Value of: Sami Vatanen and Josh Manson

[Deadly Dogma]

Noting to elaborate on?

what are you realistically going to offer that is more than Theodore/Larsson? that is high enough to motivate vegas to go back on their deal/word? At the same time is high enough to entice vegas to bother moving him too Toronto, when they could just keep them and use them.


Toronto would literally be paying whatever Anaheim would demand for each piece? so why would they go through vegas and ruin their relationship with Anaheim when they could likely just offer the "much more" to Anaheim.

I wont be shocked if vatanen ends up in Toronto, but it wont be through vegas itll be at the draft between ducks and leafs.

If Lou wants McPhee to cut GMBM's deal it will get cut. Lou is prob 1 of the most influential GM's

not saying he will but saying if it gets dirty I want Lou in my corner

 

[haseoke39]

If I were Vegas, I'd just be taking Vatanen and calling it a day. He might be the best defenseman available, and you need that quality on your top pair. Why auction him off?

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Arnt rychel and leispic on the exposed list... I think the leafs management could potentially want to keep both if they could.

They're both Marlies for the foreseeable future and we have 5+ similar quality or better wingers ready to go as soon as next season.

Unless the deal is like a 5th round pick not to take them, it doesn't make any sense to pay more.

 

[Liferleafer]

Arnt rychel and leispic on the exposed list... I think the leafs management could potentially want to keep both if they could.

They aren't something we don't already have more of.

 

[Spazkat]

Obviously i don't have direct info, but Chris Johnson just tweeted that the Leafs and Vegas are working on a trade....and i can tell you it is certainly not to protect on of our exposed players....because they aren't worth protecting.

They were just talking about this on NHL network and speculation was that it was in regards to Dumba

 

[Liferleafer]

They were just talking about this on NHL network and speculation was that it was in regards to Dumba

Works for me.

 

[Markus078]

If true well done Bob! Get us over tomorrow and we will be fine. I'm a little bit upset that the entry draft may be boring from a Ducks perspective.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Nothing is confirmed. Nothing is signed. We have no idea what the potential deal is. My point is, Murray was effed and has to expose a couple good players anyways so of course he's going to try to solidify a deal to protect everyone he wants.

But If I'm McPhee I don't fully commit 100% to any deal until the full protection lists are sent out and I talk to everyone on our side to make the best decision possible. This way if someone offer something ridiculous like Duchene + #4 you aren't handcuffed to a deal you agreed to before.

This is negotiating 101.




Of course Murray is committed to the deal. He's in a **** position and had to commit to expose a couple good players regardless.

The idea that a trade is already filed with the league is something you assume. It's not confirmed. I believe they have a deal in place pending a better offer. Anybody with basic negotiating skills would do this.

You do not know the bolded to be true. It's something you assume. And if BM effed himself it was 100% because he thought he had a deal with McPhee. He did not expose those two players with the belief/understanding that McPhee would shop them to the other teams and THEN come back and tell BM what the price would be to keep them. Common sense 101.

 

[Ducks DVM]

 

[Razzdazzle1]

You do not know the bolded to be true. It's something you assume. And if BM effed himself it was 100% because he thought he had a deal with McPhee. He did not expose those two players with the belief/understanding that McPhee would shop them to the other teams and THEN come back and tell BM what the price would be to keep them. Common sense 101.

If the Pens offered Crosby but want Vatanan or Manson included you do the deal. Common sense 101.

Obviously the original idea of Duchene + #4 isn't enough for you guys to pull the trigger, but there is an offer that would do it.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

If the Pens offered Crosby but want Vatanan or Manson included you do the deal. Common sense 101.

Obviously the original idea of Duchene + #4 isn't enough for you guys to pull the trigger, but there is an offer that would do it.

So for the right price you would lie and go back on your word. OK, fine We're back to my original point. Integrity means nothing to you if there is something to be gained by lying.

We've come full circle. I'm done now. Carry on with your dancing.

 

[me2]

Obviously i don't have direct info, but Chris Johnson just tweeted that the Leafs and Vegas are working on a trade....and i can tell you it is certainly not to protect on of our exposed players....because they aren't worth protecting.

So maybe it's Methot or some lesser player. Lupul would be a good dump.

 

[Razzdazzle1]

So for the right price you would lie and go back on your word. OK, fine We're back to my original point. Integrity means nothing to you if there is something to be gained by lying.

We've come full circle. I'm done now. Carry on with your dancing.

No. I've been very clear from the beginning that I don't believe any deal was finalized. They negotiated a deal that both agreed to, but there's no way you finalize it until all the cards are on the table.

Murray is the one needing to negotiate with Vegas to keep the players he wants. There's no reason for McPhee to settle early.

There's a difference between lying and keeping your options open and making the best decision possible. I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand this.

 

[ohcomeonref]

No. I've been very clear from the beginning that I don't believe any deal was finalized. They negotiated a deal that both agreed to, but there's no way you finalize it until all the cards are on the table.

Murray is the one needing to negotiate with Vegas to keep the players he wants. There's no reason for McPhee to settle early.

There's a difference between lying and keeping your options open and making the best decision possible. I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand this.

Agreeing to a deal and then reneging is lying. Not sure what mental acrobatics you're doing to avoid that conclusion.

 

[Vipers31]

No. I've been very clear from the beginning that I don't believe any deal was finalized. They negotiated a deal that both agreed to, but there's no way you finalize it until all the cards are on the table.

Yes, there obviously is, and that isn't even rare. You don't always get to wait until every card you'd possibly want to see is on the table. It doesn't work that way. In this case, the Ducks' decision which cards to put "on the table" was the very point of the deal. If it wasn't made, the Ducks would have put other cards on the table; it's not even the right analogy, as these cards aren't even playable.

 

[Razzdazzle1]

Yes, there obviously is, and that isn't even rare. You don't always get to wait until every card you'd possibly want to see is on the table. It doesn't work that way. In this case, the Ducks' decision which cards to put "on the table" was the very point of the deal. If it wasn't made, the Ducks would have put other cards on the table; it's not even the right analogy, as these cards aren't even playable.

Who would they have instead... Protect 4 Dmen and trade Vatanen? expose Silfverberg? Vegas takes Silfverberg all day. It's pretty clear they are dominating the negotiation.

You see it as Murray had so many options. I see it as he didn't have many options and had to decide which player he'd like to lose least if he gets outbid.

 

[Razzdazzle1]

Agreeing to a deal and then reneging is lying. Not sure what mental acrobatics you're doing to avoid that conclusion.

Do you see Mckenzies tweet a few comments above???

Maybe you should google the definition of speculation.

 

[GhostOfWildWing]

If GMBM and GMGM had even a verbal agreement, I am quite certain GMGM won't go back on it. These are both members of the 'Old Boys Club of GMs, not a new up-and-comer willing to make headlines and shock the league.

Now, let's say a new offer comes along that is simply too good to pass up? GMGM will call Bob up and have to offer him more and be "Bob, we can't refuse this crazy deal - what do you need to make it ok to ditch our original agreement?"

That said, anyone wanting Manson or Vats that strongly, should simply have made a direct deal with Anaheim for them. Vegas has no reason to let them go at a cheaper price than the Ducks would (while going back on their word).

Now, I do think it possible Vegas ends up with Vatman *IF* that was the deal GMBM made. Perhaps they let them take Vats in exchange for Vegas trading a pick for Stoner, clearing just over 8M off Anaheim's books; enough to maybe throw an offer at Eaves to stay ?

 

[Vipers31]

Who would they have instead... Protect 4 Dmen and trade Vatanen? expose Silfverberg? Vegas takes Silfverberg all day. It's pretty clear they are dominating the negotiation.

You see it as Murray had so many options. I see it as he didn't have many options and had to decide which player he'd like to lose least if he gets outbid.

He had enough options, until I see anything suggesting the opposite. The fact that McKenzie and LeBrun/Friedman (don't recall if it was just one or both) said the deal didn't even make it necessary for them to ask Bieksa to waive his NMC says a fair bit.

 

[me2]

No. I've been very clear from the beginning that I don't believe any deal was finalized. They negotiated a deal that both agreed to, but there's no way you finalize it until all the cards are on the table.

Murray is the one needing to negotiate with Vegas to keep the players he wants. There's no reason for McPhee to settle early.

Other than stopping Anaheim trading away his leverage.

 

[Tripod]

Who would they have instead... Protect 4 Dmen and trade Vatanen? expose Silfverberg? Vegas takes Silfverberg all day. It's pretty clear they are dominating the negotiation.

You see it as Murray had so many options. I see it as he didn't have many options and had to decide which player he'd like to lose least if he gets outbid.

Except you see it wrong.

 

[Razzdazzle1]

Except you see it wrong.

I guess we'll find out.