GDT: Season Game 1: Red Wings at Devils 7:30 pm et 10/12/23 espn+

[cvaicunas]

Continue to push your agenda and disregard the fact that this team looked good last night and better than last year and if not for (questionable) penalties could have easily beat a very good NJ team.

Yea they were noticeably better at handling NJs speed and skill in transition. Last year this game gets ugly, this year (sample size 1 game anyways), they did a better job of controlling play and negating NJs strengths with better passing and team play.

 

[Frk It]

Yea they were noticeably better at handling NJs speed and skill in transition. Last year this game gets ugly, this year (sample size 1 game anyways), they did a better job of controlling play and negating NJs strengths with better passing and team play.

Yeah I don’t know, it’s all perspective I guess.

I think this team looks better and has potential to also get younger by the end of the year and by the start of next year.

I liked what I saw from the team last night. I think Raymond should have found a way to bury one last night, hope he will moving forward. I’d like to see us try different defensive pairings, but I have a feeling they are trying to prop up Chiarot so they can move him at the deadline. Would much prefer to see Maatta or Edvinsson in his place. Everything else I thought looked pretty good.

 

[ricky0034]

I think you need to take a look at the math behind the Wings average age. There's the ages of the Wings players generally considered the core and future of the team (young), then there's the ages of the signings who will be gone in a few years (old).

Perron, Petry and Reimer are all 35. Chiarot is 32. Will they be devastating losses to the team when they're no longer on the roster?

well yeah a simple list of the average age of the team isn't really gonna have any nuance which honestly was what I was getting at to begin with with my Vegas comment in response to someone using it as an argument

I do find it funny saying guys like Petry and Chiarot won't be big losses in a discussion about age when the Wings themselves are currently valuing those guys above the 20 year old Edvinsson though

 

[cvaicunas]

other teams have prospects too

There is massive difference in say, Boston which you brought up in comparison, and the Wings prospect pool. If you can't see that the Wings have a far deeper and better system than Boston than you have indeed lost the plot. Yes all teams have "prospects", most teams don't have 90 percent of their potential future still in the pipeline. I mean right now at the NHL level we have Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Dcat that could be considered 'core' pieces. And truthfully adding Dcat there is kind of pushing it in my opinion.

 

[Ezekial]

well yeah a simple list of the average age of the team isn't really gonna have any nuance which honestly was what I was getting at to begin with with my Vegas comment in response to someone using it as an argument

I do find it funny saying guys like Petry and Chiarot won't be big losses in a discussion about age when the Wings themselves are currently valuing those guys above the 20 year old Edvinsson though

Again, terrible faith argument.

 

[cvaicunas]

Yeah I don’t know, it’s all perspective I guess.

I think this team looks better and has potential to also get younger by the end of the year and by the start of next year.

I liked what I saw from the team last night. I think Raymond should have found a way to bury one last night, hope he will moving forward. I’d like to see us try different defensive pairings, but I have a feeling they are trying to prop up Chiarot so they can move him at the deadline. Would much prefer to see Maatta or Edvinsson in his place. Everything else I thought looked pretty good.

Yea, I of course am not proper judge of an hockey, but that first period looked real solid to me.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yea they were noticeably better at handling NJs speed and skill in transition. Last year this game gets ugly, this year (sample size 1 game anyways), they did a better job of controlling play and negating NJs strengths with better passing and team play.

The first 30 minutes of the game were encouraging here. Detroit played fast and physical and forced NJ to the outside. It was when the refs stepped in and were whistling down everything against Detroit that the team's speed and physicality stopped, and that's when NJD really started to take control.

f*** game management and f*** whoever those officials were. Call it clean and down the middle and Detroit probably walks away with a W.

well yeah a simple list of the average age of the team isn't really gonna have any nuance which honestly was what I was getting at to begin with with my Vegas comment in response to someone using it as an argument

I do find it funny saying guys like Petry and Chiarot won't be big losses in a discussion about age when the Wings themselves are currently valuing those guys above the 20 year old Edvinsson though

Oh man...now you've gone full MBH. Never go full MBH.

 

[Ezekial]

The first 30 minutes of the game were encouraging here. Detroit played fast and physical and forced NJ to the outside. It was when the refs stepped in and were whistling down everything against Detroit that the team's speed and physicality stopped, and that's when NJD really started to take control.

f*** game management and f*** whoever those officials were. Call it clean and down the middle and Detroit probably walks away with a W.

Couldn't bury one to start the game either, that Raymond fan on the open net is still haunting him this morning I imagine.

 

[RedWingzz]

Continue to push your agenda and disregard the fact that this team looked good last night and better than last year and if not for (questionable) penalties could have easily beat a very good NJ team.

Could haves don't help you make the playoffs, actual points do.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

well yeah a simple list of the average age of the team isn't really gonna have any nuance which honestly was what I was getting at to begin with with my Vegas comment in response to someone using it as an argument

I do find it funny saying guys like Petry and Chiarot won't be big losses in a discussion about age when the Wings themselves are currently valuing those guys above the 20 year old Edvinsson though

Ah. So the subtext of the post is it's more crying about Edvinsson.

Using the current roster decision to say the Wings value those players more than Ed is faulty logic. No one is putting a gun to their head and saying pick one. It's not an either or situation.

Edvinsson is a 20 year old Dman, by no means overripe. And to start the season he's in Grand Rapids where he'll play big minutes. Either thru injury or performance I'm guessing he'll be up replacing Petry, Chiarot or Ghost at some point.

But this topic has also been beat to death.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I just watched the highlights. I think we looked like the better team for the first half of the game. More shots on goal, better quality scoring chances, etc. New Jersey has great scoring depth and they were able to turn it on late in the game to get the win, but overall I was happy with our performance. We'll see how we look over the next few games but I thought this was an encouraging start.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Couldn't bury one to start the game either, that Raymond fan on the open net is still haunting him this morning I imagine.

And 2 dings that dented the goalposts by Sprong and Kostin. But those chances happened by the players being in the right places to begin with.

It's just the first game. If Detroit plays like that more often than not they're making the playoffs.

 

[ricky0034]

There is massive difference in say, Boston which you brought up in comparison, and the Wings prospect pool. If you can't see that the Wings have a far deeper and better system than Boston than you have indeed lost the plot. Yes all teams have "prospects", most teams don't have 90 percent of their potential future still in the pipeline. I mean right now at the NHL level we have Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Dcat that could be considered 'core' pieces. And truthfully adding Dcat there is kind of pushing it in my opinion.

yeah I mostly just meant that that average age thing isn't a static target and other teams numbers can go down too even if as you said in some cases there isn't quite as much potential movement

honestly though something that's been bumming me out a bit lately is i'm starting to think that there's a bit of a gap between how the Wings view their prospect pool and how others do, actions speak louder than words and at a certain point if they keep not wanting to play them it's like....how high are they really on these guys you know?

 

[Detroit Knights]

The first period.


The second period.


Lots of things to continue to work on. I know he's young and I'm not concerned, but I'd like to see Mo take another step this year, at least in the consistency department. Not a good game from him at all.

Mo didn't play terrible. Not much he could have done with the hughes goal. He kept him to the outside with no path towards the net. Husso just decided to leave the bank open and hughes cashed in.

Lalonde said it himself, that second period hurt because the tempo we had left. sad.

Not overly upset at the game though. They saw in the second they were not playing well and lalonde mostly corrected it in intermission. They are a high flying offense that we were able to keep them at bay for 2/3rds of the game. I was hoping for that 2-1 win but still knew that it was going to be closer to them winning. We were just able to keep it close. Imagine if we didn't have those guys that could shoot to make it interesting? Those posts don't happen, dbc goal never happens, and we are stuck in our zone for most of the game.

Some negatives, but a good couple positives to look at.

 

[Detroit Knights]

my takeaways

-we need sprong's shooting more when possible. making designed plays for him would be perfect
-seider didn't have the best game but wasn't the worst. I don't think he was out of position that much
-the lost weight from perron is showing to be helpful, i may have been wrong (reluctantly admitting)
-compher was very solid. great timely faceoff wins...that 62% FO% was preeeeeetty nice to see
-not sure if we would have had someone make DBC's goal last year, probably would have been perron shooting it wide and over the net. nice shot picking that corner
-Husso was extremely good. the second hughes goal he should want back, not sure if it hit something
-Our top 3 centers had 61%, 62%, 54% FO%....I think we should be extremely happy with that
-Petry's penalties were not very good. His last one pissed me off, but it did seem like he barely touched him but the player was off balance, so it looked a lot worse
-Lazar was a little bit of a cu** huh?
-Perron's second penalty was a disgusting call...how do you call that??
-Great shot by Kostin, that could have been the difference that early in the game tbh

Overall, I'd be lying if I said I am unhappy with the effort. We were two goals down with 4 minutes left and they still went for it when they could have just "looked" like they were trying like last year, but end up losing 5-2 instead of 4-3, so there's that. We got some goal scorers on this team that look like they are trying to score goals...i know, sounds weird, but we have had goal scorers before that try to pass first (datsyuk...but he at least knew how to pass too). Wish we came out with the win, but pretty sure we all had an "L" next to this game. I think we give TBL a run for their money though. I actually like our chances and lean towards a real W in that one and not OTL or OTW.

Cheers to the new season boys.

 

[Frk It]

other teams have prospects too

The teams you are comparing us to don’t have as many players on the brink and will contiune to get older while we get younger.

Basically you are chucking context right out the window.

 

[cvaicunas]

The first 30 minutes of the game were encouraging here. Detroit played fast and physical and forced NJ to the outside. It was when the refs stepped in and were whistling down everything against Detroit that the team's speed and physicality stopped, and that's when NJD really started to take control.

f*** game management and f*** whoever those officials were. Call it clean and down the middle and Detroit probably walks away with a W.



Oh man...now you've gone full MBH. Never go full MBH.

Certainly not discounting this. The team as a whole lost control of the game at that point. The penalties were still ticky tacky for sure. I would still like the team to hold composure, and adhere to the system at that point. It looked like nerves maybe, but around that time they started making ill advised passes from the defensive zone, allowing NJ to swiftly counter, and they did not have an answer for that. There were numerous ill advised passes, Seider included here, that NJ snuffed out in the neutral zone. At that point they were on their heels for the rest of the period, and Husso held solid for them there.

my takeaways

-we need sprong's shooting more when possible. making designed plays for him would be perfect
-seider didn't have the best game but wasn't the worst. I don't think he was out of position that much
-the lost weight from perron is showing to be helpful, i may have been wrong (reluctantly admitting)
-compher was very solid. great timely faceoff wins...that 62% FO% was preeeeeetty nice to see
-not sure if we would have had someone make DBC's goal last year, probably would have been perron shooting it wide and over the net. nice shot picking that corner
-Husso was extremely good. the second hughes goal he should want back, not sure if it hit something
-Our top 3 centers had 61%, 62%, 54% FO%....I think we should be extremely happy with that
-Petry's penalties were not very good. His last one pissed me off, but it did seem like he barely touched him but the player was off balance, so it looked a lot worse
-Lazar was a little bit of a cu** huh?
-Perron's second penalty was a disgusting call...how do you call that??
-Great shot by Kostin, that could have been the difference that early in the game tbh

Overall, I'd be lying if I said I am unhappy with the effort. We were two goals down with 4 minutes left and they still went for it when they could have just "looked" like they were trying like last year, but end up losing 5-2 instead of 4-3, so there's that. We got some goal scorers on this team that look like they are trying to score goals...i know, sounds weird, but we have had goal scorers before that try to pass first (datsyuk...but he at least knew how to pass too). Wish we came out with the win, but pretty sure we all had an "L" next to this game. I think we give TBL a run for their money though. I actually like our chances and lean towards a real W in that one and not OTL or OTW.

Cheers to the new season boys.

Petry was also responsible for the icing that resulted in the offensive zone faceoff that led to Dougie's go ahead goal. They survived the penalties, but that was the dagger in the heart for Petry's game in my opinion.

 

[cvaicunas]

yeah I mostly just meant that that average age thing isn't a static target and other teams numbers can go down too even if as you said in some cases there isn't quite as much potential movement

honestly though something that's been bumming me out a bit lately is i'm starting to think that there's a bit of a gap between how the Wings view their prospect pool and how others do, actions speak louder than words and at a certain point if they keep not wanting to play them it's like....how high are they really on these guys you know?

Well we do not know what their opinions are, and you have to remember, most of us are going to over estimate the value and potential of our prospects. Sproul and Ouellet anyone? That said, and I have said before, just look at Yzerman's history as a player and GM. I think without a doubt, for better or worse, he would prefer not to rush prospects. He wants a long term window, not one that opens for 3 years. I don't know how old you are, or how long you have been a fan, and that is meant with no judgement. But I started watching the Wings in 95 when I was 7.... And you know what I want, another 25 years of being in the mix to win. And you know who was there for that.... Yzerman. This is not a just the Yzerplannn comment, simply I think he has a reason to want to operate this way, and the way he is leading is going to take time. So be patient friend, we are years from seeing if he was right or wrong.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Fabbs tuned up already?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I don't think we played a full 60, but I liked how we looked for about 35-40 minutes. We are absolutely better than last season but margins are still slim for winning games. I thought we turned over far too many pucks in the neutral zone. I don't love the result but liked a lot of what I saw (especially Compher and Sprong). Also Perron has never been fast. Why are people just now noticing this?

 

[kook10]

my takeaways

-seider didn't have the best game but wasn't the worst. I don't think he was out of position that much

I seem to be in the minority, but I'd much rather see him steered towards being a stay at home defenseman. I don't mind him leading the rush occasionally, but sometimes he stalls the whole team at the offensive blue line. It also worries me that he was looking for breaks and joining the rush without the puck. He seems to get tired later in the game and chases the puck a bit more and is generally all over the place (not in a good way). He is most effective in front of the net and on the blue line. I read it as a lack of discipline and more than a bit of ego (which can be good), but it just might be the bad that comes with the good.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I seem to be in the minority, but I'd much rather see him steered towards being a stay at home defenseman. I don't mind him leading the rush occasionally, but sometimes he stalls the whole team at the offensive blue line. It also worries me that he was looking for breaks and joining the rush without the puck. He seems to get tired later in the game and chases the puck a bit more and is generally all over the place (not in a good way). He is most effective in front of the net and on the blue line. I read it as a lack of discipline and more than a bit of ego (which can be good), but it just might be the bad that comes with the good.

I agree and disagree lol

He would be a great stay at home defenseman, probably best in the league. But his offensive ability is pretty hard to contain. He does have Walman that could do all the offensive work, but Walman has shown that he isn't a bad defensive defenseman when called upon., but they both work in a pretty good tandem of when one joins the rush, the other backs off, vice versa.

I think it would become more of an issue that needs to be fixed if seider and walman are joining in on the rush, leading to more breakaways. As of now (and their pairing history in general) I don't think they jointly join the rush and do a pretty good job at communicating verbal/non vebally.

 

[kook10]

I agree and disagree lol

He would be a great stay at home defenseman, probably best in the league. But his offensive ability is pretty hard to contain. He does have Walman that could do all the offensive work, but Walman has shown that he isn't a bad defensive defenseman when called upon., but they both work in a pretty good tandem of when one joins the rush, the other backs off, vice versa.

I think it would become more of an issue that needs to be fixed if seider and walman are joining in on the rush, leading to more breakaways. As of now (and their pairing history in general) I don't think they jointly join the rush and do a pretty good job at communicating verbal/non vebally.

Well, yes he does get a lot more support from Walman, but he doesn't seem to know how to turn it all on or off. His instincts seems to be hard coded and not situational. So when he gets paired with someone else it's not always great. It can't all be on the other guy though. Hopefully it's still youth and/or coaching and will get better over time.

 

[Frk It]

I seem to be in the minority, but I'd much rather see him steered towards being a stay at home defenseman. I don't mind him leading the rush occasionally, but sometimes he stalls the whole team at the offensive blue line. It also worries me that he was looking for breaks and joining the rush without the puck. He seems to get tired later in the game and chases the puck a bit more and is generally all over the place (not in a good way). He is most effective in front of the net and on the blue line. I read it as a lack of discipline and more than a bit of ego (which can be good), but it just might be the bad that comes with the good.

I don’t think that game last night was representative of his offensive capabilities necessarily. I did see some of the same things you pointed out though.

He absolutely has the skill set to play on a power play and contribute in the offensive zone.

 

[raymond23]

Thoughts from Game 1...

- We lost last night because of two individual plays by Hughes. The "lottery effect"
- Refs sucked big time
- Walman was our only good defenseman, Mo is a slow starter
- $15 mill of mediocre (the second and third d pair)
- The long change is our worst nightmare
- Please get Perron away from Larkin's line

I'm going to the Griffins game tonight!! I'll put my thoughts in that thread afterward