GDT: Sens in Nashville, Tues. 8:00 pm, TSN5

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Post game comments from the kaptain

-no need to panic
-everuthings ok except few minor things to figure out






There you have it

Stop panicking everybody lolll

Fairly certain he said no such thing. From the interview I heard, he said they need to play better, himself included, for the full 60 mins.

I hope you're not making things up to push your agenda. Please show me if I'm wrong.

Exactly.

What did Prince do to get the bench anyways?

Prince isn't doing a whole lot of anything at the moment. I'm all for giving him a bunch of games to get him back into the swing of things, but I'm also cool with throwing in Puempel to see if he can provide a little jam. Essentially, I don't think this move is a big deal.

No one should be coming of the 4th line after yesterday's game, so Prince is the odd man out at F.

If we are going to lose, might as well lose big just to show Murray that our defense sucks.

This I can agree with.

What do we lose in trying Chabot for 10 games?

Bonk did a good job of outlining why this would be unwise, but I also had to express how much of a terrible idea I think this is.

 

[Six Assets]

I hope we don't rush Chabot like we did with Ceci and Lazar. Not every mid-first round pick is Karlsson, and even he struggled in his rookie year.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I hope we don't rush Chabot like we did with Ceci and Lazar. Not every mid-first round pick is Karlsson, and even he struggled in his rookie year.

This argument is garbage with no factual basis from which to work, and yet people continue to trot it out.

There is no evidence that either Lazar or Ceci were rushed. They are both mid first round picks that are currently solid NHL players. What in the world were you expecting, that another year playing against kids would suddenly make them both better NHL scorers? That mid first rounders should all be elite NHLers rather than average NHLers?

Deal with your outlandish expectations and stop trying to blame others for your own internal failings. I know it's instinct to protect the ego, but you must try and rise above.

Activate common sense!

 

[Alex1234]

Fairly certain he said no such thing. From the interview I heard, he said they need to play better, himself included, for the full 60 mins.

I hope you're not making things up to push your agenda. Please show me if I'm wrong.



Prince isn't doing a whole lot of anything at the moment. I'm all for giving him a bunch of games to get him back into the swing of things, but I'm also cool with throwing in Puempel to see if he can provide a little jam. Essentially, I don't think this move is a big deal.

No one should be coming of the 4th line after yesterday's game, so Prince is the odd man out at F.



This I can agree with.



Bonk did a good job of outlining why this would be unwise, but I also had to express how much of a terrible idea I think this is.

http://video.senators.nhl.com/videocenter/


Its not the best for Chabot but its not terrible
Not the first to have a try in at 18 yo

 

[Six Assets]

This argument is garbage with no factual basis from which to work, and yet people continue to trot it out.

There is no evidence that either Lazar or Ceci were rushed. They are both mid first round picks that are currently solid NHL players. What in the world were you expecting, that another year playing against kids would suddenly make them both better NHL scorers? That mid first rounders should all be elite NHLers rather than average NHLers?

Deal with your outlandish expectations and stop trying to blame others for your own internal failings. I know it's instinct to protect the ego, but you must try and rise above.

Activate common sense!

You are content with our hyped up prospects turning into mediocre bottom-sixers. I prefer they be developed until they reach their full potential. Lazar was NHL ready, defensively, but his offence was and certainly isn't great by any means (fourth line standard at best).

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

http://video.senators.nhl.com/videocenter/


Its not the best for Chabot but its not terrible
Not the first to have a try in at 18 yo

Alright then, so he did say those things. I stand corrected. However, he said those two points as positives (scoring goals was the other) in between criticism of himself and his team, ALL of which you left out. Taken with some context, it's not as bad as you make it seem. He isn't going to say "we suck we'll never recover". He essentially said we have to work on some things, put in a better effort over 60, and the results will come. But that's just my opinion.

The boys were definitely hard on themselves this morning after practice though (video in same link as quoted).

 

[Ice-Tray]

You are content with our hyped up prospects turning into mediocre bottom-sixers. I prefer they be developed until they reach their full potential. Lazar was NHL ready, defensively, but his offence was and certainly isn't great by any means (fourth line standard at best).

Well I think that Lazar is realistically a 3rd line guy right now and we should be happy with how well he is playing in the NHL as a 20 year old. Let's be honest, most 1st rounders don't excel in the NHL, ever.

I wouldn't call Lazar mediocre, he's a 20 year old 13 games into his 2nd year in the NHL. He has gotten better this year and is starting to show flashes of offensive flair while being solid defensively. All at the age of 20.

I don't understand what you mean by "develop until they reach their full potential". Lazar is developing right now in front of your very eyes, consider that there is no evidence to support that he would somehow get better if he played another year in juniors, or was in the AHL. In addition, professional scouts and development staff have decided that he is better served in the NHL. What does that tell you?

We don't make a habit of rushing prospects, so I think it's safe to assume that our staff is bringing each player along on a player-to-player basis.

Why do you feel as though you know better? Is it because our mid first round player isn't lighting up the league offensively? Even though he was never really touted as that player to begin with.

I'll say it again, he is a solid 3rd line guy who is responsible in all zones, pk's, can move around the line up, and has been showing flashes of offensive skill. He is also 13 games into hes second season in the NHL and is 20 years old.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

I don't understand what you mean by "develop until they reach their full potential".

Just to jump into this, many people often associate development of all players as though all players played goalie. For a goalie, I think the consensus is that they need to play lots and face many shots to develop their overall game. So for players, it makes sense that they develop their (offensive) game by playing lots and taking many shots. It is a line of logic that I don't disagree with.

Lazar is developing right now in front of your very eyes, consider that there is no evidence to support that he would somehow get better if he played another year in juniors, or was in the AHL.

I don't think you can be so quick to dismiss it by simply saying there is no evidence for it. There are not parallel universes where we can see a player follow both paths. But there are plenty of players who on consensus have succeeded by marinating in the minors, or busted by being rushed. Sure it can be player specific, but there are also rules of thumb.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

This argument is garbage with no factual basis from which to work, and yet people continue to trot it out.

There is no evidence that either Lazar or Ceci were rushed. They are both mid first round picks that are currently solid NHL players. What in the world were you expecting, that another year playing against kids would suddenly make them both better NHL scorers? That mid first rounders should all be elite NHLers rather than average NHLers?

Deal with your outlandish expectations and stop trying to blame others for your own internal failings. I know it's instinct to protect the ego, but you must try and rise above.

Activate common sense!

Wait now we have to be factual... I missed that in the rules. Apparently I did not read the rules. I think both sides to this argument are opinions. At the very least I am sure you might even share the opinion that some players (across teams and years) have been rushed into the NHL. That opinion is influenced by a pattern of players excelling prior to jumping from junior to the NHL and perhaps coincidentally not living up to expectations in the NHL. The player loses confidence and cannot /does not develop skills that people expect they should. An opinion that takes the side that they did no harm to their game by coming into the NHL at a young age when they could have stayed back even though there are clearly elements of their game that need development is no more factual.

 

[Canadian Time]

Deal with your outlandish expectations and stop trying to blame others for your own internal failings.

Bravo, great line. Blaming others seems to be the thing to do, entitlement rules. Maybe we need the government to take over running the league so that we ensure everyone is taken care of.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Just to jump into this, many people often associate development of all players as though all players played goalie. For a goalie, I think the consensus is that they need to play lots and face many shots to develop their overall game. So for players, it makes sense that they develop their (offensive) game by playing lots and taking many shots. It is a line of logic that I don't disagree with.

I don't think you can be so quick to dismiss it by simply saying there is no evidence for it. There are not parallel universes where we can see a player follow both paths. But there are plenty of players who on consensus have succeeded by marinating in the minors, or busted by being rushed. Sure it can be player specific, but there are also rules of thumb.

There is neither evidence for or against. The point is that we can't assume that he would automatically be better had he played longer in other leagues, especially as a direct response to some fans' feeling that he is not meeting expectations. There is just no way to know, or even test it, and no reason to assume.

Wait now we have to be factual... I missed that in the rules. Apparently I did not read the rules. I think both sides to this argument are opinions. At the very least I am sure you might even share the opinion that some players (across teams and years) have been rushed into the NHL. That opinion is influenced by a pattern of players excelling prior to jumping from junior to the NHL and perhaps coincidentally not living up to expectations in the NHL. The player loses confidence and cannot /does not develop skills that people expect they should. An opinion that takes the side that they did no harm to their game by coming into the NHL at a young age when they could have stayed back even though there are clearly elements of their game that need development is no more factual.

The point is that Lazar is not meeting the expectations of some fans and therefore he should have played longer in juniors and the AHL because then he would have met their expectations. There is no basis in fact for a fan to hold onto this as true. Sure it may have had a positive effect, but just as likely to not have. All we're left supposition.

People assume that longer development in lower leagues means a better NHL player, however, this is not actually a general rule. Some players need more time, some don't. Some are ready to make the NHL, like in Detroit, but can't because there isn't room.

If you listen to our staff, time and time again the thing holding a young player back from NHL play time is not offensive honing, it's the ability to play an all around NHL game, and how not to be a liability on the ice while you learn the NHL game. It's why Puemple was sent down, Dorian said that his skills were good but he wasn't consistent enough to be in the NHL yet.

My opinion in the end is based on Lazar's play. I think he's been doing a good job for a 20 year old player. The only part of his game that is lacking really is his offence, and he isn't going to become a better NHL scorer playing in the AHL.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Well I think that Lazar is realistically a 3rd line guy right now and we should be happy with how well he is playing in the NHL as a 20 year old. Let's be honest, most 1st rounders don't excel in the NHL, ever.

I wouldn't call Lazar mediocre, he's a 20 year old 13 games into his 2nd year in the NHL. He has gotten better this year and is starting to show flashes of offensive flair while being solid defensively. All at the age of 20.

I don't understand what you mean by "develop until they reach their full potential". Lazar is developing right now in front of your very eyes, consider that there is no evidence to support that he would somehow get better if he played another year in juniors, or was in the AHL. In addition, professional scouts and development staff have decided that he is better served in the NHL. What does that tell you?

We don't make a habit of rushing prospects, so I think it's safe to assume that our staff is bringing each player along on a player-to-player basis.

Why do you feel as though you know better? Is it because our mid first round player isn't lighting up the league offensively? Even though he was never really touted as that player to begin with.

I'll say it again, he is a solid 3rd line guy who is responsible in all zones, pk's, can move around the line up, and has been showing flashes of offensive skill. He is also 13 games into hes second season in the NHL and is 20 years old.

NHL dump bins are littered with hundreds of guys over the years who were rushed into the league and never grew into what they should've been.

You keep forgetting, that not every decision a team makes is for the benefit of the long-term success of the team or player. Quite a few times, team feel the need to 'wow' the fans with a brand new hyped up toy, and bring a prospect into the NHL way too early out of desperation. Ottawa has a habit of doing that. It's either to generate fan interest, or the product of having a salary structure that can't accommodate a new player unless he's under his ELC.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

My opinion in the end is based on Lazar's play. I think he's been doing a good job for a 20 year old player. The only part of his game that is lacking really is his offence, and he isn't going to become a better NHL scorer playing in the AHL.

I have supported Lazar. I would like to see him play 3rd line vs 4th Line minutes.
I think its a tough call on the offensive development. You can see some incremental improvement recently. I don't like their 2nd PP unit with or without Lazar. But I probably would not use him on the PP. I don't like to see a young 19 - 20 y/o player playing 4th line minutes in the NHL. Lazar also gets PK minutes and he certainly plays the PK well. He is good enough to play on this team no question in my mind. To me if there was a mistake made it was made last year. He could have played Junior and continued to lead his team. There was no real reason to bring him in last year. IMO there would be more of an argument to bring Chabot in next year. I personally wouldn't but the argument could be made.

 

[Ice-Tray]

NHL dump bins are littered with hundreds of guys over the years who were rushed into the league and never grew into what they should've been.

You keep forgetting, that not every decision a team makes is for the benefit of the long-term success of the team or player. Quite a few times, team feel the need to 'wow' the fans with a brand new hyped up toy, and bring a prospect into the NHL way too early out of desperation. Ottawa has a habit of doing that. It's either to generate fan interest, or the product of having a salary structure that can't accommodate a new player unless he's under his ELC.

It's littered with players who never lived up to expectations. There really is no real evidence to show that any one player would have been better or would have met expectations had they stayed longer in lower leagues.

Ponder that for a moment, in every single case it is hindsight since no single player has done both for comparison. It is a convenient source of blame though I'll give it that.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I have supported Lazar. I would like to see him play 3rd line vs 4th Line minutes.
I think its a tough call on the offensive development. You can see some incremental improvement recently. I don't like their 2nd PP unit with or without Lazar. But I probably would not use him on the PP. I don't like to see a young 19 - 20 y/o player playing 4th line minutes in the NHL. Lazar also gets PK minutes and he certainly plays the PK well. He is good enough to play on this team no question in my mind. To me if there was a mistake made it was made last year. He could have played Junior and continued to lead his team. There was no real reason to bring him in last year. IMO there would be more of an argument to bring Chabot in next year. I personally wouldn't but the argument could be made.

I would also have liked to see him start in the AHL last year, but it just wasn't possible.

 

[Alex1234]

Alright then, so he did say those things. I stand corrected. However, he said those two points as positives (scoring goals was the other) in between criticism of himself and his team, ALL of which you left out. Taken with some context, it's not as bad as you make it seem. He isn't going to say "we suck we'll never recover". He essentially said we have to work on some things, put in a better effort over 60, and the results will come. But that's just my opinion.

The boys were definitely hard on themselves this morning after practice though (video in same link as quoted).

Thank you
I love Karlsson and think he's a top 10 PLAYER in the league when he's ON
hes so gifted and dynamic

But apart from some burst you gotta admit he's been off more then half of the time
and he's soooooo important to the success of this club
But since beginning of the season its easy to say he's not on par with what he can do
not even close
He seems less interested then he used to

For myself I would like an intense captain all the time a captain that is angry when we lose a captain that tries everything

Just my humble opinion

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Thank you
I love Karlsson and think he's a top 10 PLAYER in the league when he's ON
hes so gifted and dynamic

But apart from some burst you gotta admit he's been off more then half of the time
and he's soooooo important to the success of this club
But since beginning of the season its easy to say he's not on par with what he can do
not even close
He seems less interested then he used to

For myself I would like an intense captain all the time a captain that is angry when we lose a captain that tries everything

Just my humble opinion

I like what Methot had to say in the video you provided a link to.
Karlsson's body language has not been good.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I'm telling ya....that achilles isn't right. The way he moves and lack of power on the leg is a dead giveaway.

 

[Slack]

I'm telling ya....that achilles isn't right. The way he moves and lack of power on the leg is a dead giveaway.

You're probably onto something. I mean someone who's as explosive a skater as him just isn't skating for the most part this season. Really seems like something's not right.

 

[HavlatMach9]

I'm telling ya....that achilles isn't right. The way he moves and lack of power on the leg is a dead giveaway.

it's and everything is fine when he puts in the effort

 

[Boud]

I'm telling ya....that achilles isn't right. The way he moves and lack of power on the leg is a dead giveaway.

He started like this last season too.

 

[DrEasy]

It doesn't even have to be the achilles, it could be a groin injury, or anything else that slows him down somehow. Every time people want to blame lack of effort they should remember that these guys are very competitive professionals, and they have no reason or incentive to loaf around in front of millions of spectators. Occam's razor should always point to an injury (I guess a shaving injury, then).

 

[Boud]

It doesn't even have to be the achilles, it could be a groin injury, or anything else that slows him down somehow. Every time people want to blame lack of effort they should remember that these guys are very competitive professionals, and they have no reason or incentive to loaf around in front of millions of spectators. Occam's razor should always point to an injury (I guess a shaving injury, then).

While these guys are professionals, they are also humans. It's normal that they aren't always giving their full effort. The best of the best in every sports slack off from time to time just like anyone does in real life at one point or another.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

This argument is garbage with no factual basis from which to work, and yet people continue to trot it out.

There is no evidence that either Lazar or Ceci were rushed. They are both mid first round picks that are currently solid NHL players. What in the world were you expecting, that another year playing against kids would suddenly make them both better NHL scorers? That mid first rounders should all be elite NHLers rather than average NHLers?

Deal with your outlandish expectations and stop trying to blame others for your own internal failings. I know it's instinct to protect the ego, but you must try and rise above.

Activate common sense!

I wouldn't go that far and say Lazar has been a solid NHL player.

To me, he just seems to be there.

 

[Upgrayedd]

One of the more prolific meltdown's in recent history. All you could do was laugh and cry when it was going down over that minute or two in the second. Sickening i know but i think we all somehow knew we were done in the third even after going up 5-4. Growing pains i hope because this same story every year save for the miracle is getting so so tired!

Miss being excited for games rather than simply hoping the team shows up and doesn't embarass themselves too much.