied to next season. And if either or both Marleau and Thornton go to a bonus structure type of contract, it shouldn't be very difficult to account for the potential 2.25 million in bonuses that Vrbata has.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Vrbata has a bonus structure in his contract that pays 250k for making the playoffs and another 250k for each round his team advances. So that's 1 million + in bonus money that would be eat into the cap next season of whatever team acquires him if they make the finals. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with him.

Additionally there is another 500k for playing 30 games and also another 500k for hitting 20 goals or 40 points. So his $1M cap hit is rather misleading.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Whomever we trade for needs to be an upgrade on Karlsson at the F1, assuming Hertl drops to the 3rd C eventually.

Among JvR, Palat, Vrbata, or other?, who would be the best to take that spot? Great forechecker, strong along the boards with better scoring pop than Karlsson but doesn't have to be at Hertl's level.

 

[hohosaregood]

Whomever we trade for needs to be an upgrade on Karlsson at the F1, assuming Hertl drops to the 3rd C eventually.

Among JvR, Palat, Vrbata, or other?, who would be the best to take that spot? Great forechecker, strong along the boards with better scoring pop than Karlsson but doesn't have to be at Hertl's level.

Milan Lucic.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Additionally there is another 500k for playing 30 games and also another 500k for hitting 20 goals or 40 points. So his $1M cap hit is rather misleading.

That's a huge help to us though as we'll have much more cap space next season than we do this year.

The more I think about it the more Vrbata would really be the perfect addition. We gave Meier a chance on the top line and he clearly couldn't hack it. It's time for DW to address that spot externally so Hertl can go back to 3C.

 

[Gecklund]

With Demelo hurt, do you guys see us taking Gelinas? I don't like the idea of Heed sitting in the press box and would much prefer him down with the Barracuda. With him being on waivers, I see Gelinas as a low risk, potential for high reward player. He can come in and play a few games and provide an offensive spark to our 2nd power play. I know he is kind of questionable defensively but he has only been on terrible teams.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Heed is better than Gelinas. There's also no issue with Heed sitting in the press box, he really doesn't need to develop any more than he already has. He was defenseman of the year in a better league than the AHL and then dominated the AHL. There's nothing left for him to prove or learn.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Meh. I wouldn't hate and wouldn't love it. We have the ability to shelter him, and he had his best years under DeBoer. Maybe he could help the PP?

Could be a Justin Schultz, could be a bust. I have no strong feelings either way.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

With Demelo hurt, do you guys see us taking Gelinas? I don't like the idea of Heed sitting in the press box and would much prefer him down with the Barracuda. With him being on waivers, I see Gelinas as a low risk, potential for high reward player. He can come in and play a few games and provide an offensive spark to our 2nd power play. I know he is kind of questionable defensively but he has only been on terrible teams.

I hope not. Heed sitting in the press box is fine because he has the ability to seamlessly go back and forth between the Sharks and Barracuda. He can give the team the ability to be there if an injury or illness means he needs to play and not sit in the box so long because he'll just play for the Barracuda. It helps them save some cap dollars along the way and they only need to have it done for a month and a half. Gelinas doesn't provide anything of value. He's not a high reward player at all. He's a no reward player. Plus when DeMelo is healthy, you have to stick him on waivers and may end up stuck with him. Heed actually has some promise and provides the team flexibility.

 

[hohosaregood]

I'd rather just use Heed instead of picking up Gelinas.

 

[Sharksrule04]

With Demelo hurt, do you guys see us taking Gelinas? I don't like the idea of Heed sitting in the press box and would much prefer him down with the Barracuda. With him being on waivers, I see Gelinas as a low risk, potential for high reward player. He can come in and play a few games and provide an offensive spark to our 2nd power play. I know he is kind of questionable defensively but he has only been on terrible teams.

Gelinas is on waivers? Wasn't he one of the young studs on D last year that made Larsson expendable?

 

[Jwec]

Vrbata would be cheaper than many other options. And I forgot that Perrault has contract till 2021 even though he is good player I wouldn't want to have that long contract unless we get him for scraps. But overall I think either third line center or top 6 winger would be good to get. Third line center would let Hertl play with Joes and top 6 winger would let Hertl play on third line C.

If we are not going to trade for anyone I would try Hertl as our first line center and Jumbo on our third line. Hertl+Pavs would carry first line I am sure. I think something like Donskoi-Hertl-Pavelski would be good. And I bet Jumbo would kill it against weaker competition comparing what he does now.

 

[Barrie22]

Vrbata would be cheaper than many other options. And I forgot that Perrault has contract till 2021 even though he is good player I wouldn't want to have that long contract unless we get him for scraps. But overall I think either third line center or top 6 winger would be good to get. Third line center would let Hertl play with Joes and top 6 winger would let Hertl play on third line C.

If we are not going to trade for anyone I would try Hertl as our first line center and Jumbo on our third line. Hertl+Pavs would carry first line I am sure. I think something like Donskoi-Hertl-Pavelski would be good. And I bet Jumbo would kill it against weaker competition comparing what he does now.

People have this great idea of bumping thornton down to the 3rd line like it means anything to other coaches in the league. 1st line, 2nd line, 3rd line, 4th line is pretty much a fan made up thing. Coaches do not match lines, they match players.

Thornton could be on what fans would call the 4th line. But coaches would still be throwing out there top defenders out against thornton. Even though thornton is playing bad for his standards, he is still the biggest threat on the team to take over games.

 

[hockeyball]

It sounds like the ask for Duchene is a good young d-man (Dillon, Schlemko, Braun), a good prospect (Roy, Goldobin, Lebanc...) and a 2nd/3rd round pick.

I would think we could afford that.

Ideally it's something like Dillon, (Roy/Goldobin/Lebanc), and a 3rd

Worst case it's Braun, Goldobin and a 3rd.

Honestly, it's an overpayment, but I'd do it. Ideally it's the former deal (probably Goldobin) and we can work something like:

Dillon, Goldobin, Ward (cap) + 3rd for Duchene

Then send off our 1st + Tierney for Shattenkirk (50% retained)

Roll with:

Duchene - Thornton - Pavelski
Marleau - Couture - Donskoi
Boedker - Hertl - Meier
Karlsson - Carpenter - Lebanc
Haley

Martin - Burns
Vlasic - Braun
Schlemko - Shattenkirk


If we don't win a cup with that, we are never winning a cup.

Immediatly re-sign Shattenkirk and let one of Marleau/Thornton walk in the off-season. Try to get a decent forward in free agency to fill as much of the gap as possible.

 

[rangerssharks414]

Gelinas is on waivers? Wasn't he one of the young studs on D last year that made Larsson expendable?

He was on Colorado, so I don't remember.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

It sounds like the ask for Duchene is a good young d-man (Dillon, Schlemko, Braun), a good prospect (Roy, Goldobin, Lebanc...) and a 2nd/3rd round pick.

I would think we could afford that.

Ideally it's something like Dillon, (Roy/Goldobin/Lebanc), and a 3rd

Worst case it's Braun, Goldobin and a 3rd.

Honestly, it's an overpayment, but I'd do it. Ideally it's the former deal (probably Goldobin) and we can work something like:

Dillon, Goldobin, Ward (cap) + 3rd for Duchene

Then send off our 1st + Tierney for Shattenkirk (50% retained)

Roll with:

Duchene - Thornton - Pavelski
Marleau - Couture - Donskoi
Boedker - Hertl - Meier
Karlsson - Carpenter - Lebanc
Haley

Martin - Burns
Vlasic - Braun
Schlemko - Shattenkirk


If we don't win a cup with that, we are never winning a cup.

Immediatly re-sign Shattenkirk and let one of Marleau/Thornton walk in the off-season. Try to get a decent forward in free agency to fill as much of the gap as possible.

I actually would give a lot more for Duchene than people probably would.

1st 2017
1st 2018
Top D or Top F prospect (not Labanc or Meier)
Dillon or Ward (to make the cap work)

for
Duchene
Picks (2nd or lower round)

 

[Lebanezer]

I actually would give a lot more for Duchene than people probably would.

1st 2017
1st 2018
Top D or Top F prospect (not Labanc or Meier)
Dillon or Ward (to make the cap work)

for
Duchene
Picks (2nd or lower round)

I would too. How often does a player of Duchene's caliber become available? Do your best to acquire him, maybe the Sharks don't have what they want, but get creative and make it happen Doug.

 

[Mattb124]

I doubt the Sharks have the pieces. Braun and Dillon don't fit the profile of the key piece for that trade.