GDT: Sens in Tampa Sunday 5:00 pm on TSN

[Burrowsaurus]

Right. Shorthanded. In a role he can actually be used. Assisted by Curtis Lazar, not Mark Stone of Kyle Turris. The fact is that while playing with the top line or with Zibanejad over the past few weeks, he hasn't produced a single point and his lines have been completely neutralized. No one can make excuses for him or Dave Cameron at this point. The results speak for themselves and the one ice play is even more damning. I'll even point the finger at Smith's presence on the PP unit over Mike Hoffman as being the major cause in the PP going quite as well.

Smith is suited well in that 4th line center role and has performed well there but he's been a complete negative for the club as a 1st line winger. This team can't hope to beat any team without our top line clicking.

It's time for DC to put guys in roles they're suited for rather than putting square pegs in a round holes.

There's no use man. You can say smith is a great fourth line player all you want but not a first line player and you'll still be labelled with "thinks smith sucks". And then we he goes back to the fourth line and starts playing well again and scoring guys will still be like "see as if people were ragging on him!!"

But yeah haha. He scored on a the PK. In his proper role. He didn't score by created extra space for his team mates with his harsh physical play. Some people are posting as if turris and Ryan are just so relieved that smith is with them haha. He literally used none of the attributes that were listed about him a few posts back to score that short handed goal too haha.

 

[bert]

We know what Bobby Ryan's issue is - he has a broken finger. Like Milo (who should be back tomorrow night) he needs a couple weeks off to let it heal properly.

As for Ceci, if he's out long term I think we need to take a look at Claesson. Mark Fraser is who he is - a borderline player whose lack of foot speed would be cruelly exposed against faster players and teams. He's basically Boro's twin, but perhaps half a step slower. There's a chance that Claesson might be an NHLer - no guarantee, but a chance. Might as well see now if that is the case.

If Ceci is seriously injured it's time to pull the trigger. This team will not survive without him long term. I agree in the meantime they need to bring up Kostka/Claesson not Fraser. Playing a LD on the right side simply does not work with who this group has to deploy.

 

[bert]

There's no use man. You can say smith is a great fourth line player all you want but not a first line player and you'll still be labelled with "thinks smith sucks". And then we he goes back to the fourth line and starts playing well again and scoring guys will still be like "see as if people were ragging on him!!"

Smith had hardly been an issue. He has gone up and played well this team is banged up. Lazar looks alot better in the middle of the ice especially better than LW.

This team needs to not have Alex Chiasson on it once the injuries subside.


MacArthur Turris Stone
Hoffman Zibanejad Ryan
Michalek Pageau Lazar
Prince Smith Neil

This is a really good looking group of forwards just need to get healthy. They have play alot of hockey this month the short break will help.

 

[topshelf15]

Smith had hardly been an issue. He has gone up and played well this team is banged up. Lazar looks alot better in the middle of the ice especially better than LW.

This team needs to not have Alex Chiasson on it once the injuries subside.


MacArthur Turris Stone
Hoffman Zibanejad Ryan
Michalek Pageau Lazar
Prince Smith Neil

This is a really good looking group of forwards just need to get healthy. They have play alot of hockey this month the short break will help.

Like to see neil have a seat as well ,not that he has been bad .But we need to become a four line team again ,and we could use more speed and skill in his slot

 

[Sens Rule]

Right. Shorthanded. In a role he can actually be used. Assisted by Curtis Lazar, not Mark Stone of Kyle Turris. The fact is that while playing with the top line or with Zibanejad over the past few weeks, he hasn't produced a single point and his lines have been completely neutralized. No one can make excuses for him or Dave Cameron at this point. The results speak for themselves and the one ice play is even more damning. I'll even point the finger at Smith's presence on the PP unit over Mike Hoffman as being the major cause in the PP going quite as well.

Smith is suited well in that 4th line center role and has performed well there but he's been a complete negative for the club as a 1st line winger. This team can't hope to beat any team without our top line clicking.

It's time for DC to put guys in roles they're suited for rather than putting square pegs in a round holes.

Whatever.

Stone 21
Turris 21
Hoffman 20
Pageau 19
Zibanejad 19
Smith 18
Chiasson 15
Prince 13
Lazar 12
Neil 9.5
Dizzy 8

With the injury to Ryan during game... What was DC supposed to do?

I do not want to see Smith in the top 6 ever. But reality now is that Pageau and Smith are very easily... By tremendous margins...better then the riff raff bottom forwards on this team or in the AHL.

Prince can not touch Smith's play this year.

What exactly are all these huge choices DC is supposed to make?

 

[aragorn]

Right. Shorthanded. In a role he can actually be used. Assisted by Curtis Lazar, not Mark Stone of Kyle Turris. The fact is that while playing with the top line or with Zibanejad over the past few weeks, he hasn't produced a single point and his lines have been completely neutralized. No one can make excuses for him or Dave Cameron at this point. The results speak for themselves and the one ice play is even more damning. I'll even point the finger at Smith's presence on the PP unit over Mike Hoffman as being the major cause in the PP going quite as well.

Smith is suited well in that 4th line center role and has performed well there but he's been a complete negative for the club as a 1st line winger. This team can't hope to beat any team without our top line clicking.

It's time for DC to put guys in roles they're suited for rather than putting square pegs in a round holes.

Who exactly is suited to play in these roles in your opinion right now? Look at this team & tell me who you would rather have out there. Read this thread, Zibanejad is sucking big time; no one wants Chiasson dressed or Neil; DD, Prince, Lazar & Pageau can't score; Ryan is hurt; so who exactly is left? Do you think a Bingo player is going to rescue this team? Look how Montreal is doing with two of their better players out with injuries, it happens, it's part of the game.

Smith is well suited for the 4th line but with all the injuries like every other team with injuries, players get moved up to replace injured players. That is how it works & it has been working fine for Ottawa with Michalek & MacArthur out. With Smith on the top line they beat a couple of pretty good teams in LA & SJ & have been in most games all yr & they have been able to spread what's left of the offence around. I just don't see how Smith is hurting this team in this role when it looks like he is getting some good chances & scoring the odd goal & playing so much better than he has the last 2 yrs. IMO I think he has helped them to not be worse. Here is an example of a number of Smith chances & goals in the last month or so:

http://senators.nhl.com/club/search.htm?q=zack+smith

 

[Sens Rule]

Smith is playing big time situations due to a rash of injuries. Like Chris Kelly did at times here. And Van Allen did here.

Smith deserves credit like they got for stepping up and playing decent. Like they got in the past. Not derision.

What you expect .75 pts per game from Smith now in his small sample size of playing top 6 ES minutes? Well that is a ridiculous standard to have.

And I ripped Smith for 2 years when he didn't play well. Kind of assumed in the summer he would lose his 4th line spot. Smith is having a career year. He deserves hardly anything but praise this year.

 

[God Says No]

Who exactly is suited to play in these roles in your opinion right now? Look at this team & tell me who you would rather have out there. Read this thread, Zibanejad is sucking big time; no one wants Chiasson dressed or Neil; DD, Prince, Lazar & Pageau can't score; Ryan is hurt; so who exactly is left? Do you think a Bingo player is going to rescue this team? Look how Montreal is doing with two of their better players out with injuries, it happens, it's part of the game.

Smith is well suited for the 4th line but with all the injuries like every other team with injuries, players get moved up to replace injured players. That is how it works & it has been working fine for Ottawa with Michalek & MacArthur out. With Smith on the top line they beat a couple of pretty good teams in LA & SJ & have been in most games all yr & they have been able to spread what's left of the offence around. I just don't see how Smith is hurting this team in this role when it looks like he is getting some good chances & scoring the odd goal & playing so much better than he has the last 2 yrs. IMO I think he has helped them to not be worse. Here is an example of a number of Smith chances & goals in the last month or so:

http://senators.nhl.com/club/search.htm?q=zack+smith

Uh, Prince would look 100x better than Smith in the top 6 role. Now, before you get your panties in a bunch read again what I wrote. TOP 6. Smith has been good on the fourth line, but he's not fitting in on the top 6 nor the PP. Don't know why Hoffman was removed from the first unit. When Hoffman was on the left side of the umbrella we had 2 threats from the top. Now we only have one, Karlsson. You are seeing the results, 0 for 5 on the PP and it didn't look too hot.

As for the game, the D was fine this time. It was the forwards. Especially in the third. So disjointed. Hoffman, Stone, Turris had all rough games. Still, 2 PP goals, one goalie interference goal and 2 empty net goals. We had a chance to win this if the forwards played a bit better. One thing is that we have fix the PK. It's terrible. You can count on at least one goal going in every game on the PK. Too bad Condra was wearing blue yesterday.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

0.75 points per game player, Zack Smith? I don't think we're talking about the same player.

They need to put a top 6 talent in those spots. Call up Puempel or put Prince there. I surely don't have to recite Prince's career to this point to illustrate how much more offensively gifted he is over Smith on this forum. It is known. The team should still be looking to develop these young guys and put them in roles to do so. I thought we were continuing with the youth movement.

I'd also be very interested in getting Dzingel some games. He looked good in training camp.

 

[Xspyrit]

Gosh it's true that Zack Smith got robbed a few goals lately

Right. Shorthanded. In a role he can actually be used. Assisted by Curtis Lazar, not Mark Stone of Kyle Turris. The fact is that while playing with the top line or with Zibanejad over the past few weeks, he hasn't produced a single point and his lines have been completely neutralized. No one can make excuses for him or Dave Cameron at this point. The results speak for themselves and the one ice play is even more damning. I'll even point the finger at Smith's presence on the PP unit over Mike Hoffman as being the major cause in the PP going quite as well.

Smith is suited well in that 4th line center role and has performed well there but he's been a complete negative for the club as a 1st line winger.

I just thought it was funny but you are right if you say Smith is not played in a role he is comfortable with. He is doing an honest job though, not his fault the injury bug is hitting the team this year. Smith is great as a bottom-6 center though and already has 8 goals.

I don't get why Smith should be blamed for that. It's just the circumstances, we are forced to play some players out of their comfort zone... That being said, the oly thing I could blame on DC is I'd go with Prince in the top-6 and stick with it, give him a longer opportunity.

This team can't hope to beat any team without our top line clicking.

I dunno, they still win more games than not or at least play for .500 (5-5-0 in the last 10). We want more, but I don't think they have the depth yet to survive with how much they are banged up.

 

[God Says No]

I don't get why Smith should be blamed for that. It's just the circumstances, we are forced to play some players out of their comfort zone... That being said, the oly thing I could blame on DC is I'd go with Prince in the top-6 and stick with it, give him a longer opportunity.

Precisely. You want the coach to put players in positions to succeed. Putting Smith in the top 6 was worth a look, but it's not working. So he should be put back where he succeeds. I totally agree with Prince in the top 6 as well. Put him there, and let him play half a dozen games. If he doesn't look good after a semi extended look, then it's plan C time.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Gosh it's true that Zack Smith got robbed a few goals lately




I just thought it was funny but you are right if you say Smith is not played in a role he is comfortable with. He is doing an honest job though, not his fault the injury bug is hitting the team this year. Smith is great as a bottom-6 center though and already has 8 goals.

I don't get why Smith should be blamed for that. It's just the circumstances, we are forced to play some players out of their comfort zone... That being said, the oly thing I could blame on DC is I'd go with Prince in the top-6 and stick with it, give him a longer opportunity.



I dunno, they still win more games than not or at least play for .500 (5-5-0 in the last 10). We want more, but I don't think they have the depth yet to survive with how much they are banged up.

Blaming it all on Smith is definitely not fair, you're correct. I think it falls more on the coaches. This is somewhat like Borowiecki and Cowen earlier in the year and how they drove that into the ground when it was so obviously disfunctional.

I wish we'd use our farm team's depth like in recent years when injuries hit. It always proved to help to varying degrees. Yoy can't discount the hunger of a young player eager to carve out a NHL career. Even Dzuirzynski has been fairly effective in his call up and he's not even close to one of our better talents in the AHL.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Precisely. You want the coach to put players in positions to succeed. Putting Smith in the top 6 was worth a look, but it's not working. So he should be put back where he succeeds. I totally agree with Prince in the top 6 as well. Put him there, and let him play half a dozen games. If he doesn't look good after a semi extended look, then it's plan C time.

I agree 100%. I hope this gets addressed when Milo gets back, at the latest.

Milo /Prince - Turris - Stone
Hoff- Zib - Ryan
Prince/Milo - Pageau - Lazar
Chiasson/DD - Smith - Neil/Chiasson

Looks pretty solid to me. That 3rd line looks excellent and the more I think about it Chiasson and Smith are a pretty damn good duo on the fourth line.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

On a more positive note, I was quite pleased with the play of Wiercioch and Wideman in those dire circumstances. Hopefully that carries forward. Lazar has been solid for a few games as well after a rough run of form.

I really hope that we're not about to see the Cowen - Boro combo. They should be calling up a defenseman and that should be Kostka since he's a natural RD. Will they play him over Boro or Cowen though remains the question.

 

[Smash88]

So apparently Dzingel is being called up.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

So apparently Dzingel is being called up.

Nice. Where'd you hear this?

 

[Smash88]

nice. Where'd you hear this?

Sens official Twitter just confirmed it.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Hopefully that means Ceci is alright.

 

[God Says No]

On a more positive note, I was quite pleased with the play of Wiercioch and Wideman in those dire circumstances. Hopefully that carries forward. Lazar has been solid for a few games as well after a rough run of form.

I really hope that we're not about to see the Cowen - Boro combo. They should be calling up a defenseman and that should be Kostka since he's a natural RD. Will they play him over Boro or Cowen though remains the question.

Yeah, considering the circumstances, Cowen coming in and Boro playing the right side is ok. But for the love of god, do not put them together as a pair.

Methot - Karl
Cowen - Wideman
Wier - Boro

Damn, still looks ugly.

 

[aragorn]

Uh, Prince would look 100x better than Smith in the top 6 role. Now, before you get your panties in a bunch read again what I wrote. TOP 6. Smith has been good on the fourth line, but he's not fitting in on the top 6 nor the PP. Don't know why Hoffman was removed from the first unit. When Hoffman was on the left side of the umbrella we had 2 threats from the top. Now we only have one, Karlsson. You are seeing the results, 0 for 5 on the PP and it didn't look too hot.

As for the game, the D was fine this time. It was the forwards. Especially in the third. So disjointed. Hoffman, Stone, Turris had all rough games. Still, 2 PP goals, one goalie interference goal and 2 empty net goals. We had a chance to win this if the forwards played a bit better. One thing is that we have fix the PK. It's terrible. You can count on at least one goal going in every game on the PK. Too bad Condra was wearing blue yesterday.

For the life of me I don't know why these NHL coaches don't agree with you & prefer to have Smith in the top 6 instead of Prince. What is it exactly that they know that you & others here don't know when it comes to Prince? Maybe it's his inexperience & turnovers and/or his play away from the puck and/or still not that good defensively. Most NHL coaches today want players to be good defensively & it's a message coaches are sending to young players all over the league. It's not just about offence which is what most on here ONLY care about.

Precisely. You want the coach to put players in positions to succeed. Putting Smith in the top 6 was worth a look, but it's not working. So he should be put back where he succeeds. I totally agree with Prince in the top 6 as well. Put him there, and let him play half a dozen games. If he doesn't look good after a semi extended look, then it's plan C time.

You know Prince has been tried in the top 6 numerous times & hasn't really contributed on the score board. Most are hoping for him to be as productive at the NHL level as he was in junior but that may take a few yrs & not happen in his rookie season. They may not be able to afford giving him an extended look, especially if he is making numerous rookie mistakes or turnovers especially if he is playing against players who can take advantage of them.

It seems to me that Smith is doing fine with Turris & Stone, they are still getting plenty of chances & are scoring just not in every game. They beat LA & SJ two good teams recently but then in other games have not scored. Why are people not more upset with the way Zibanejad is playing? Does he deserve to be in the top 6 these days? He certainly has the skill to be there but he seems to be struggling & is also not putting pts on the board. There seems to be a lot of other problems with this team other than Smith who seems to be doing his best & not hurting the team.

By the way, if Prince is so good why isn't he able to produce pts on his own or on any line? Why is it his line mates fault that he isn't producing, why isn't he making his line mates better? Why does he have to play in the top 6 for an extended time to prove he is a good player, why can't he show that from the 4th line or from any line? Hoffman started off on the 4th line, as I remember & Stone on the 3rd. Why do you think he is top 6 ready & the coaches don't? I think Prince has the potential to be a decent NHL player but I'm not sure he is the guy to turn this team around in his rookie season. Aren't you happen to see DD back in the NHL?

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, considering the circumstances, Cowen coming in and Boro playing the right side is ok. But for the love of god, do not put them together as a pair.

Methot - Karl
Cowen - Wideman
Wier - Boro

Damn, still looks ugly.

Well...

We could continue to ice

Wiercioch - Karlsson
Methot - Wideman

Then just ice Cowen and Boro for PK duties and the odd ES shift.

 

[God Says No]

For the life of me I don't know why these NHL coaches don't agree with you & prefer to have Smith in the top 6 instead of Prince. What is it exactly that they know that you & others here don't know when it comes to Prince? Maybe it's his inexperience & turnovers and/or his play away from the puck and/or still not that good defensively. Most NHL coaches today want players to be good defensively & it's a message coaches are sending to young players all over the league. It's not just about offence which is what most on here ONLY care about.

Not this stupid argument again. The coaching/management is infallible, it cannot be questioned!

You are correct that coaching prefers veteran experienced and more defensive aware players to play more. But I would say that the defensive abilities of Smith, and the defensive liabilities of Prince have been exaggerated. Bottom line is that the lines are not working, they need a change. The Smith experiment in the top 6 (and especially on the PP) has run it's course, just like the Boro on forward one.

You know Prince has been tried in the top 6 numerous times & hasn't really contributed on the score board. Most are hoping for him to be as productive at the NHL level as he was in junior but that may take a few yrs & not happen in his rookie season. They may not be able to afford giving him an extended look, especially if he is making numerous rookie mistakes or turnovers especially if he is playing against players who can take advantage of them.

Not sure you can make that statement. He's been tried a couple of times and didn't produce that much. But Smith isn't setting the world on fire either. The idea is to put players to succeed, and not fail. Smith in the top 6 is positioned to fail. My idea is to try him there for more than one game. Give a longer run. Look what happened last year with Stone and Hoffman. The kids got an extended look, and we got rewarded. That's the idea again. Have faith in the kid. He'll make mistakes, but don't yank him right away if makes one.

If you watch the games, Prince is actually driving possession which would help players like Zib or Ryan.

It seems to me that Smith is doing fine with Turris & Stone, they are still getting plenty of chances & are scoring just not in every game. They beat LA & SJ two good teams recently but then in other games have not scored. Why are people not more upset with the way Zibanejad is playing? Does he deserve to be in the top 6 these days? He certainly has the skill to be there but he seems to be struggling & is also not putting pts on the board. There seems to be a lot of other problems with this team other than Smith who seems to be doing his best & not hurting the team.

Not sure what your idea of "fine" is. Please elaborate, because I'm perplexed. They are not scoring, because the line is not working. Smith is hurting the team, as he could be excelling on the 4th line and not dragging down the second line down.

At least you are correct about one thing. Zib has not been playing great. I would have no issues in bumping him down a notch until he comes out of his slump. Prop up JGP, I know you love that idea.

By the way, if Prince is so good why isn't he able to produce pts on his own or on any line? Why is it his line mates fault that he isn't producing, why isn't he making his line mates better? Why does he have to play in the top 6 for an extended time to prove he is a good player, why can't he show that from the 4th line or from any line?

What are you talking about? Prince has been producing playing with Smith, Neil and other bottom six players. I'm not expecting him to produce every night as he is still a rookie, but he's been pretty damn productive no matter where he's played. I posted this in another thread, but here it is for you:

Hoffman started off on the 4th line, as I remember & Stone on the 3rd. Why do you think he is top 6 ready & the coaches don't? I think Prince has the potential to be a decent NHL player but I'm not sure he is the guy to turn this team around in his rookie season. Aren't you happen to see DD back in the NHL?

You just made my point. They did start on the fourth/third line, but eventually got moved up. Injuries hit, they were given an extended chance and it worked. How about we apply the same to Prince? I'm not saying for sure it will work, but it's worth a look since we all these injuries. Prince is more suited for the top 6 role, more so than Smith. So why not give him an extended look?

 

[Sensinitis]

Well...

We could continue to ice

Wiercioch - Karlsson
Methot - Wideman

Then just ice Cowen and Boro for PK duties and the odd ES shift.

At least for tomorrow, considering everyone will have time to recover properly.

Allows our top-4 D to eat big on Christmas too.

 

[Sensinitis]

MacArthur-Turris-Stone
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Ryan
Dzingel-Pageau-Michalek
Prince-Smith-Chiasson

I could live with Chiasson if Neil is out.

I just don't like having half our RWs being 4th liners.

 

[Cosmix]

he literally pulled him down to the ice with his stick

I did not see him fall to the ice! But the penalty shot was the correct call based on what I did see.