Prospect Info: Sens Board Prospects Ranking 2023 #1

[Hale The Villain]

What a horrendous draft that was. Puempel, Noesen and Prince

Puempel was a bad pick, no question. Noesen was a good pick that would have ended up being a solid contributor had it not been for his terrible injury history. Prince was a fine gamble at the end of the 2nd.

But getting Pageau and Dzingel in the mid-late rounds more made up for those picks.

Heck even Claesson provided some value during the unexpected 2017 run and we got him in the 5th.

 

[robsenz]

What a horrendous draft that was. Puempel, Noesen and Prince

Those 3 combined for 7 goals for Ottawa...brutal.

 

[Tuna99]

Puempel was a bad pick, no question. Noesen was a good pick that would have ended up being a solid contributor had it not been for his terrible injury history. Prince was a fine gamble at the end of the 2nd.

But getting Pageau and Dzingel in the mid-late rounds more made up for those picks.

Heck even Claesson provided some value during the unexpected 2017 run and we got him in the 5th.

It was such a bad draft because they stated they were rebuilding and came out a draft that completely changed the Tamara franchise and we got nothing for it. Zibby was a good pick but Dorion figured out how to make something good into something bad - as he does

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Grieg, Ostapchuk, Kleven and JBD are the ones to watch this year. If one or more of those are able to step up and play as a regular, it could be helpful. Not sure about the other prospects.

 

[SENStastic]

Is JBD still considered a prospect? Not sure if given he finished his ELC and signed a 1-way contract already. I wouldn't count him.

Greig
Kleven
Soogard
Ostapchuk

I think those 4 in order have solid NHL future outlook. Rest are all still up in the air.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It was such a bad draft because they stated they were rebuilding and came out a draft that completely changed the Tamara franchise and we got nothing for it. Zibby was a good pick but Dorion figured out how to make something good into something bad - as he does

I don't consider it a bad draft if legit NHLers are produced but later foolishly traded away.

Zibanejad, Pageau, Dzingel, Claesson is a good haul, even if we had a lot of picks that draft.

 

[Tuna99]

I don't consider it a bad draft if legit NHLers are produced but later foolishly traded away.

Zibanejad, Pageau, Dzingel, Claesson is a good haul, even if we had a lot of picks that draft.

It’s an okay hall if your standards are average. There were MVP players available the Sens could have easily taken. Anyways, a massive missed opportunity to turn the franchise around

 

[Hale The Villain]

It’s an okay hall if your standards are average. There were MVP players available the Sens could have easily taken. Anyways, a massive missed opportunity to turn the franchise around

2011 draft was definitely an above average haul.

Especially when you consider that Noesen, despite an insane injury history that would have killed the career of most prospects, has developed into a solid NHLer.

If not for missing almost the entirety of his 20 and 21 year old seasons he probably would have been putting up the kind of numbers he had this past season at age 30 throughout most of his 20s.

 

[SlapJack]

It’s an okay hall if your standards are average. There were MVP players available the Sens could have easily taken. Anyways, a massive missed opportunity to turn the franchise around

MVP players that could have been easily taken? The only MVP from that draft was Kucherov and he was passed over 57 times before being selected. Tampa passed on him initially and picked a different Russian with their 1st rounder.

Ottawa's haul in 2011 was well above average. You can't name 5 teams that came out of that draft with better results without lying.

 

[Xspyrit]

It's Greig, but I can see an argument for Kleven.

Also - Viktor Lodin wasn't qualified so he's no longer Sens property. Ben Roger, Carson Latimer and Chandler Romeo were all cut loose as well. Johnny Tychonick has signed with Toronto [AHL] and Jakov Novak with Laval [AHL] so while they're both technically Sens prospects for another month, neither are staying in the organization.

I think we can probably cap the list at 15 this year. I don't even think they have 30 prospects in the system, and certainly they don't have any more than maybe a dozen with legit NHL potential.

Yeah looking at it, we still have a decent ~Top-12 (thanks to 2019 and 2020) but the depth after that is getting very thin

I will still try to do a Top-25 to stay consistent with our past polls.

Our system is obviously depleted with so many graduations the past few years but Grieg and Kleven are pretty solid prospects. Not "elite" perhaps but very good players with good odds to be middle roster players and not impossible either becomes top line guys (no, not likely but possible). Perhaps the rest are either lower roster types or further away and harder to predict but we aren't completely barren.

I have Greig as a Jaden Schwartz type and Kleven as a 2nd pairing version of Adam Pelech. These 2 are high end prospects IMO (from that killer 2020 draft)

Ostapchuk, Pettersson and JBD should have decent/solid NHL careers but all the rest have a lot of question marks

Is JBD still considered a prospect? Not sure if given he finished his ELC and signed a 1-way contract already. I wouldn't count him.

Yes he is, just turned 23 y/o and only has 32 NHL games. Read the OP it is explained why.

 

[Xspyrit]

This is going to be a rough looking list. Remember when puempel was voted #1

We definitely overrated Puempel, mainly after he scored 30 goals in the AHL. Let's say that it wasn't our best "scouting performance" as a group. Here's the highlights of the 2015 pool where he was voted #1. In retrospect, it's quite ridiculous that he was voted before Chabot

2. Nick Paul
3. Thomas Chabot
5. Colin White
10. Filip Chlapik
11. Fredrik Claesson
12. Ryan Dzingel
13. Andreas Englund
14. Marcus Hogberg
15. Ben Harpur
16. Christian Jaros
19. Max McCormick
22. Chris Driedger
23. Joel Daccord
29. Christian Wolanin

We had 3 relatively poor drafts from 2012 to 2014 (2014 was a weak draft) and it showed in the 2015 pool... it's reminiscent of our 2021 to 2023 drafts lol. The difference is we weren't in a full rebuild back then... we had made the playoffs two years in a row and even won a round. Plus we graduated Ceci and Lazar fairly quickly and traded our 1st and 2nd for a top-6 forward (in a DeBrincat fashion)

What a horrendous draft that was. Puempel, Noesen and Prince

No it was actually a great draft :

#6 Mika Zibanejad (star center)
#96 Jean-Gabriel Pageau (high end 2-way 3rd line center)
#204 Ryan Dzingel (great scoring support for a few years but unfortunately short prime)
#21 Stefan Noesen (is becoming a good 3rd liner but injuries slowed him down so much)
#126 Fredrik Claesson (170 GP)
#61 Shane Prince (128 GP)
#171 Max McCormick (93 GP)
#24 Matt Puempel (87 GP)

Only Kramer (6th round pick) and Fransoo (7th round pick) didn't play any NHL games. In retrospect, Puempel was our worst pick, the rest was pretty damn good, even Prince who was the last pick of the 2nd round

 

[Xspyrit]

It was such a bad draft because they stated they were rebuilding and came out a draft that completely changed the Tamara franchise and we got nothing for it. Zibby was a good pick but Dorion figured out how to make something good into something bad - as he does

It's 2011... Dorion was not the GM... and we were not rebuilding... we were retooling on the fly

It’s an okay hall if your standards are average. There were MVP players available the Sens could have easily taken. Anyways, a massive missed opportunity to turn the franchise around

Who? I mean, assuming you're satisfied with drafting Zibanejad at 6th, here's the significant players who were selected after we made our 21st OA selection :

#58 Kucherov
#104 Gaudreau
#43 Saad
#208 Palat
#64 Trocheck
#30 Rakell
#53 W. Karlsson
#37 Jenner
#26 Danault
#27 Namestnikov
#139 A. Shaw
#67 Lowry
#39 Gibson
#47 Nieto
#160 Manson

Who should have we drafted instead of #21, #24 and #61? I mean, the margin for error looks very very thin

As of right now, Ottawa drafted the 6th, 19th and 28th best scorer in this draft. I mean, just from a production standpoint this sounds like a way above average draft haul

 

[bicboi64]

Seeing Puempel's name got me down memory lane. Turns out we traded two 2nds to the Wings to get the pick we used on him. Wings drafter Tomas Jurco and Zavier Ouellet with those, so it turns out it was a lose-lose trade.

As a kid I was hyped for Puempel, thought we'd have winger prospects in the pipeline that Spezza would turn into top 6 forwards lol

#6 Mika Zibanejad (star center)
#96 Jean-Gabriel Pageau (high end 2-way 3rd line center)
#204 Ryan Dzingel (great scoring support for a few years but unfortunately short prime)
#21 Stefan Noesen (is becoming a good 3rd liner but injuries slowed him down so much)
#126 Fredrik Claesson (170 GP)
#61 Shane Prince (128 GP)
#171 Max McCormick (93 GP)
#24 Matt Puempel (87 GP)

Only Kramer (6th round pick) and Fransoo (7th round pick) didn't play any NHL games. In retrospect, Puempel was our worst pick, the rest was pretty damn good, even Prince who was the last pick of the 2nd round

Definitely a very solid draft at worst.

Players taken in every round plays a decent amount of games in the big club. A home run in Zibby, considering Scheifele, Couturier, and Hamilton were available. I wanted Couturier since I thought he'd go 1st overall at the start of the season.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It’s an okay hall if your standards are average. There were MVP players available the Sens could have easily taken. Anyways, a massive missed opportunity to turn the franchise around

Who were these MVP Hart players? Did 30 other teams pass on them too, before they were drafted.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It's 2011... Dorion was not the GM... and we were not rebuilding... we were retooling on the fly



Who? I mean, assuming you're satisfied with drafting Zibanejad at 6th, here's the significant players who were selected after we made our 21st OA selection :

#58 Kucherov
#104 Gaudreau
#43 Saad
#208 Palat
#64 Trocheck
#30 Rakell
#53 W. Karlsson
#37 Jenner
#26 Danault
#27 Namestnikov
#139 A. Shaw
#67 Lowry
#39 Gibson
#47 Nieto
#160 Manson

Who should have we drafted instead of #21, #24 and #61? I mean, the margin for error looks very very thin

As of right now, Ottawa drafted the 6th, 19th and 28th best scorer in this draft. I mean, just from a production standpoint this sounds like a way above average draft haul

Great comeback.

 

[bert]

I dont think id trade Kleven for Grieg so I went with him.

 

[Xspyrit]

Great comeback.

I never liked how some people use the "we should have drafted this kid" argument because it only works with prospects who were on the radar for that spot. For example, can't say we should have drafted Kucherov with the #21 pick... He was drafted late in the 2nd round for a reason

At #21 and #24, who did we miss on? Probably Rakell, Jenner, Danault, Namestnikov, Mayfield and maybe Gibson? Like I said, its not like there was a ton of great choices for that pick range and probably a few of them would have been seen as a reach

This argument will only work when you're picking Tyler Boucher over Chaz Lucius, Cole Sillinger, Jesper Wallstedt , Matthew Coronato or Fabian Lysell. Prospects that were on the radar for that spot (based on consolidated rankings)

 

[Agent Zub]

This is Carolinas prospects.

F: Suzuki, Koivunen, Rees, Nadeau, Nybeck, Ponomarev, Gunler, Lucius, Trikozov, Blake, Unger Sorum, Perron, Gulistov, Perevalov, Rykov, Pashin, Slepets, Tieksola, Robidas, Mkukhanov

D: Nikishin, Heimosalmi, Seeley, Morrow, Honka, Grudinin, Forsmarck, Fensore, Pelevin

G: Khazeyev, Hamrla, Quapp, Vondras

Pretty crazy to compare to ours. Which team has been tanking for 6 years here?

 

[BondraTime]

This is Carolinas prospects.

F: Suzuki, Koivunen, Rees, Nadeau, Nybeck, Ponomarev, Gunler, Lucius, Trikozov, Blake, Unger Sorum, Perron, Gulistov, Perevalov, Rykov, Pashin, Slepets, Tieksola, Robidas, Mkukhanov

D: Nikishin, Heimosalmi, Seeley, Morrow, Honka, Grudinin, Forsmarck, Fensore, Pelevin

G: Khazeyev, Hamrla, Quapp, Vondras

Pretty crazy to compare to ours. Which team has been tanking for 6 years here?

Only real good prospect is Nikishin, and then guys that every team has in their system.

For a team that everyone seems to fall in love with their drafting, likely because they trade down adding a ton of Europeans, they have drafted 2 guys outside the top 13 since 2015 who’s become an NHL regular in Luostarinen and Geekie.

They’ve done no better than any other team, but they’ve chosen a ton of skilled Euros that everyone loves.

 

[Hale The Villain]

This is Carolinas prospects.

F: Suzuki, Koivunen, Rees, Nadeau, Nybeck, Ponomarev, Gunler, Lucius, Trikozov, Blake, Unger Sorum, Perron, Gulistov, Perevalov, Rykov, Pashin, Slepets, Tieksola, Robidas, Mkukhanov

D: Nikishin, Heimosalmi, Seeley, Morrow, Honka, Grudinin, Forsmarck, Fensore, Pelevin

G: Khazeyev, Hamrla, Quapp, Vondras

Pretty crazy to compare to ours. Which team has been tanking for 6 years here?

The Canes draft philosophy has basically been the exact opposite from the Sens under Trent Mann.

I love the way they draft on day 2, particularly in rounds 3-7.

Once you get to the point where it's highly unlikely you're going to be drafting future NHLers, might as well throws darts at the board on high skill high IQ players (relative to the alternatives of course).

They do take it a little to far though. If you're going to draft some small skill players in the late rounds, you can afford to draft more projectable players in the first couple rounds.

Don't want all your picks to be small offensive players, but you also want some upside in the draft.

There's a nice healthy middle. Somewhere between Toronto under Dubas and Toronto under Burke is a good place to be.

 

[Golden_Jet]

This is Carolinas prospects.

F: Suzuki, Koivunen, Rees, Nadeau, Nybeck, Ponomarev, Gunler, Lucius, Trikozov, Blake, Unger Sorum, Perron, Gulistov, Perevalov, Rykov, Pashin, Slepets, Tieksola, Robidas, Mkukhanov

D: Nikishin, Heimosalmi, Seeley, Morrow, Honka, Grudinin, Forsmarck, Fensore, Pelevin

G: Khazeyev, Hamrla, Quapp, Vondras

Pretty crazy to compare to ours. Which team has been tanking for 6 years here?

Nikishikin sure, like him,
Rest, how many of those 33 you have a good opinion on?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Only real good prospect is Nikishin, and then guys that every team has in their system.

For a team that everyone seems to fall in love with their drafting, likely because they trade down adding a ton of Europeans, they have drafted 2 guys outside the top 13 since 2015 who’s become an NHL regular in Luostarinen and Geekie.

They’ve done no better than any other team, but they’ve chosen a ton of skilled Euros that everyone loves.

There's been a distinct change in their drafting philosophy starting in 2019. Wouldn't focus much on Carolina's track record from before that time.

Sort of like how our philosophy changed when Mann decided to go full Burke and focus almost entirely on players with tools and toughness. Wouldn't focus much on Carolina's track record from before that time.

All of the prospects he listed were drafted from 2019-2023, none of which were drafted higher than 28th OVR, so it's not exactly shocking they haven't produced a lot of NHL regulars yet.

I'd bet on Nikishin, Rees, Ponomarev, Seeley, Morrow, Koivunen, Blake and Heimosalmi having an above-average chance of becoming NHLers in some capacity. Jury is still out on the 2022 and 2023 drafts.

 

[Xspyrit]

Agent Zub, did you bring this to the board's attention after seeing this thread?

Carolina - 50 picks since 2019

How Carolina compares to a sample of how other successful teams approached it after making the playoffs the first time: Team Years R1 R2 R3 SUM R4 R5 R6 R7 SUM TOTAL Pittsburgh 07-11 4 3 4 11 5 6 6 2 19 30 Boston 08-12 5 4 4 13 4 4 5 5 18 31 Washington 08-12 6 3 3 12 6 5 5 6 22 34...

forums.hfboards.com

I mean, you need crazy good asset management to do this. What is impressive is that they do this while being a top team year after year. You need to value every single pick like it's part of your future wealth

2 ECF and 2 second rounds in the last 5 years, 3rd in P% overall in the NHL since 2018-19

They are drafting late every year so it's not like they're going to have some Tkachuks, Stutzles or Sandersons but with sheer volume, they are hoping to find talent and extend their contending window as much as possible, which is exactly what some of use have been talking about with this stupid "asset management"

 

[Agent Zub]

Nikishikin sure, like him,
Rest, how many of those 33 you have a good opinion on?

not too many but enough to know their depth blows ours out of the water. and they are the 100 point team, while we are the tankers. makes no sense.

Only real good prospect is Nikishin, and then guys that every team has in their system.

For a team that everyone seems to fall in love with their drafting, likely because they trade down adding a ton of Europeans, they have drafted 2 guys outside the top 13 since 2015 who’s become an NHL regular in Luostarinen and Geekie.

They’ve done no better than any other team, but they’ve chosen a ton of skilled Euros that everyone loves.

yes but even if all but 2 of their 33 bust, they still might walk away with two stars because a lot of these guys have high upside.

vs us I mean we all love Greig and Kleven but is anyone actually projecting either as stars? and after that who do we have that has star potential Jarventie, Ostapchuck?

I wanna be optimistic but all of these guys scream middle six players. Rather have a prospect pool that also goes for the potential Kucherovs, Ahos and Points as well. Which imo is what Carolina is doing, they have a lot of shots and finding a star in their pool. they know you can get bottom and middle sixers 1000 different ways.

 

[bert]

The Canes draft philosophy has basically been the exact opposite from the Sens under Trent Mann.

I love the way they draft on day 2, particularly in rounds 3-7.

Once you get to the point where it's highly unlikely you're going to be drafting future NHLers, might as well throws darts at the board on high skill high IQ players (relative to the alternatives of course).

They do take it a little to far though. If you're going to draft some small skill players in the late rounds, you can afford to draft more projectable players in the first couple rounds.

Don't want all your picks to be small offensive players, but you also want some upside in the draft.

There's a nice healthy middle. Somewhere between Toronto under Dubas and Toronto under Burke is a good place to be.

Drafting like the leafs is where you want to be?.... uhhh You arent serious are you? The sens have drafted so much better than them in this time period.