Player Discussion Sam Gagner

[Bleach Clean]

How do we judge this player?

Currently, Gagner is on pace for 30 points. He's doing this in largely a bottom6 role with PP time. Normally, this would be considered a good total. 30 points would have placed him at rank #191 among forwards last year (high end 3rd line production). What's not to like? Well, he has underwhelmed in the more competitive aspects of the game. Much like Vanek, you may not notice him until he scores or gets an assist. So what is that worth?

Before the season, if you were to expect 40~ points from Gagner on the year, which he has been known to produce (pace) in all but one season in his career, then 3.15m per seems very reasonable. But what if he gets 30 points? Lower? What is that threshold for Gagner?

To me, Sam Gagner is _the_ wild card on this team. He could finish with 40~ points on the year and still draw the ire of fans. He sits at -10 on the year, which is 2nd worst on the team. He has bounced around on the 3rd line and 4th line, from top PP unit to off both units and from wing to centre and back.

Interesting player to say the least. Discuss!

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[tantalum]

Not sure I'd call him interesting. He is what he has pretty much always been. Give him icetime and he'll put up 40-50 points while doing very little else to help the team. And on balance might hurt the team as increased icetime means higher quality of competition and defensively he is, well, suspect.

He's the exact type of player that you find playing on 5 teams over 5 seasons. Not the type of player you give a 3 year deal worth over $9 mil to. A Reid Boucher could likely fill a similar 4th line, PP specialist role for the money that you'd like to spend on such a player.

He can hit a hot streak like many are unable to though so we'll see. I just think he's pretty much a pointless player on this team (and most teams).

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i dislike him immensely. more than sbisa, maybe.

weak, one dimensional skill player/bad team scorer on the wrong side of losing that dimension. like comrie’s last years, or cody.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Not sure I'd call him interesting. He is what he has pretty much always been. Give him icetime and he'll put up 40-50 points while doing very little else to help the team. And on balance might hurt the team as increased icetime means higher quality of competition and defensively he is, well, suspect.

He's the exact type of player that you find playing on 5 teams over 5 seasons. Not the type of player you give a 3 year deal worth over $9 mil to. A Reid Boucher could likely fill a similar 4th line, PP specialist role for the money that you'd like to spend on such a player.

He can hit a hot streak like many are unable to though so we'll see. I just think he's pretty much a pointless player on this team (and most teams).

Gagner is a study in how much offense is worth vs. goal prevention. The average 3rd line player puts up around 25~ points. Last year, 25 points was about #223 in overall ranking. So Gagner is immediately recognized as a player that posts mid-2nd line numbers (40 points was ranked #138 among forwards). The question becomes: how bad is he defensively, and does it negate his offensive efficiency? I haven't done the deep dive into the numbers. Suffice it to say, his deficiencies would have to be significant for it to matter, IMO.

On the contract: The contract is what makes his so intriguing to me. At 40 points, his per point rate is $78,750. Last year that would have been a better bargain than Neal, Nugent-Hopkins, Henrique and Dubinsky and so on... How common is it to get mid-2nd line production for a 3m~ contract?

Reid Boucher could not centre a 3rd offensive line, IMO, and that seems to be where they are trying to slot Gagner. If he stays there, maybe his PPG rate increases to what it has traditionally been. At such a time, the perception of his contract would have to be (or should be) revisited.

 

[MS]

He's just not a very good player, and never really has been outside of that one game where he somehow scored 8 points.

He's basically a bit better Linden Vey. Not dynamic enough offensively to be a quality top-6 forward, not good enough defensively to be an effective bottom-6 forward. But kinda useful on the PP.

I've seen a lot of criticism of his effort level and that he's 'mailing it in' but I disagree with that and actually think he's trying really hard. He just isn't very good. He's slow, smallish, weak on the puck, weak in puck battles on the boards. Decent smarts but no physical tools at all.

Currently 1 ES goal in 27 games for a guy signed pretty much solely to score points. Looks like an awful signing right now - a downgrade on young players like Virtanen and Goldobin that he's stealing icetime from.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

If there's one player I believe is actually blocking young players, it's Gagner.

I would jump at the chance to move him for nearly anything once Sutter comes back. Hell, I'd way rather see Boucher playing even now.

 

[alternate]

Yeah he's been underwhelming so far to say the least. With that said, I like the mindset behind the signing...get some skill for our bottom six/someone that can help QB a PP so our ELCs have someone with some offensive chops to play with.

His contract probably isn't out of whack for his career production. I mean $3m doesn't get you what it used to. And I agree with MS that I do think Gagner is giving an honest effort.

All that said, he's just not very good. Vanek is the classic sniper who you don't notice until he puts up points, but I enjoy watching him play. He's such a good offensive player that most games there's a moment or two of magic that is worth the price of admission.

Can't say the same about Gagner. He's not entertaining to watch. His production isn't terrible, but he doesn't really have a natural fit in the line up. Even second unit PP, while I'd rather see Gagner than Sutter, I'd prefer Goldoblin or Virtannen over both. So while I appreciate the need to add some veteran skill to play with our young offensive wingers percolating up the organization, so far Gagner has been a swing and a miss.

I do feel his play has gotten a bit better as the season has moved on, so the book isn't closed on this signing yet. And if the Sedins aren't back next season, then Gagner might be worth his contract just as a 4th line PP specialist.

 

[DL44]

All you can say about him is Veteran.

His experience makes him defensively capable where (excluding the last few games cuz I couldn't watch) you rarely see him at fault for a defensive breakdown causing a goal.
He gets played late in games and holds ok.

He's capable of contributing offensively in flashes and can be opportunistic.

He's somewhat versatile in now being able to play each forward position..

He's small and loses a lot of board battles, and his line with him does not sustain enough zone time... This is the frustrating part since he was expected by fans to be a more consistent offensive contributor.
He's a complimentary player that doesn't quite do enough with what Vanek has been able to produce... but he does manage to earn a couple/few quality chances a game. Just needs to finish more to decrease that area of frustration he gives me.


Edit: I see he's collected a -5 over the last week alone skewing the numbers a bit against him.
He also has 5pts over his last 9 games from the depth of the lineup... which is very good.


My Summary...
He's frustrating for his line's lack of ability to sustain zone time more often and lack of luck/finish with the chances he earns, but appreciate his underrated defensive play and see why Green trusts him.

 

[me2]

All you can say about him is Veteran.

His experience makes him defensively capable where (excluding the last few games cuz I couldn't watch) you rarely see him at fault for a defensive breakdown causing a goal.
He gets played late in games and holds ok.

He's capable of contributing offensively in flashes and can be opportunistic.

He's somewhat versatile in now being able to play each forward position..

He's small and loses a lot of board battles, and his line with him does not sustain enough zone time... This is the frustrating part since he was expected by fans to be a more consistent offensive contributor.
He's a complimentary player that doesn't quite do enough with what Vanek has been able to produce... but he does manage to earn a couple/few quality chances a game. Just needs to finish more to decrease that area of frustration he gives me.


Edit: I see he's collected a -5 over the last week alone skewing the numbers a bit against him.
He also has 5pts over his last 9 games from the depth of the lineup... which is very good.


My Summary...
He's frustrating for his line's lack of ability to sustain zone time more often and lack of luck/finish with the chances he earns, but appreciate his underrated defensive play and see why Green trusts him.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone describe his defensive play as underrated and should be appreciated. The other descriptions are far more common from every other team he's been on, moderate offensive ability and poor defensive ability that offsets that value. That's what we've seen here.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

His defensive game is truly terrible, surprised how a player can play in the league this long and still not know what guy to cover on the backcheck - perhaps still has a little of the pre-McDavid Oiler stink on him.

He needs to start producing more, especially goals, to make up for this.

However, he seems great in the room, and does provide some much needed skill in our bottom-6. He doesn't steal ice-time from Virtanen IMO; Virtanen is lucky to even be in the NHL right now.

 

[Zippgunn]

Funny thing: I asked a few of my hockey buddies what they thought of Gagner. All but two thought he was useless. Later I asked whether we had given up too early on Kassian. All the guys that hated Gags said yes and all but one of those said he would eventually become a dominant player in the NHL. This tells me something...

 

[Bgav]

Thought his recent play has been pretty good. Like Gags

 

[cc]

The more I watch him, the more I'm convinced he's not really a capable even strength player. He looks ok as a pp specialist but I'm not seeing his 5 vs 5 play clicking very well.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

From the Oilers board: HOW QUICKLY WILL THE OILERS BECOME SAM GAGNER'S TEAM

 

[vancityluongo]

From the Oilers board: HOW QUICKLY WILL THE OILERS BECOME SAM GAGNER'S TEAM

Great example of how young players can look promising and then flame out incredibly. Should probably apply that same logic to Pettersson and other players in the system. Thanks for sharing!

Also lol @ quotes from HF in that article.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

how can a guy whose dad develops young players professionally be so physically below NHL calibre?

it’s like the opposite of bure.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Like Dorsett and Sbisa, this is another guy who played for the Canucks that I'll never actually associate with this team in my mind. To me he'll always be lil snowpants, the guy Oilers fans thought would lead them to respectability.

 

[MS]

The more I watch him, the more I'm convinced he's not really a capable even strength player. He looks ok as a pp specialist but I'm not seeing his 5 vs 5 play clicking very well.

He's doing a really good job on the 2nd unit PP, which is the best 2nd unit we've had since the Sedins in 05-06. Anyone else remember how we didn't have a PP goal from our 2nd unit through 40 games of the season a couple years ago?

But yeah, he's getting destroyed at ES. Just awful at both ends of the rink. 1 goal and 6 points in 28 games, and a -10. That's Linden Vey at his worst kind of bad.

 

[elitepete]

Just another bad contract to add to Bennings list.

19.525 tied up Eriksson, Sutter, Gagner, Gudbranson, Dorsett.

Benning is special.

 

[HSD19]

Just another bad contract to add to Bennings list.

19.525 tied up Eriksson, Sutter, Gagner, Gudbranson, Dorsett.

Benning is special.

Yep another bad call that we are strapped onto for another 2 years after this season. Shouldn't have been signed at all.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Just another bad contract to add to Bennings list.

19.525 tied up Eriksson, Sutter, Gagner, Gudbranson, Dorsett.

Benning is special.

You're really digging into some muck to include Dorsett on that list. Post is another embarrassment to this forum.

 

[Ernie]

What's this now? Are we going to pretend Dorsett's contract isn't hot garbage just because he's hurt?

 

[VanJack]

Just another bad contract to add to Bennings list.

19.525 tied up Eriksson, Sutter, Gagner, Gudbranson, Dorsett.

Benning is special.

No doubt about it....for all the good Benning has done on the prospect front, the contracts he doles out to some of his acquisitions and FA signings are just baffling. You can add Gagner to the list.....just mystified as to what Benning and the Canucks thought they were getting....Gagner put up points in Columbus playing sheltered minutes and first unit pp time. But as an everyday five-on-five player he was rapidly playing himself out of the league. I could see a one-year deal or even two, like Del Zotto....but a three year deal?....just not getting it.

 

[Jyrki]

Gagner simply isn't effective when the puck isn't on his stick in the offensive zone. He's strictly a scorer that is a significant liability in all other circumstances. He's our softest player, crumbles in his own zone and rarely has a defensive presence. In the Blue Jackets he played a good role because their roster is full of well-rounded forwards but not much high-end skill; on the other hand, we havequite a few budding skilled players who need steady, reliable players by their side (not to mention the Sedins, who don't do much else other than score either). Like the other garbage contracts Benning gave out, this one will hurt once we need to extend the youngsters.

 

[Jay Cee]

Pretty much useless.