Speculation: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 2

[weastern bias]

The dropoff from Schlemko to DeMelo is minimal, and replacing one in the lineup with the other is not worth being upset about, they're both fine players

 

[OffSydes]

Maybe there is a reason Schlemko bounced around the league

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

The dropoff from Schlemko to DeMelo is minimal, and replacing one in the lineup with the other is not worth being upset about, they're both fine players

Schlemko is our best possession defenseman after Burns and DeMelo is by far our worst. It's really not a small drop off. DeMelo, while better than Polak, is really not a NHL dman.

 

[weastern bias]

Dylan DeMelo has played 52 NHL games, I'm not going to put much stock in the possession numbers of a player with that little NHL experience who is still learning the pro game on the fly

It's good that Schlemko has good numbers against the weakest competition that any Sharks D man plays against, but it's not impressive, frankly his numbers better be good

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Any information DeBoer has that we don't have and that isn't injury-related (which doesn't appear to be relevant in Schlemko's case) should not be used to make lineup decisions. All lineup decisions should solely be made based on players' on-ice, in-game effectiveness which we are all privy to.

If you really believe this, you have a lot to learn about teams.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Dylan DeMelo has played 52 NHL games, I'm not going to put much stock in the possession numbers of a player with that little NHL experience who is still learning the pro game on the fly

It's good that Schlemko has good numbers against the weakest competition that any Sharks D man plays against, but it's not impressive, frankly his numbers better be good

Schlemko is the first third pairing defenseman we've had in a long long time to post great possession numbers in that role. It is far, far from a given that a dman is going to do what Schlemko has done this season even against easy matchups. Schlemko's numbers better be good? Well, Polak's numbers weren't and neither were Mirco Mueller's or Scott Hannan's or Brad Stuart's or Colin White's or Niclas Wallin's or Kent Huskins'...the list goes on and on and on.

Schlemko's ability to crush soft minutes is an important part of this team's success and a welcome change from the third pairing defensemen of seasons' past. Dumb**** DeBoer is throwing that away for no apparent reason.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Also DeMelo is already 23 years old and has never been anything close to a top player at any level of hockey. He's frankly not going to get any better and not worth sacrificing wins to develop at the NHL level. There's never going to be a need for DeMelo on this team.

 

[CrypTic]

DeBoer and Schlemko both emphatically and repeatedly called this a "coach's decision" so I'm absolutely blaming DeBoer for this until any actual evidence emerges that DW is pulling the strings. Also if the goal is to get DeMelo more games there are at least two other defensemen on the team who deserve to sit more than Schlemko.

I don't put much stock into what a coach says about things like that. He's not going to come out and say that he's showcasing someone. I doubt he'd tell the player that either bc they'd either tell the player being showcased (not good) or be put in an awkward position. Just knowing that a teammate might be traded soon could adversely affect the locker room and ppls' play.

Who gives a **** about practice? It's stupid to hurt the team's chances to win hockey games just because someone blew off practice.

It's not only about practice. It's about how other players feel about X player goofing off and the message it sends to the team if you excuse that. If you, as coach, feel like it's ok to have your players not take practice seriously, that's fine but many coaches won't bc it often spreads. Either other players resent it or start goofing off themselves bc it seems to be ok to do that. They may ignore the coach in practice, which makes it harder to improve parts of the game the coach wants to work on. That can spread to tuning out the coach in general.

Edit to add; I agree with your earlier comment that if it's bc of practice, one game should be enough unless Schlemko did somethi9ng egregious.

 

[weastern bias]

I never said it's "a given" that a 3rd pair player has good SAT metrics, I said they better

I agree that we haven't had solid depth D presence in years past, but that has been an organizational shortcoming that is the responsibility of the GM, not the coaching staff

I vehemently disagree that a 23 y/o player can't get better, we have examples on this very team that prove otherwise

And the idea that DeBoer has "thrown away wins" to keep his players in game shape is silly considering we are currently one of the winningest teams in the league

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

I don't put much stock into what a coach says about things like that. He's not going to come out and say that he's showcasing someone. I doubt he'd tell the player that either bc they'd either tell the player being showcased (not good) or be put in an awkward position. Just knowing that a teammate might be traded soon could adversely affect the locker room and ppls' play.

"Showcasing" players for a trade is something that happens far more often in fans' imaginations than it does in real life. Any teams potentially looking to trade for (or take in the expansion draft) Martin or Dillon have more than enough information to go off of at this point in those players' careers. And DeMelo has zero trade value and is never going to accrue any regardless of how many games he plays. Again, if the goal is to play DeMelo in order to make him eligible for expansion draft exposure it should be Martin or Dillon sitting, not Schlemko.

It's not only about practice. It's about how other players feel about X player goofing off and the message it sends to the team if you excuse that. If you, as coach, feel like it's ok to have your players not take practice seriously, that's fine but many coaches won't bc it often spreads. Either other players resent it or start goofing off themselves bc it seems to be ok to do that. They may ignore the coach in practice, which makes it harder to improve parts of the game the coach wants to work on. That can spread to tuning out the coach in general.

We don't know this has anything to do with practice. Seems like fans on here will come up with any theory necessary to keep from admitting DeBoer is making some terrible lineup decisions this season.

 

[Led Zappa]

"Showcasing" players for a trade is something that happens far more often in fans' imaginations than it does in real life. Any teams potentially looking to trade for (or take in the expansion draft) Martin or Dillon have more than enough information to go off of at this point in those players' careers. And DeMelo has zero trade value and is never going to accrue any regardless of how many games he plays. Again, if the goal is to play DeMelo in order to make him eligible for expansion draft exposure it should be Martin or Dillon sitting, not Schlemko.




We don't know this has anything to do with practice. Seems like fans on here will come up with any theory necessary to keep from admitting DeBoer is making some terrible lineup decisions this season.

You don't know either, but you'll use this as a other opportunity to push your agenda that DeBoer is an idiot.

 

[CrypTic]

"Showcasing" players for a trade is something that happens far more often in fans' imaginations than it does in real life. Any teams potentially looking to trade for (or take in the expansion draft) Martin or Dillon have more than enough information to go off of at this point in those players' careers. And DeMelo has zero trade value and is never going to accrue any regardless of how many games he plays. Again, if the goal is to play DeMelo in order to make him eligible for expansion draft exposure it should be Martin or Dillon sitting, not Schlemko.

You don't know about DeMelo. It's possible that scouts want to see him play if DW has talked to them and they've shown an interest. It could be something similar with Martin, Dillon, or another d-man. They have a large body of work but specific teams may want their own scouts to see them play now so they can assess them.

We don't know this has anything to do with practice. Seems like fans on here will come up with any theory necessary to keep from admitting DeBoer is making some terrible lineup decisions this season.

I agree that we don't know if this has anything to do with practice or with wanting to showcase a player. That's the point: we don't know what factors besides game play might be influencing PDB's decision.

I don't think anyone ITT has said that PDB isn't the one who deserves the blame. I've said that it might be 100% his decision. We're saying that we don't have enough info to say that with any degree of confidence. Not the same thing.

 

[WTFetus]

You don't know either, but you'll use this as a other opportunity to push your agenda that DeBoer is an idiot.

Sometimes it's too much, but at least it cancels out the "Deboer can do absolutely no wrong" party. I mean, we went so far as to think Nieto had mental issues to support Deboer. Teams aren't afraid to publicize benching for off ice antics. The fact that both parties are extremely mum about this (Schlemko sounded genuinely confused) makes it sound like it's just a favoritism thing.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

You don't know either, but you'll use this as a other opportunity to push your agenda that DeBoer is an idiot.

No I don't know for sure why DeBoer is scratching Schlemko. But I know to recognize a pattern when I see one. So far this season DeBoer has scratched Donskoi, Ward and Nieto in order to play Micheal Haley on numerous occasions. It's way more likely this Schlemko thing is the latest in a long line of poor lineup decisions rather than some strange intrateam feud over practice or whatever.

 

[Led Zappa]

Sometimes it's too much, but at least it cancels out the "Deboer can do absolutely no wrong" party.

I haven't seen that party. Between not knowing what really goes on behind the scenes, our place in the standings and last years results I'm willing to give him a long leash. I don't feel the need to get upset everytime he puts someone on the ice I disagree with and then call him an idiot, for example, because we get scored on even though said player was not the reason we got scored on.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

You don't know about DeMelo. It's possible that scouts want to see him play if DW has talked to them and they've shown an interest. It could be something similar with Martin, Dillon, or another d-man. They have a large body of work but specific teams may want their own scouts to see them play now so they can assess them.

I don't, but to me that would be an even worse reason for what's going on. At absolute best DeMelo would net us, what, a 4th round pick? Even that seems optimistic. Dressing a much worse defenseman over Schlemko in order to potentially have a chance at flipping him for a draft pick with a ~1% chance of turning into an NHL player is completely insane when we're ostensibly trying to win the Cup. And even if I thought it was actually a good idea, Martin or Dillon should be sitting in order to showcase DeMelo. Not Schlemko.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

No I don't know for sure why DeBoer is scratching Schlemko. But I know to recognize a pattern when I see one. So far this season DeBoer has scratched Donskoi, Ward and Nieto in order to play Micheal Haley on numerous occasions. It's way more likely this Schlemko thing is the latest in a long line of poor lineup decisions rather than some strange intrateam feud over practice or whatever.

So if you can't figure out what he's doing. He must be an idiot. I suspect he has accomplished more than you have or ever will.

 

[weastern bias]

it cancels out the "Deboer can do absolutely no wrong" party.

I would argue that, strictly when it comes to defensive personnel decisions, with our current roster, that's almost true

As long as Vlasic, Braun and Burns are playing, I actually don't care who the other three guys are, our D core is just that strong right now

Of course this has nothing to do with Pete himself (he didn't sign the players), but when speaking explicitly and literally about this specific matter "DeBoer can do no wrong"

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

So if you can't figure out what he's doing. He must be an idiot. I suspect he has accomplished more than you have or ever will.

He certainly doesn't have more Stanley Cup rings than I have.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

I would argue that, strictly when it comes to defensive personnel decisions, with our current roster, that's almost true

As long as Vlasic, Braun and Burns are playing, I actually don't care who the other three guys are, our D core is just that strong right now

Of course this has nothing to do with Pete himself (he didn't sign the players), but when speaking explicitly and literally about this specific matter "DeBoer can do no wrong"

Playing Micheal Haley, who's definitely not a NHL player, over Donskoi, Ward and Nieto is absolutely and objectively wrong.

I would argue the opposite: that because we have the deepest organizational roster in our history, DeBoer's decisions become even more important as the optimal lineup he has a chance to ice given our resources should be good enough to win the Stanley Cup. The opportunity costs to poor lineup decisions are much higher given the alternatives. Nick Spaling was a ****ing worthless sack of **** but at least in DeBoer's defense last year, playing him in every game was somewhat justifiable due to the lack of better options. That is no longer the case.

 

[weastern bias]

strictly when it comes to defensive personnel decisions, with our current roster

You didn't even pay attention to the specifics of what my actual statement said

If you're gonna talk around me instead of to me, I'm not gonna bother answering you

 

[hohosaregood]

We're trying to win games here not babysit middle schoolers. These are adult professionals. Hurting the team's chances to win just because they showed up late to work one day is asinine. At most, you set an example by sitting him for one game. This is two games and counting now that Schlemko is being scratched.



DeBoer and Schlemko both emphatically and repeatedly called this a "coach's decision" so I'm absolutely blaming DeBoer for this until any actual evidence emerges that DW is pulling the strings. Also if the goal is to get DeMelo more games there are at least two other defensemen on the team who deserve to sit more than Schlemko.

Who gives a **** about practice? It's stupid to hurt the team's chances to win hockey games just because someone blew off practice.

You cant just let a guy blow off practice without consequence. It's still a job

 

[hohosaregood]

I never said it's "a given" that a 3rd pair player has good SAT metrics, I said they better

I agree that we haven't had solid depth D presence in years past, but that has been an organizational shortcoming that is the responsibility of the GM, not the coaching staff

I vehemently disagree that a 23 y/o player can't get better, we have examples on this very team that prove otherwise

And the idea that DeBoer has "thrown away wins" to keep his players in game shape is silly considering we are currently one of the winningest teams in the league

Especially when we're talking about Schlemko who really didn't show much as a player until like two years ago.

 

[CrypTic]

I don't, but to me that would be an even worse reason for what's going on. At absolute best DeMelo would net us, what, a 4th round pick? Even that seems optimistic. Dressing a much worse defenseman over Schlemko in order to potentially have a chance at flipping him for a draft pick with a ~1% chance of turning into an NHL player is completely insane when we're ostensibly trying to win the Cup. And even if I thought it was actually a good idea, Martin or Dillon should be sitting in order to showcase DeMelo. Not Schlemko.

Or he's trying to free up a roster spot. I agree that DeMelo isn't likely to net much if teams are even interested in him. I don't put much stock into regular season games, especially this early in the season so if that's what DW is trying to do, I'm fine with it. If DW is trying to trade DeMelo, I hope that he goes somewhere that he has a chance to play. Things like that affect locker room morale too. If playing him is what it takes to make that happen, I think it's a good move. You disagree bc he's not likely to return much. I understand that perspective but I'm more focused on whether players feel like DW and PDB generally treat them fairly bc IMO that's more important for later in the season (and long term) than which players get play time right now.

I don't know if that's what is going on. It may be like you say and PDB is just playing DeMelo and sitting Schlemko over Martin or Dillon bc he thinks he's a better option on the ice. But I'm also not as worried about particular games right now. I only care if we make the playoffs and if the team is playing well then.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

You cant just let a guy blow off practice without consequence. It's still a job

Okay, so scratch him for one game. That's pretty standard practice and what happened to Seguin, Ovechkin and Klingberg in recent memory for missing practice or a team meeting. Two games? That seems to suggest Tuesday night wasn't some sort of punishment and DeBoer honestly believes the team is better served with DeMelo in the lineup than Schlemko. Which is insane.