Value of: Sami Vatanen and Josh Manson

[Deadly Dogma]

That would be a giant curve ball lol.

Yea I guess well have to wait and see..
Id hope we can avoid losing Montour/steel as I think they are our most important prospects to our team(tho I think in terms of value Theodore/Montour > steel right now), I'm okay losing 1 of Larsson/Theodore/jones to protect vatanen/manson.


I also think at draft vatanen will be moved and likely get around the same value back as whatever we pay so it wont hurt so bad.... ideally. Just 2 more days of ridiculous speculation, on the + side I'm used to it from the rakell/vatanen/lindholm RFA year and the getzlaf and perry UFA year.

My gut feeling is GMBM had it all figured out, was going to send Vats to the Leafs, buy out or get K.B to waive then protect Manson.
But something changed and I think K.B made it clear he wants to stay a Duck and would fight a buyout.
That meant GMBM couldn't trade Vats until he had a deal in place with L.V


We do know that L.V wants picks and an unprotected 2018 1st would be very interesting to them.
In todays NHL any team can have an off year so L.V could end up with 2 top 5 picks if Ana has a hard luck year.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Don't know if true or not but I seen over the weekend that the Ducks will send Theodore to Vegas as part of the deal to leave the two roster defenseman alone. So if Vegas can get Theodore for cheap and still pick a player from the Ducks not named Vatanen or Manson then that's pretty good We will all know in a few days.

There is the occasionally poster that says crazy stuff, but I think most of us are okay losing a decent prospect in Larsson/Theodore/jones and a pick to keep vatanen and manson, and vatanen will likely be moved after for a prospect/elc player and a pick at the draft.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

My gut feeling is GMBM had it all figured out, was going to send Vats to the Leafs, buy out or get K.B to waive then protect Manson.
But something changed and I think K.B made it clear he wants to stay a Duck and would fight a buyout.
That meant GMBM couldn't trade Vats until he had a deal in place with L.V


We do know that L.V wants picks and an unprotected 2018 1st would be very interesting to them.
In todays NHL any team can have an off year so L.V could end up with 2 top 5 picks if Ana has a hard luck year.

Haha well Anaheim would have to have a really off year... like everyone goes full corey perry next season, you never go full corey perry

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

wow vatanens tag will be all time low due to his surgery and recovery, if 100% healthy then skies the limit but that isnt the case

Theres been plenty of reports showing interest in vatanen... which means teams are going to be bidding vs each other which means his value will be fairly decent.

Might come down a lil bit but still should fetch a prospect and a 1st pretty easily id say.

 

[go4hockey]

um id say theo is better than both those players, so why would they use him to save two older lesser guys, theo has makings of a mcdonagh MTL oopsie

You must love you some Theo. While he is a good prospect about NHL ready he is not close to being better than either roster defenseman. He will never be anywhere near as good as McDonagh.

 

[jrgtml67]

Theres been plenty of reports showing interest in vatanen... which means teams are going to be bidding vs each other which means his value will be fairly decent.

Might come down a lil bit but still should fetch a prospect and a 1st pretty easily id say.

wrong, they arent reports, they are rumors saying that lou and babs scouted the cpl playoff games and all assumed vatanen, which may have been right but then he got hurt and now out till new year with surgery recovery

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

We'll see.

I have a feeling GMGM is going to break some hearts

Even if vegas considered doing that and lets say Toronto said "take manson and well give you kapanen + 1st"

You don't think vegas will come back to Anaheim and say hey... Toronto has kap and a 1st on the table for us to take manson, can you add to whatever you are already paying?


Lets say Anaheim offered Theodore + 2nd, is Vegas's GM integrity worth moving a 2nd to a 1st, and I assume Anaheim would agree to go up to a 1st and maybe add a late round pick to tip the scale back to Anaheim?

Vegas also saw the defense market, sergechev + a 2nd brought back drouin... Theodore isn't sergechev but hes also not to far behind him in value.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Haha well Anaheim would have to have a really off year... like everyone goes full corey perry next season, you never go full corey perry

As a Leaf fan I am to gunshy to trade an unprotected 1st again. My Leafs could be the odds on Cup fav and they would go full Perry

 

[jrgtml67]

Even if vegas considered doing that and lets say Toronto said "take manson and well give you kapanen + 1st"

You don't think vegas will come back to Anaheim and say hey... Toronto has kap and a 1st on the table for us to take manson, can you add to whatever you are already paying?


Lets say Anaheim offered Theodore + 2nd, is Vegas's GM integrity worth moving a 2nd to a 1st, and I assume Anaheim would agree to go up to a 1st and maybe add a late round pick to tip the scale back to Anaheim?

Vegas also saw the defense market, sergechev + a 2nd brought back drouin... Theodore isn't sergechev but hes also not to far behind him in value.

umm no they wouldnt, mcphee isnt santa claus, he gives ana a chance to retain the player but if another team gives him a better deal you lose

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

As a Leaf fan I am to gunshy to trade an unprotected 1st again. My Leafs could be the odds on Cup fav and they would go full Perry

Ya I just think unless we have a crazy run with injuries all over the line up were too deep all over to really put ourselves in a situation to be a lottery pick. Good group of young and old and plenty of players in san diego to bring up for periods of time to help soften the injury bugs.

Torontos offense is prob too good to be a lottery pick now... even with injuries they have some skilled forwards to call up, and Andersen is a good enough goalie to steal enough games for you + your defense while not top in the league, is decent enough to keep you guys competitive.

 

[jrgtml67]

As a Leaf fan I am to gunshy to trade an unprotected 1st again. My Leafs could be the odds on Cup fav and they would go full Perry

normally i agree as a leaf fan with trading first OA again but this time its 17OA in one of the weakest drafts in the last decade..we keep it, we better take LILI, Foote or Hague...i could see us trading it and then moving a cpl 2nds and a prospect to get it back and maybe even move up

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

umm no they wouldnt, mcphee isnt santa claus, he gives ana a chance to retain the player but if another team gives him a better deal you lose

Why wouldn't he go back to Anaheim and have Anaheim up their offer?


What makes you think he doesn't value his word, and might make a team pay a premium over whatever Anaheim offered to change his mind... kapanen + a 1st likely isn't a premium.


secondly... I have serious doubts Toronto is trying to ruin a relationship with Anaheim who they have worked with on countless occasions and both sides have benefited for the most part, or the moves have been fair enough (with the exception being anahiem drafting well with the Toronto picks), I don't think losing kapanen and a 1st to get manson is worth losing the relationship with Anaheim, nor do I think its worth vegas flipping on their deal with Anaheim.


But that's just me, and well see Wednesday

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Ya I just think unless we have a crazy run with injuries all over the line up were too deep all over to really put ourselves in a situation to be a lottery pick. Good group of young and old and plenty of players in san diego to bring up for periods of time to help soften the injury bugs.

Torontos offense is prob too good to be a lottery pick now... even with injuries they have some skilled forwards to call up, and Andersen is a good enough goalie to steal enough games for you + your defense while not top in the league, is decent enough to keep you guys competitive.

Nope as a Leaf fan I have learnt that you always expect the worst hope for the best

 

[gorangers0525]

Depends on LVGK's needs

 

[jrgtml67]

Why wouldn't he go back to Anaheim and have Anaheim up their offer?


What makes you think he doesn't value his word, and might make a team pay a premium over whatever Anaheim offered to change his mind... kapanen + a 1st likely isn't a premium.


secondly... I have serious doubts Toronto is trying to ruin a relationship with Anaheim who they have worked with on countless occasions and both sides have benefited for the most part, or the moves have been fair enough (with the exception being anahiem drafting well with the Toronto picks)

it doesnt ruin a thing...toronto would or has probably gone to anaheim and tried to do it that way (maybe they have a 3 way trade in works) freidman said earlier this week he expects toronto to do a big trade most fans may not like right away

as a fan i see that meaning its kapenen/dermott plus our first oa

 

[Deadly Dogma]

normally i agree as a leaf fan with trading first OA again but this time its 17OA in one of the weakest drafts in the last decade..we keep it, we better take LILI, Foote or Hague...i could see us trading it and then moving a cpl 2nds and a prospect to get it back and maybe even move up

I personally like Foote or reach for Timmins.
I am 100% ok with trading the 17th this year but they idea of trading an unprotected 1st still keeps me up at night

 

[jrgtml67]

I personally like Foote or reach for Timmins.
I am 100% ok with trading the 17th this year but they idea of trading an unprotected 1st still keeps me up at night

again i normally agree, i was against it until i realised, a pick is a maybe especially this year and most guys are a 2 3yrs from being in NHL our rebuild is almost over, in fact maybe done look who we protected, leivo martin, 2 more experienced over the more skilled leipsic, rychel

and there is another scenario, do we do a side deal with vegas to keep one OR side deal and say well if you take player blank (manson or top 4 d) we give you this

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Nope as a Leaf fan I have learnt that you always expect the worst hope for the best

Ya well let me help you!

You guys trade kapanen and 1st to get vegas to take manson and move him to Toronto, manson goes too Toronto but his numbers end up bad as hes not as good without his running mate lindholm and basically you end up with a #6 dmen at the price of a 1st and kapenen... and you save Anaheim from giving him a 4 million dollar contract, we call up Theodore/Larsson/Montour and they all end up better then manson, vegas then flips your 1st to Anaheim + more and we end up drafting the next carey price with your first.


Is that worst enough?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

it doesnt ruin a thing...toronto would or has probably gone to anaheim and tried to do it that way (maybe they have a 3 way trade in works) freidman said earlier this week he expects toronto to do a big trade most fans may not like right away

as a fan i see that meaning its kapenen/dermott plus our first oa

I think if you guys moved kapanen for vatanen, youd be pissed at first but over time vats would become a fan favorite in Toronto.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I personally like Foote or reach for Timmins.
I am 100% ok with trading the 17th this year but they idea of trading an unprotected 1st still keeps me up at night

I don't remember whos draft I saw but It had liljergren dropping to Toronto... Id imagine that would be pretty hard to pass up if hes there at 17. I cant imagine him being there tho

 

[jrgtml67]

I think if you guys moved kapanen for vatanen, youd be pissed at first but over time vats would become a fan favorite in Toronto.

umm for the thousandth time....it wont happen, we have a mini window of 2yrs b4 marner matthews elc run out...why would we do that when vatanen is out for minimum half the year

all you duck fans will be in shock when you lose manson/montour to use you wait and see

 

[Homesick]

Oilers 2017 1st, Darnell Nurse and Tyler Benson for Josh Manson

 

[jrgtml67]

I don't remember whos draft I saw but It had liljergren dropping to Toronto... Id imagine that would be pretty hard to pass up if hes there at 17. I cant imagine him being there tho

ya if you look up mock drafts after top 3 or 4, everyone is jumbled around the funniest one i saw was hague at 38oa...made me laugh, thats the reason why though i say if we moved the 17oa we could possibly move up by moving our other 10 picks/b prospects

 

[jrgtml67]

Oilers 2017 1st, Darnell Nurse and Tyler Benson for Josh Manson

that is stupid...nurse is going to be a beast...im a leaf fan and wow, if thats all it takes leafs will have him

17oa,jvr,kapenen--nurse, 2nd pick

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Oilers 2017 1st, Darnell Nurse and Tyler Benson for Josh Manson

Id be shocked if oilers offered that for manson, but oilers are a division rival so under the idea of not helping division rivals idk that Vegas cares what oilers have to offer that's going to be their big rival when they finally are competitive, by then Anaheim will prob be a 3-6 seed and oilers will be winning the conference.

Too risky to move nurse imo, hes still got a whole lot of potential to be better than manson