Player Discussion Sam Gagner

[MS]

Funny thing; Gagner (who is clearly underachieving) is scoring at .355 PPG and it seems every Canuck fan in the world thinks he's the worst player ever but Jake Virtanen (aka "the Next Bert") is scoring at .259 PPG and can do no wrong in Canuck land. Any problems with his game are clearly the coaches fault (Willie probably ruined him forever, right?) or his linemates or...something. Gagner is terrible because he doesn't make the players around him any better and he doesn't score enough even strength points (even if he is tied for 7th in team scoring). Clearly he is this year's scapegoat.
Ah perspective...

Jesus Christ.

Sam Gagner is getting top-9 minutes with heaps of PP time.

Jake Virtanen is getting 4th line minutes with no PP time.

At ES, Virtanen has posted 4-3-7 numbers in 27 games. Gagner has posted 1-5-6 numbers in 31 games.

Virtanen is playing quality defense for a young player and has only been on the ice for 6 ES goals in those 27 games. Sam Gagner has somehow been on the ice for 22 ES goals (outscored 22-9 when he's on the ice) in 31 games, despite playing pretty soft defensive minutes. Guy has been a complete trainwreck.

Virtanen makes 1/3 of what Gagner does.

So basically Virtanen is out-performing Gagner at both ends of the rink in fewer minutes while making a much smaller salary. Make sense now?

 

[MS]

I didn’t understand the Gagner signing when it happened, and I still don’t! That being said, I figured “whatever, we can just try and salvage a pick for him at the deadline?” However, he is playing such a low level of hockey right now you have to ask what team in their right mind would even want the guy at this point? Best case scenario is that he has a little hot streak in mid February, and we can at least salvage something there. The same can be said about Vanek.

Gagner right now is a negative-value asset who would clear waivers easily.

 

[Zippgunn]

It's almost like they are two completely different players with different salaries, different usage, different roles and different expectations. Weird...

Key word here: expectations. Me, I expected around 30 points out of Gagner and he's on pace for that. I figured that, by now, Virtanen would be playing like a top 10 draft pick playing in his 3rd pro season. He's not there yet but there's still hope. Since Jake is on an ELC comparing salaries is disingenuous. If either of these two players is underachieving it's Virtanen but, hey, don't let me ruin the two minute hate.

 

[me2]

I didn’t understand the Gagner signing when it happened, and I still don’t! That being said, I figured “whatever, we can just try and salvage a pick for him at the deadline?” However, he is playing such a low level of hockey right now you have to ask what team in their right mind would even want the guy at this point? Best case scenario is that he has a little hot streak in mid February, and we can at least salvage something there. The same can be said about Vanek.

Gagner would clear waivers and then he still counts as a $2m cap hit in the minors.

 

[CanaFan]

“Jake Virtanen can do no wrong in Canuckland?”

Wth is this??

 

[Canucks1096]

Jesus Christ.

Sam Gagner is getting top-9 minutes with heaps of PP time.

Jake Virtanen is getting 4th line minutes with no PP time.

At ES, Virtanen has posted 4-3-7 numbers in 27 games. Gagner has posted 1-5-6 numbers in 31 games.

Virtanen is playing quality defense for a young player and has only been on the ice for 6 ES goals in those 27 games. Sam Gagner has somehow been on the ice for 22 ES goals (outscored 22-9 when he's on the ice) in 31 games, despite playing pretty soft defensive minutes. Guy has been a complete trainwreck.

Virtanen makes 1/3 of what Gagner does.

So basically Virtanen is out-performing Gagner at both ends of the rink in fewer minutes while making a much smaller salary. Make sense now?

For like the first 20 games or so Virtanen was like getting close 70% offensive zone starts. It came down to 55% since he is not with the Sedins anymore. Gagner for the most part this season was getting about 40% offensive zone starts. About 1/4 of the season he was with Sutter on the checking line. So Gagner is not getting easy mins.

You say Virtanen playing quality defense is really misleading. I will say Virtanen he is not hurting you defensively out there. ALeo a player thats on pace for 20 points shouldn't be getting those zone starts.

 

[Melvin]

Key word here: expectations. Me, I expected around 30 points out of Gagner and he's on pace for that. I figured that, by now, Virtanen would be playing like a top 10 draft pick playing in his 3rd pro season. He's not there yet but there's still hope. Since Jake is on an ELC comparing salaries is disingenuous. If either of these two players is underachieving it's Virtanen but, hey, don't let me ruin the two minute hate.

Jake Virtanen is a 20 year old prospect on his ELC playing junk minutes and doing OK, holding his own defensively while contributing the odd goal.

Sam Gagner is like a 10-year pro making 3+M while getting turnstiled defensively playing and contibuting basically no better offense despite softer minutes.

This is not a head-scratcher and I am not even a fan of Virtanen (I think he should be sent down.)

 

[me2]

Jake Virtanen is a 20 year old prospect on his ELC playing junk minutes and doing OK, holding his own defensively while contributing the odd goal.

Sam Gagner is like a 10-year pro making 3+M while getting turnstiled defensively playing and contibuting basically no better offense despite softer minutes.

This is not a head-scratcher and I am not even a fan of Virtanen (I think he should be sent down.)

If Gagner was some waiver wire scrub or AHL callup he'd be gone by now. Green has to play the hand he's been dealt, with Gagner the GMs new shiny toy, and the fact he's got a 3 year deal, Green's stuck with him and he needs to at least try to turn Gagner around before throwing up his hands.

 

[Canucks1096]

Jake Virtanen is a 20 year old prospect on his ELC playing junk minutes and doing OK, holding his own defensively while contributing the odd goal.

Sam Gagner is like a 10-year pro making 3+M while getting turnstiled defensively playing and contibuting basically no better offense despite softer minutes.

This is not a head-scratcher and I am not even a fan of Virtanen (I think he should be sent down.)

Gagner mins are not softer than Virtanen. Read my last post.

I think Virtanen should be sent down as well

 

[RobertKron]

Funny thing; Gagner (who is clearly underachieving) is scoring at .355 PPG and it seems every Canuck fan in the world thinks he's the worst player ever but Jake Virtanen (aka "the Next Bert") is scoring at .259 PPG and can do no wrong in Canuck land. Any problems with his game are clearly the coaches fault (Willie probably ruined him forever, right?) or his linemates or...something. Gagner is terrible because he doesn't make the players around him any better and he doesn't score enough even strength points (even if he is tied for 7th in team scoring). Clearly he is this year's scapegoat.
Ah perspective...

What in the actual f*** are you talking about?

 

[Zippgunn]

What in the actual **** are you talking about?

What I'm trying to say is that Gagner isn't that bad; he's tied for 7th in team scoring and is holding his own despite being thrust into a role that he is not comfortable with. I too had hoped for more but I figured he would score roughly 2/3rds of what he did last year and so far he is on track for that. Certainly one can't lay the blame for the Canucks recent woes at his doorstep alone.

 

[VanJack]

Figured that Gagner would quickly supplant Gudbranson to win the coveted "Luca Sbisa Award" as the most 'revered' Canuck on these boards'.

 

[iFan]

Gagner would clear waivers and then he still counts as a $2m cap hit in the minors.

I’m fine with this... Gagner isn’t any good, just another bad UFA signing

 

[CanaFan]

What I'm trying to say is that Gagner isn't that bad; he's tied for 7th in team scoring and is holding his own despite being thrust into a role that he is not comfortable with. I too had hoped for more but I figured he would score roughly 2/3rds of what he did last year and so far he is on track for that. Certainly one can't lay the blame for the Canucks recent woes at his doorstep alone.

He plays nearly 15 mins a night and is on pace for 8 goals FFS ...

 

[Canucks1096]

Gagner been a center for most of his career. But Free used him on the wing for most of the season

 

[F A N]

I wonder if he’ll be in the NHL long after he turns 30 and has played over 900 games. His game seems to be eroding rapidly.

Probably not long. We have had this discussion before when you were arguing what a mistake it was not signing Derek Roy.

 

[CanaFan]

Probably not long. We have had this discussion before when you were arguing what a mistake it was not signing Derek Roy.

How about you save me some guessing and just tell me the relevance of whatever I said about Roy to what I am saying about Gagner? Cause I really don’t have the energy to dig through the archives to figure it out.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

What I'm trying to say is that Gagner isn't that bad; he's tied for 7th in team scoring and is holding his own despite being thrust into a role that he is not comfortable with. I too had hoped for more but I figured he would score roughly 2/3rds of what he did last year and so far he is on track for that. Certainly one can't lay the blame for the Canucks recent woes at his doorstep alone.

Dude, I defend Canuck players whenever I can. Gagner SUCKS.

I don't think we would have signed him if we had known we would get Vanek so cheaply later in the year.

Gagner is the worst free agent signing this team has done in awhile. Eriksson is grossly overpaid, but he's still a decent to good NHL player. Gagner disrupts everything and gets beaten all around the ice.

He is the kind of guy who can cost you 5-9 wins a season as a WINGER. It's amazing.

 

[Jyrki21]

Edit: furthermore, I’d suggest there’s probably greater crossover between idiots who didn’t love Kyle Wellwood and current Benning Bros than anything else.

This was exactly my thought... Wellwood fanship, in simplified shorthand, is basically [positive Corsi events > Appearance of "trying hard"]

 

[Hit the post]

This was exactly my thought... Wellwood fanship, in simplified shorthand, is basically [positive Corsi events > Appearance of "trying hard"]

Easier to "hide" a guy like Wellwood (or even Gagner) with a much stronger team like during the apex of the Gilligan years. However, I'd suspect Wellfed warts would show with this 'island of misfit toys'.

 

[opendoor]

It really is amazing how Benning can continuously buy high on players with spotty track records. Gudbranson plays 25 minutes a night in one playoff series? Trade a bunch of futures for him. Sutter finally hits the 20 goal mark? Trade for him and extend him ASAP. Eriksson hits 60 points again after 3 disappointing season? Give him $36M until he's 37. Gagner goes on a hot streak less than a year after clearing waivers? Sign him until 2020.

And then when they all fall back to their normal recent performance and the team sucks he seems baffled.

 

[RobertKron]

Easier to "hide" a guy like Wellwood (or even Gagner) with a much stronger team like during the apex of the Gilligan years. However, I'd suspect Wellfed warts would show with this 'island of misfit toys'.

Wellwood would likely be, within reason, super handy right now when the team desperately needs a lower-roster centre who can shift up and at least kind of pretend to fill a top-6 spot.

He was, in some respects, what I’d imagine Benning thought he was getting in Gagner.

 

[Jyrki21]

He was, in some respects, what I’d imagine Benning thought he was getting in Gagner.

I’d be surprised if Benning saw anything beyond his basic point totals last year. We all remember the sophisticated evaluations of guys like Bonino and Sbisa.

 

[VanJack]

It really is amazing how Benning can continuously buy high on players with spotty track records. Gudbranson plays 25 minutes a night in one playoff series? Trade a bunch of futures for him. Sutter finally hits the 20 goal mark? Trade for him and extend him ASAP. Eriksson hits 60 points again after 3 disappointing season? Give him $36M until he's 37. Gagner goes on a hot streak less than a year after clearing waivers? Sign him until 2020.

And then when they all fall back to their normal recent performance and the team sucks he seems baffled.

Really beginning to wonder though if this is all on Benning.....I mean from all reports, the owner signs off on some of these contracts too.....for a team in the throes of a rebuild, the signings of Eriksson and Gagner made zero sense.....and the term of the contracts just ridiculous. It smacks of desperation on the part of someone.....either a GM who's not convinced he'll survive a true 'rebuild' or an owner who can't accept the idea that the customer base is fine with losing and being out of the playoffs, as long they're auditioning younger players.

 

[0din]

Really beginning to wonder though if this is all on Benning.....I mean from all reports, the owner signs off on some of these contracts too.....for a team in the throes of a rebuild, the signings of Eriksson and Gagner made zero sense.....and the term of the contracts just ridiculous. It smacks of desperation on the part of someone.....either a GM who's not convinced he'll survive a true 'rebuild' or an owner who can't accept the idea that the customer base is fine with losing and being out of the playoffs, as long they're auditioning younger players.

Could be that the owner let Benning try to keep his job, letting him get the rest of his contract to prove himself. The "plan".

Eriksson and Gagner are retirement contracts. 3.5 mil for a 4th liner? Intelligent managing and team building.
You know the longer this "joke" continues the more I start to believe they are doing it on purpose. Intentionally keeping the team out of contention for 11 or 12 years. I has been 5 years so far.