Sens Arena in Lebreton Flats

[Big Papi]

101 Coloniel By would be my first choice.... right inbetween the two liveliest districts in ottawa, in the heart of the city....my god, this would be amazing!

 

[Cashin]

I thought the current plan didn't have westbound LRT until 2034 or something like that. Knowing these things never happen early, I'd figure we are still at least 25 years from a LRT that spans the city East-West, North-South

Edit: Just saw you didn't mention West. Sorry about that.

Might as well be discussing hologram technology replacing the jumbotron.

 

[starling]

I thought the current plan didn't have westbound LRT until 2034 or something like that. Knowing these things never happen early, I'd figure we are still at least 25 years from a LRT that spans the city East-West, North-South

Bayshore-Orleans, Hull-Airport by 2023 last time I checked. That should be enough, I think.

 

[Smash88]

Look at the redblacks games as examples. I'm back home much quicker after red blacks games vs sens games. This saying is overused but its not even close. Like at all. Red blacks games are a joy to leave the game. Sens games is a nightmare and a huge rush with no fun.

I wouldn't say that. Waiting 15 minutes (which is about the average wait at CTC) outside for a yellow school bus to drive you to your car 15 minutes away isn't all that great either.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Please God let this be true.

 

[bert]

With that location you would still be taking stuffed buses. It would take even longer to leave the arena for both cars and buses.

Anybody using a downtown option as a solution to traffic and commute time obviously havent thought very much about trying to drive to Lebreton with 18000 other people.

The LRT will be in full swing by then there will be park and go south, east and west. Its actually an incredible location because the o train intersection with the LRT will be at bayview which is about 200 meters from where the rink would be. That intersect will be the transportation hub of the city.

Others have pointed out that there is no where to park for the Red Blacks games and everyone figures out a way.

If this is a real possibility its something that has to happen. I am skeptical about the CTC being a large mall too be honest. Why would someone go all the way out there unless youre in Kanata when there are other viable options like bayshore Rideau etc.

 

[jbeck5]

I wouldn't say that. Waiting 15 minutes (which is about the average wait at CTC) outside for a yellow school bus to drive you to your car 15 minutes away isn't all that great either.

The thing about redblacks games is that they're all weekend games and when you walk out, you have a choice of so many places to grab cheap food or a beer. You can go to the neighbourhood 2 hours before, and 2 hours after and have fun without spending much. You can't do that for Sens games which kills game day experiences.

I've gone to 4 rb games. I park a 4 minute busride away. I leave the game, go buy 2.50 dollar slice of pizza, or a 5$ beer somewhere, then walk a few blocks down, grab the half empty bus to my car, then no traffic home.

At sens games there's nothing around so you can't kill 20 minutes then leave with no traffic. So you rush out.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

- The CTC has already been supposedly estimated to need between $200M- $300M in repairs in the coming years. This is also a BIG deal, and there will be no public money to offset these costs for Melynk. A new world class arena could be done for less than $500M most likely, and would obviously have local and provincial money available for the development.

I think its a stretch to say they would obviously have local and provincial money. Its a complicated issue but its often a political dogfight and far from guaranteed.

In the case of these repairs, I really hope they get warm water to wash your hands in the bathrooms. Or at least stop making it so inexplicably cold.


I do hope you are right about Lebreton though, that would be huge for the city and would right a major wrong

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

Only going one way. There will still have to be buses, they would most likely need a setup similar to what the Redblacks are doing.

Depends on how long this takes to happen. Remember that the first dump trucks of contaminated soil were carried off the flats twelve years ago, so this is, and continues to be, a slow process. Phase 2 of the LRT (connections to Baseline and Bayshore) are supposed to be up and running in nine years. The CTC is only 18 years old and still has a lot of years left in it, the money isn't there to build a new arena now, and the wheels move slowly when dealing with so many stakeholders (the city, the NCC, Sens brass, neighbourhood associations, etc.). This is only the first step in a very long process that could easily take a decade before the Sens are playing downtown, by which point there will be significant westward expansion of the LRT.

 

[jbeck5]

Mendes on tsn1200 saying ncc is open to a stadium being built at lebreton flats. If that changes anything.

 

[bert]

Mendes on tsn1200 saying ncc is open to a stadium being built at lebreton flats. If that changes anything.

It makes too much sense really, I just don't know what they will do with the CTC. If its too much money to renovate it for hockey how much more would it cost to convert to a shopping mall?

 

[Qward]

So 20 years ago they submitted a request to the NCC to build an arena on the Lebreton Flats and the NCC finally agreed to it?
Right on track for Ottawa bureaucracy.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

People are far more likely to bus (or OTrain) to Lebreton than Kanata. Lot's of people are willing to hop a quick bus downtown than go from the East end to Kanata by bus (not to mention there are far more bus options). Also, Traffic wouldn't all be going the same direction when leaving.

When you say most fans, do you have any idea what the breakdown of where the existing fanbase orginates by city ward or even larger areas like Nepean, Kanata, Orleans, Old Ottawa, etc?

IMO the problem is regardless of where an arena is located, some fans will feel alienated by distance and/or travel time, thus excluding them.

The location will to a great extent be the deciding factor in defining what the serviceable market size is within the larger Ottawa market.

This means market growth for the team will largely be decided by public transportation improvements regardless of location.

So the discussion really ends up being another NIMBY type debate only this one will be NITBY (Not In There Back Yard).

The fact is there is no simple solution to the problem and the solution is almost totally in the hands of the municipal and provincial government to improve public transit.

To make a case that the a center location is better than one on the edge, is to assume the net is a gain not a loss.

While I completely understand the frustration of fans getting to and from the CTC, can you imagine the traffic heading into the downtown core on game days fight with the traffic trying to get out? It would be a nightmare.

The RedBlacks and the city recognized the road infrastructure can't handle the vehicle volume at the site, so midpoints to collect vehicles, then bus fans was the only solution.

This approach seems to be working fairly well, but when the weather turns cold and damp will people still find the experience quite so pleasant.

I am of the opinion a similar system won't be so readily accepted by hockey fans in Dec-Feb.

That said, it would be most interesting to see where the fanbase that attends games lives in the city.

 

[Quo]

Would be fantastic.

Westward expansion of the LRT will not even have the opportunity to reach CTC until 2048 or some such nonsense IIRC. Worth exploring.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

It makes too much sense really, I just don't know what they will do with the CTC. If its too much money to renovate it for hockey how much more would it cost to convert to a shopping mall?

I would assume it would be fairly costly since the seats and rink cover 70% of the internal area of the structure.

It would probably be cheaper to tear it down and rebuild.

 

[Smash88]

The thing about redblacks games is that they're all weekend games and when you walk out, you have a choice of so many places to grab cheap food or a beer. You can go to the neighbourhood 2 hours before, and 2 hours after and have fun without spending much. You can't do that for Sens games which kills game day experiences.

I've gone to 4 rb games. I park a 4 minute busride away. I leave the game, go buy 2.50 dollar slice of pizza, or a 5$ beer somewhere, then walk a few blocks down, grab the half empty bus to my car, then no traffic home.

At sens games there's nothing around so you can't kill 20 minutes then leave with no traffic. So you rush out.

Yeah you do have more options at the Redblacks games, but I still find majority of the people head straight for the bus. It's a similar wait time. Now depending where you have to drive after changes everything.

Me being in Kanata makes it easy for Sens games and harder for Redblacks games, now I realize I'm in a minority so it doesn't bug me too much.

 

[H2O]

While I completely understand the frustration of fans getting to and from the CTC, can you imagine the traffic heading into the downtown core on game days fight with the traffic trying to get out? It would be a nightmare.

I live downtown and work in Kanata. I rarely have to face traffic during rush hour, not affected by people trying to get out of downtown at all. Besides, by 6PM rush hour is pretty much over.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

The thing about redblacks games is that they're all weekend games and when you walk out, you have a choice of so many places to grab cheap food or a beer. You can go to the neighbourhood 2 hours before, and 2 hours after and have fun without spending much. You can't do that for Sens games which kills game day experiences.

I've gone to 4 rb games. I park a 4 minute busride away. I leave the game, go buy 2.50 dollar slice of pizza, or a 5$ beer somewhere, then walk a few blocks down, grab the half empty bus to my car, then no traffic home.

At sens games there's nothing around so you can't kill 20 minutes then leave with no traffic. So you rush out.

Can't disagree with your points, but you are talking about two completely different times of the year.

When it 10 below, or worse, I'm not looking to wander anywhere when I leave the CTC, I'm looking to get out of the cold as quickly as possible.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I live downtown and work in Kanata. I rarely have to face traffic during rush hour, not affected by people trying to get out of downtown at all. Besides, by 6PM rush hour is pretty much over.

Wait until 10K people join you and some of the crowd from downtown doesn't leave.

 

[Cosmix]

Only going one way. There will still have to be buses, they would most likely need a setup similar to what the Redblacks are doing.

Why one way for LRT?

Did they not plan to run the two tracks side by side?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Bayshore-Orleans, Hull-Airport by 2023 last time I checked. That should be enough, I think.

One caveat, only the Ontario Gov't has agreed to Watson's plan and they have no money.

The plan doesn't include Hull or the airport.

 

[Smash88]

Why one way for LRT?

Did they not plan to run the two tracks side by side?

I mean the LRT won't go west past Bayview for a long time. So the LRT would essentially start at Lebreton and only go East

 

[Micklebot]

Wait until 10K people join you and some of the crowd from downtown doesn't leave.

I think the point he was making was that by 6 pm, commuters like him will be home, so the for 10k start heading to the arena, it will be similar to a second rush hour.

With Kanata, the 10k are mostly coming from the same place (varying degrees of east of Kanata) at the same time, where as with Lebreton, or any other central location, people would be coming from all directions (well, two directions anyways). Instead of having 90% of the group coming from the same side, you have closer to a 50/50 split that doesn't compete with the vast majority of people going home form work.

 

[starling]

One caveat, only the Ontario Gov't has agreed to Watson's plan and they have no money.

The plan doesn't include Hull or the airport.

Phase 1(black) is funded already. Phase 2(red) not yet, but discussion over arena at LF should be another good reason to get it funded.
No Hull, Airport link possible though.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Just to clarify, the $200M-$300M+ in repairs to CTC are not immediate, but what is projected over the next 10 years, basically if the team wants to stay there beyond the 30 year life of the building, which will be 10 years from now. So if Melynk has to spend $250M to repair the CTC and still own an old building, or if he can spend around the same (or perhaps a bit more) and get a brand new state of the art stadium, which do you think he would prefer? Especially if he can sell the CTC land and building and pocket that money, or use it towards the new arena?

By 2025, The Isles development will be done behind the war museum, with 4,000 people living there, and 4,000 people working there, and a ton of retail parking. there will also be a half dozen other Condo's within a stone's throw of the building, not to mention Parliament Hill and downtown works who could often walk to the new arena. Right now, there are no condos or major office buildings people can walk from to CTC. Basically, you would have ~50,000 people who either work or live right near could walk to the new building.

The other point re the proximity to Bayview Yards (another development hub for the city) and LRT's main station there, make this even more appealing to the urban planners and the local politicians.

Finally, being right across the bridge, the city of Gatineau would now have a lot easier access to games.

This isn't immediate, but something that will gain momentum over the next 5 years. It can easily fall off the rails, but there is a lot of reasons to think it will happen.