GDT: Season Game 1: Red Wings at Devils 7:30 pm et 10/12/23 espn+
- Thread starter Henkka
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norrisnick
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ricky0034
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JediOrderPizza
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Peter Tosh
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Wouldn’t be surprised if Sprong steals the spot on 1st from Perron this fall
jaster
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This is not a good start to the season, Henkka.
norrisnick
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Henkka
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Why should we need more than 1 extra guy for a 1-game road trip? Next game is at home.
Oddbob
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Henkka
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Detroit Knights
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ugh thank god. I could have sworn it was the 12th. This just through me for a loop
lalonde has said multiple times that he prefers 11x7 on the road for matchup issues it can give to other teams.
Oddbob
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Yes, but teams generally carry the 23 man roster limit even on the road. We have 22 right now.
NickH8
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lilidk
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GreatGordie9
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Henkka
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Henkka
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During last 2 seasons I have been studying that Tampa 11+7 system a bit.
How do they manage the ice-times?
It seemed like they didn't double-shift any forward for too much. Just 1 extra shift for every guy. Saw Alex Killorn having 2 extra shifts on some game data, but not more.
I always expected that they would double-shift their best players Kucherov/Stamkos/Point like mad, but that's not the case. Just 1 extra shift for every guy.
Missing the 12th forward will mean, that you have to have "somebody" playing his missing 10-11 minute role there.
And you have 11 forwards in use. Regular shifts are maybe 55-60 seconds long. There it comes 11 shifts with 55 seconds = 10 minutes. That fills the role.
What Lalonde talked earlier, they noticed at Tampa, how this will impact in a positive way to the roster. With 12 players, players aren't maybe getting enough ice-times. Everyone is ready to play a bit more, and when they play more, they are more intense. It cumulates in a positive way. I don't know who has done this study, but that's what they are talking.
What Lalonde said at last presser, was that this 11+7 system really turned Tampa from already a good team --> to great team. So I expect this same system be implemented to Detroit at some point.
Just imagine, if your 1-2-3 lines are locked, and you have only Kostin and Veleno at 4th line:
Kostin+Veleno pair is taking all their shifts with better player than Christian Fischer.
Frist shift is with Larkin, then with DeBrincat, then with Perron, then with Compher. That's how the game will flow through.
You start with:
DeBrincat - Larkin - Perron
Fabbri - Compher - Raymond
Rasmussen - Copp - Sprong
Then all 4th line combinations through the game flow:
Kostin - Larkin - Veleno
Kostin - Veleno - Perron
Kostin - Veleno - DeBrincat
------ 1st intemission
Kostin - Compher - Veleno
Kostin - Veleno - Fabbri
Kostin - Veleno - Raymond
------- 2nd intermission
Kostin - Copp - Veleno
Kostin - Veleno - Rasmussen
Kostin - Veleno - Sprong
Every combination used at 4th line is better than "normal 4th" as Kostin - Veleno - Fischer.
So, in theory the team is better, because your 4th line is stronger, because you aren't using your worst Top12 forward at all.
Also, everyone of that Top11 will enjoy of getting more ice-time, they have been used to at lower-level leagues before NHL. It cumulates in a positive ways.
How do they manage the ice-times?
It seemed like they didn't double-shift any forward for too much. Just 1 extra shift for every guy. Saw Alex Killorn having 2 extra shifts on some game data, but not more.
I always expected that they would double-shift their best players Kucherov/Stamkos/Point like mad, but that's not the case. Just 1 extra shift for every guy.
Missing the 12th forward will mean, that you have to have "somebody" playing his missing 10-11 minute role there.
And you have 11 forwards in use. Regular shifts are maybe 55-60 seconds long. There it comes 11 shifts with 55 seconds = 10 minutes. That fills the role.
What Lalonde talked earlier, they noticed at Tampa, how this will impact in a positive way to the roster. With 12 players, players aren't maybe getting enough ice-times. Everyone is ready to play a bit more, and when they play more, they are more intense. It cumulates in a positive way. I don't know who has done this study, but that's what they are talking.
What Lalonde said at last presser, was that this 11+7 system really turned Tampa from already a good team --> to great team. So I expect this same system be implemented to Detroit at some point.
Just imagine, if your 1-2-3 lines are locked, and you have only Kostin and Veleno at 4th line:
Kostin+Veleno pair is taking all their shifts with better player than Christian Fischer.
Frist shift is with Larkin, then with DeBrincat, then with Perron, then with Compher. That's how the game will flow through.
You start with:
DeBrincat - Larkin - Perron
Fabbri - Compher - Raymond
Rasmussen - Copp - Sprong
Then all 4th line combinations through the game flow:
Kostin - Larkin - Veleno
Kostin - Veleno - Perron
Kostin - Veleno - DeBrincat
------ 1st intemission
Kostin - Compher - Veleno
Kostin - Veleno - Fabbri
Kostin - Veleno - Raymond
------- 2nd intermission
Kostin - Copp - Veleno
Kostin - Veleno - Rasmussen
Kostin - Veleno - Sprong
Every combination used at 4th line is better than "normal 4th" as Kostin - Veleno - Fischer.
So, in theory the team is better, because your 4th line is stronger, because you aren't using your worst Top12 forward at all.
Also, everyone of that Top11 will enjoy of getting more ice-time, they have been used to at lower-level leagues before NHL. It cumulates in a positive ways.
Last edited:
Henkka
Registered User
Also, at defence, Tampa has been using 4 righties, because they have their best defenceman on the left side. Usually those righties have been average defencemen like Rutta, Bogosian, Foote, Schenn, Shattenkirk etc.
Sergachev and Hedman were carrying them, Just like Lidström did carry all Olaussons, Liljas, Whites and Woolleys on his era at Detroit.
Red Wings defence is already built, like a mirror image, of that Tampa system. RD Seider can handle the high minutes. Could be double-shifted.
Tampa did double-shift mostle Hedman. Sergachev got some shifts after special teams situations, if Hedman had already had a long shift there. But if they rolled many shifts in-a-row 5-on-5, it was only Hedman, who was double-shifted.
This is an example from the past season, not from the current Tampa core:
Hedman LD -- RD Rutta
McDonagh LD - RD Cernak
Hedman LD -- RD Schenn/Foote
Sergachev LD - RD Bogosian
So Hedman went with the worst partners, carrying them. That did give you strength on those pairs and let quality depth on other pairs, in McDonagh and Sergachev.
Red Wings "accidentally" has extra lefties now, as Tampa had extra righties. At some point, they are gonna start double-shifting Seider and going with 7D. For me, it's quite obvious, they are preparing for this. Lalonde is talking about it. He was one of the creators for this at Tampa, and Yzerman has been hoarding the players.
Also Jeff Petry has handled guite high minutes in the past, he can maybe take 1-2 shifts more. But it will mostly be Seider, because he has that natural stamina ability to go for highest minutes, maybe higher than any other NHL defenceman with Makar. We haven't seen that yet, but draft combine reports and some articles about his talent in bicycling athlete, will point on that direction.
So here we go:
Walman LD - RD Seider
Chiarot LD - RD Petry
Määttä LD - RD Seider
Gostisbehere LD - RD Holl
-----------
(Edvinsson LD)
What makes this an effective way of defence, your left side defencemen are always behind the same forward lines. So you are starting to have more 5-man units, like at European hockey. It gives you better chemistries, when the D-pairs aren't changing behind the forward lines all the time. It also cumulates in a positive way.
And also, you double-shift your best defenceman, your best player Moritz Seider. Doesn't sound bad for me.
These things did made Tampa a best contender for a while, until the raising salaries after success did start to eat their cap.
Sergachev and Hedman were carrying them, Just like Lidström did carry all Olaussons, Liljas, Whites and Woolleys on his era at Detroit.
Red Wings defence is already built, like a mirror image, of that Tampa system. RD Seider can handle the high minutes. Could be double-shifted.
Tampa did double-shift mostle Hedman. Sergachev got some shifts after special teams situations, if Hedman had already had a long shift there. But if they rolled many shifts in-a-row 5-on-5, it was only Hedman, who was double-shifted.
This is an example from the past season, not from the current Tampa core:
Hedman LD -- RD Rutta
McDonagh LD - RD Cernak
Hedman LD -- RD Schenn/Foote
Sergachev LD - RD Bogosian
So Hedman went with the worst partners, carrying them. That did give you strength on those pairs and let quality depth on other pairs, in McDonagh and Sergachev.
Red Wings "accidentally" has extra lefties now, as Tampa had extra righties. At some point, they are gonna start double-shifting Seider and going with 7D. For me, it's quite obvious, they are preparing for this. Lalonde is talking about it. He was one of the creators for this at Tampa, and Yzerman has been hoarding the players.
Also Jeff Petry has handled guite high minutes in the past, he can maybe take 1-2 shifts more. But it will mostly be Seider, because he has that natural stamina ability to go for highest minutes, maybe higher than any other NHL defenceman with Makar. We haven't seen that yet, but draft combine reports and some articles about his talent in bicycling athlete, will point on that direction.
So here we go:
Walman LD - RD Seider
Chiarot LD - RD Petry
Määttä LD - RD Seider
Gostisbehere LD - RD Holl
-----------
(Edvinsson LD)
What makes this an effective way of defence, your left side defencemen are always behind the same forward lines. So you are starting to have more 5-man units, like at European hockey. It gives you better chemistries, when the D-pairs aren't changing behind the forward lines all the time. It also cumulates in a positive way.
And also, you double-shift your best defenceman, your best player Moritz Seider. Doesn't sound bad for me.
These things did made Tampa a best contender for a while, until the raising salaries after success did start to eat their cap.
Last edited:
MabusIncarnate
Registered User
Fischer
HOCKEY! I'm excited, looking forward to seeing this squad on the ice and the fun reactions here in the coming weeks.
LGW! I'll make my prediction closer to game time.
But the best player with Kostin-Veleno is . . . Berggren.
sepster
Gerard Gallant is my Spirit Animal
Berggren isn't a 4th line player just like Zadina wasn't a 4th line player.
Same argument all over again. The spots for Berggren to land are in the Top 9. If he isn't being used there, the 4th line spots aren't available to him because he's not the type of player that properly fills the role of a 4th line player.
Same argument all over again. The spots for Berggren to land are in the Top 9. If he isn't being used there, the 4th line spots aren't available to him because he's not the type of player that properly fills the role of a 4th line player.
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