Sens Arena in Lebreton Flats

[Cosmix]

I mean the LRT won't go west past Bayview for a long time. So the LRT would essentially start at Lebreton and only go East

Ok. Thanks. I looked up the Confederation Line on the web. The info states that the line will extend from Blair in the east end to Tunney's Pasture in the west by 2018. By 2023, the line is to be extended to Place D'Orleans in the east and to Bayshore SC in the west. The Lebreton station is to be labelled Pimisi Station (Algonquin name i believe). It may take as long as H freezing over to be extended to the CTC.

 

[Larionov]

- The CTC has already been supposedly estimated to need between $200M- $300M in repairs in the coming years. This is also a BIG deal, and there will be no public money to offset these costs for Melynk. A new world class arena could be done for less than $500M most likely, and would obviously have local and provincial money available for the development.

I seriously question that $200 million to $300 million figure, and would be interested in knowing where that came from. The CTC is structurally sound and has had a number of upgrades in recent years. Other than Melnyk's vision of knocking out some 200 level suites to create those viewing plazas, it's difficult to think of what else would need this level of investment.

I'm also far from certain that there would be much in the way of local or provincial money. The City is fresh off the Lansdowne redevelopment and is now focused on LRT - hard to see where they would find the money. That goes double for the provincial government, who would rightly be worried that other Ontario cities would instantly be lined up for their "fair share".

There may well come a day when a move downtown is considered, but I think we are at least a decade away from even starting that discussion...

 

[SenzZen]

Pretty sure the contract with OSEG nixed any competing venues within a certain distance of Lansdowne- which Lebreton would almost certainly be within.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

People are far more likely to bus (or OTrain) to Lebreton than Kanata. Lot's of people are willing to hop a quick bus downtown than go from the East end to Kanata by bus (not to mention there are far more bus options). Also, Traffic wouldn't all be going the same direction when leaving.

Living in the middle of Prescott-Russell, when I go into Ottawa, it's usually either to Place d'Orleans, Gloucester Centre or St Laurant. Big malls to get whatever, and lots of parking near the highway. I haven't been on an OC Transpo bus in 15+ years, and never stepped on an OTrain. Getting to CTC is a pain with the slowdowns on the 417, but it's definitely doable.

So, I have to ask....what's the capacity of those OTrains? How do they compare to the current bus setup to CTC? Will that OTrain (10 years down the line or whatever) have a stop at Place d'Orleans?

Seems Lebreton Flats is a looooong way from the highway, which creeps me out a bit. The concept of driving down areas downtown like Bank Street give me nightmares.

If the OTrain really had the capacity to make it a simple trip, it sounds promising, but it's kinda hard to grab in my brain never having used the system.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Pretty sure the contract with OSEG nixed any competing venues within a certain distance of Lansdowne- which Lebreton would almost certainly be within.

A downtown hockey arena is not a competitor to an outdoor football stadium.

 

[SenzZen]

A downtown hockey arena is not a competitor to an outdoor football stadium.

There's a rink there, eh?

 

[BankStreetParade]

There's a rink there, eh?

Oh yeah a 6500 seat major junior arena is definitely on the level of a 20000 seat nhl arena, and vice versa.

 

[Big Papi]

I seriously question that $200 million to $300 million figure, and would be interested in knowing where that came from. The CTC is structurally sound and has had a number of upgrades in recent years. Other than Melnyk's vision of knocking out some 200 level suites to create those viewing plazas, it's difficult to think of what else would need this level of investment.

I'm also far from certain that there would be much in the way of local or provincial money. The City is fresh off the Lansdowne redevelopment and is now focused on LRT - hard to see where they would find the money. That goes double for the provincial government, who would rightly be worried that other Ontario cities would instantly be lined up for their "fair share".

There may well come a day when a move downtown is considered, but I think we are at least a decade away from even starting that discussion...

Not sure where the 200-300 mil is in regards to, but I guess addition upgrades, replacing things that have outlived their lifespan (a/c, heater, piping, elevators, roof, etc)....would be a part of it?

 

[Rals]

Where would the casino be built?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Where would the casino be built?

.......oooooo, didn't even think about that.

Melynk snuggling up at Lebreton might make it easier for him to sneak in and get a handful of gaming machines or something similar, as well.

Didn't OLC already approve some gaming slots for Lebreton? Or am I thinking somewhere else?

 

[SenzZen]

Oh yeah a 6500 seat major junior arena is definitely on the level of a 20000 seat nhl arena, and vice versa.

I don't really care what you want to make of it, but I strongly doubt the language in the contract was just to prevent another CFL or OHL team from setting up shop next door.

 

[pepty]

This would be fantastic, a game changer.

The idea I suppose would be to rely much more on transit
both LRT and buses, and even walk ups or biking from
people who are downtown or across the bridge..

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

I seriously question that $200 million to $300 million figure, and would be interested in knowing where that came from. The CTC is structurally sound and has had a number of upgrades in recent years. Other than Melnyk's vision of knocking out some 200 level suites to create those viewing plazas, it's difficult to think of what else would need this level of investment.

I'm also far from certain that there would be much in the way of local or provincial money. The City is fresh off the Lansdowne redevelopment and is now focused on LRT - hard to see where they would find the money. That goes double for the provincial government, who would rightly be worried that other Ontario cities would instantly be lined up for their "fair share".

There may well come a day when a move downtown is considered, but I think we are at least a decade away from even starting that discussion...

These buildings have a lifetime of 30 years, so after 30 years I guess there are substantial overhauls that need to take place, before things go awry. Think of what happened to the Big O in Montreal. 25 years after being built, in '91, support beams fell and a 50+ ton of concrete fell onto an exterior walkway. Problems continued for the next 15 years with the place, before finally being torn down. Even during the final years of the Expos - less than 30 years after being built - it was covered with grime and was a joke league wide. And that has nothing to do with the nature of the new arenas, which are much different now too. Basically it's a disadvantage for the team now, and will be a bigger one from a revenue and entertainment perspective in 10 years.

And Landsdowne wouldn't impact Lebreton, unless it turns into a big money loser for the city, making the support of another (but very different) type of sports complex politically problematic. Possible.

And LRT comes from a totally different municipal and provincial budget than capital investment in a major multi-use sports complex. Doesn't mean the money will be there of course, but one doesn't have much to do with the other. And while the NCC can be difficult to work with, they also carry a lot of weight and have substantial federal $'s to add to whatever the city and province might pony up, although the land itself will be a big concession presuming they do some kind of 30 year lease at super cheap (so the owner of the stadium wouldn't own the land, just the building, and they'd get a super long cheap lease on the land - presuming the NCC approves the plan).

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

That seems so crazy to me. Spend 150-400 million on a new sports building, only to have it last 30 years. Seems like such a freaking waste. Then again, seems everything these days is build to break down and fail quickly *devil stare at 6-year-old car*. Doesn't feel right.

 

[starling]

So, I have to ask....what's the capacity of those OTrains? How do they compare to the current bus setup to CTC? Will that OTrain (10 years down the line or whatever) have a stop at Place d'Orleans?

Seems Lebreton Flats is a looooong way from the highway, which creeps me out a bit. The concept of driving down areas downtown like Bank Street give me nightmares.

If the OTrain really had the capacity to make it a simple trip, it sounds promising, but it's kinda hard to grab in my brain never having used the system.

New O-Train LRT should be able to move about 20000 passengers per hour in one direction. Trains run every 4 minutes. Riding LRT is much more convenient and easier than OCTranspo, especially if you don't do that often.

Arena downtown should be great for LRT and City too - with concerts and games almost every day it will bring lots of people downtown and make it more lively and less dead in the evening.

 

[FuriousSenator]

Everyone has an agenda. As a Barrhavener I am content with the location of the Palladium. Realistically I do not see it moving anytime soon.


Logistically it would be a nightmare. Redblacks games have proven to me that Ottawa's downtown infrastructure is not suited to support stadiums and big venues. The parking at Palladium can handle full capacity, which is a huge plus for those of us who prefer to come and go on our own terms and not on the bus shuttles.

Every single possible report whether official or anecdotal has indicated that the traffic plan for Lansdowne has been an unequivocal success. A future Sens building at Lebreton will also benefit from LRT access unlike Lansdowne and will have a smaller capacity.

Frankly as it stands now the only time I bother making the horrendous trek out to Kanata is if the game is mega important or playoffs. Too much damn trouble otherwise and the lack of walkable amenities like you have at Lansdowne (bars etc...) makes it even worse.

 

[salomonster]

Love the idea, it would correct what should never have happened.

Makes sense from a public transit stand point.
Makes sense from city density stand point.
Orleans, Gatineau, Ottawa South, Kanata public roads stand point.

It would give new life to the downtown area, the Sparks street area, the Market...

The challenge though:

NCC
The City
Eugene

All working together... lol good luck with that.

I hope it happens but...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

New O-Train LRT should be able to move about 20000 passengers per hour in one direction. Trains run every 4 minutes. Riding LRT is much more convenient and easier than OCTranspo, especially if you don't do that often.

Arena downtown should be great for LRT and City too - with concerts and games almost every day it will bring lots of people downtown and make it more lively and less dead in the evening.

So better capacity than buses. Definitely a huge plus for a downtown arena. No way buses alone could handle the capacity of an NHL game efficiently...especially int he congested core in Ottawa.

That's the big problem with Ottawa. Our downtown core is essentially in the central-north of the city. Most landlocked cities have a true central core. Instead of having 4 solid directions away from a major downtown attraction, it's basically 3. There are fans and consumers in Gatineau of course, but it's a little bit different having to cross a border to a different province and sightly different culture and language preference and all that. Gatineau is pretty well self contained, with the majority of cross border traffic centered around the workplace.

 

[thinkwild]

A 30 yr lifespan for these arenas seems questionable to me too as does CTC becoming a shopping mall. Maybe they could convert it to a casino

Madison Square Gardens, the old Montreal Forum and Maple Leafs Gardens? Arenas cant last as long as shopping centres, condos, airports, or hotels? Perhaps they mean their ability to deduct depreciation expenses has ended by then and the risk of obsolescence grows larger? Of course part of owning any house is that the roof, furnace, and driveway will all eventually need attention and money spent on them. For business, thats why we let them deduct depreciation expenses.

If Ottawa had a large city transportation infrastructure to accommodate a team downtown, then i guess it might make us an eco-friendlier city to encourage the overwhelming majority of fans to arrive at the game on public transit rather than in our own cars, but im unconvinced it will have a drastic effect on the Sens season ticket base which is still a function of the business environment and price sensitive to the teams fortunes, unlike the leafs tickets which dont drop when the team is no good. It might help a little with walk up crowds, but in mid winter, getting from downtown to Lebreton flats for a game is unlikely to be a casual walk.

And although i've never personally thought i dont want to go to the game because it is too far, as going to a game is usually a special event or a night out and we dont care on those nights, nor did anyone care when the Sens were doing great, but I have sometimes lazily thought that id prefer to watch the game in my man cave and i cant see that changing just cause i get to take a bus downtown now instead of driving out and taking 45 mins to an hour as if we were in a big city.

Will they have finished paying off the Kanata interchange by then? I guess we've had a few years testing the toxicity of the site now with all the bluesfests there and no 3rd eyes growing on anyone yet.

I guess if it was to happen it would be as part of a mega structure, downtown revitalization effort like the phoenix arena, or the Lighthouse in Long Island proposal, or Columbus. Hard to see that as within the vision of those who built a war museum on one side and the american embassy on the other. Melnyk should have no problem getting financing for that eh?

 

[Golden_Jet]

1) NCC comes to the party 18-20 years too late.

2) We don't need 200-300 million in repairs in a few years, thats why Melnyk spends 5 -10 million in upgrades here and there. Doing 10 million this year. That happens, and will happen in a new building after 5 -8 years.

3)NCC still owns the land we have to lease it. Probably a non starter.

4) WHO is going to pay at minimum.... half billion dollars to build it, not Melynk, not the city , province or feds.
http://www.macleans.ca/authors/amanda-shendruk/the-20-most-expensive-nhl-arenas/

5) We have a great building.

6) NCC says bids close this December.

Nice idea but lets be realistic this is not happening.

 

[Boud]

Excellent point. I live in Gatineau and it would only be a 15 minutes drive from home. Normally if I want to go to a game I have to plan ahead and leave home 2 hours before because of the traffic and the location of CTC. I will go to a lot more games if I it happens!

People who live in Gatineau and work in Ottawa ( thats a lot of people) will have fun going back home on game nights...

Edit: everybody seems to forget the price that will cost to buy the land.

 

[Alfieghetti]

wow a lot of people that think this wouldn't be a huge improvement in every way. Still a sad minority, on the bright side.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

Would be the best thing to happen to this franchise since Alfredsson

 

[Golden_Jet]

wow a lot of clueless dorks that think this wouldn't be a huge improvement in every way. Still a sad minority, on the bright side.

I think a lot of people like the location, but this clueless dork wants to know who is forking over 500 million dollars plus to build a new building and you you still have to pay a yearly lease to the NCC. Just being realistic.

 

[Alfieghetti]

it would be a partnership of some kind, i'd assume. multiple capital sources.