Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[ILikeTurtles]

Well if you expected 70-80 points yeah you expected too much. He’s still on pace to get 23 goals, 24 assists.

There are a lot of factors that didn’t help like first full season, other teams knowing who he is, being on a bad team for half a season, etc.

He’s also been developing his game a bit more. He’s better at forechecking and hitting now. A bit more solid in his own end and has had stints at centre and on the PK.

This is one of the big things I have noticed. He has done a good job at adapting his game this season, mostly about keeping his head up while skating. He took 3 or so hits last year that crushed him, and I don't think he has taken one yet this year. I think him focusing on not taking these big shots has dipped his production a bit.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

Its a sophomore season for Jake... this kind of thing is totally normal in development... A guy has a remarkable rookie season and every team scouts them harder and starts taking away their favorite tendencies, then either the player adjusts and grows in different directions to offset what teams are doing, or they stagnate and dont replicate that success.... its not often a straight upward line for these guys... it has peaks and valleys....

I'm glad we have him. See I think my expectations are maybe somewhat too high because I am thinking about Crosby and not Guentzel himself. You're right, of course.

 

[The Old Master]

If you say so. Like I said I expected too much I think.

I was just the opposite, I keep waiting for him to come down to earth, and he kept proving me wrong.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

It would if Crosby tried.

See, I hate being down on Sid tho. That man lives, eats, and breathes hockey so really hard to say he's not trying. I dunno..

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I was just the opposite, I keep waiting for him to come down to earth, and he kept proving me wrong.

See I did not. He's a really smart player. I really thought he would be unstoppable with Sid. Fast, smart, quick release, strong enough on the puck to make a play. I just need to dial back the Jakecrush I have. lol

 

[RizzleMcRib]

He was.

If he was he wouldn't have been sent down. You can preach your fancy stats all you want, but he wasn't producing with Sid and was relegated to the bench.

 

[PensandCaps]

If he was he wouldn't have been sent down. You can preach your fancy stats all you want, but he wasn't producing with Sid and was relegated to the bench.

And again...He shouldn't have been sent down. Because he was playing well. Coaches make mistakes, It happens.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

And again...He shouldn't have been sent down. Because he was playing well. Coaches make mistakes, It happens.

He wasn't though. So now you think the coaches made a mistake? You know the same coaches that have us fighting for 1st in the Metro? The same coaches who have now turned this team into one of the highest scoring teams? The same coaches who watch these players during practice? Please. If that's the case and you know more than the coaches, you should probably get off the forums and go see if you can grab one of those coaching jobs that open up during the offseason.

 

[pistolpete11]

Guentzel is exactly where I expected him to be. 20-25G , 45-50P. What he did last year was incredible, but it's tough to get up in that 60-70-80 point range without getting #1PP time. And to me, he doesn't have the raw talent to do it at even strength. So I'd say he's right where he should be.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

And again...He shouldn't have been sent down. Because he was playing well. Coaches make mistakes, It happens.

I seriously would have loved Sprong to stay up, but it didn't happen. I just wonder why Sheary has had such a rough time? Wonder if there was a correlation to him dating a certain someone and his play. lol.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

Guentzel is exactly where I expected him to be. 20-25G , 45-50P. What he did last year was incredible, but it's tough to get up in that 60-70-80 point range without getting #1PP time. And to me, he doesn't have the raw talent to do it at even strength. So I'd say he's right where he should be.

You know I think this is a VERY valid point. You're absolutely right.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

People want to talk about maybe he would have started scoring again... Maybe he should try that in WBS. 2 goals in his last 17 games.

 

[Riptide]

Funny enough, I actually had something about Sheary's salary/contract being the only legit reason over Sprog originally in the post and deleted it.

I'm not sure if it's a bigger reason then the success he had last year and the Pens wanting him to get back to that... but you add in his contract and his past success and it should be pretty easy to see why Sheary is getting games and Sprong is still in the minors. Sprong will be an asset either way... if Sheary can't get his game together, I think we all assume it's a safe bet that he'll be moved this summer. However if Sheary can get his game together, then that leaves the Penguins in a situation where they have both Sprong and Sheary going forward. That makes a lot more sense then just tossing Sheary away due to him having a rough season this year.

He was one of our best players in his 8 games. What excuse would be needed? He played very well.

You mean in a couple of those 8 games. He certainly wasn't one of our best in every one of them. If he was, he wouldn't have been benched and then sent to the minors.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

He wasn't though. So now you think the coaches made a mistake? You know the same coaches that have us fighting for 1st in the Metro? The same coaches who have now turned this team into one of the highest scoring teams? The same coaches who watch these players during practice? Please. If that's the case and you know more than the coaches, you should probably get off the forums and go see if you can grab one of those coaching jobs that open up during the offseason.

Appeal to authority

 

[The Old Master]

See I did not. He's a really smart player. I really thought he would be unstoppable with Sid. Fast, smart, quick release, strong enough on the puck to make a play. I just need to dial back the Jakecrush I have. lol

he is smart....I was going on his shot....he got very few goals by sniping the top corner, or over powering the goalie.

 

[madinsomniac]

Appeal to authority

Dan Bylsma made a metric ton of mistakes with roster moves and strategy... he also won a cup .... he probably lost several more with the henious mistakes he made later though... he was a bad coach... but we won a lot under him...

Coaches are typically not geniuses. And in the NHL biases for or against players are hilariously public at times... Go look up what some of the players who left the Dan Bylsma led teams said about him afterwards... he definately let personal bias cloud making the best possible moves for the team...

Im not saying that sprong is the same case, but the generic 'the coaches know best" arguement is often wrong, especially in the NHL... coaches are mostly numbnuts who used to play and know a handful of tried and true strategies...

...that why they are eminently replaceable and why their shelf lives are so short... figure out the coaches couple of tricks and how they relate to a certain team and they are pretty much doomed cause few actually adjust or adapt...

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Dan Bylsma made a metric ton of mistakes with roster moves and strategy... he also won a cup .... he probably lost several more with the henious mistakes he made later though... he was a bad coach... but we won a lot under him...

Coaches are typically not geniuses. And in the NHL biases for or against players are hilariously public at times... Go look up what some of the players who left the Dan Bylsma led teams said about him afterwards... he definately let personal bias cloud making the best possible moves for the team...

Im not saying that sprong is the same case, but the generic 'the coaches know best" arguement is often wrong, especially in the NHL... coaches are mostly numbnuts who used to play and know a handful of tried and true strategies...

...that why they are eminently replaceable and why their shelf lives are so short... figure out the coaches couple of tricks and how they relate to a certain team and they are pretty much doomed cause few actually adjust or adapt...

Until Sully proves otherwise, I'll trust a 2 time Stanley Cup coach over users in a forum. He has put this team in the best possible position to 3-peat. Same with GMJR.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Until Sully proves otherwise, I'll trust a 2 time Stanley Cup coach over users in a forum. He has put this team in the best possible position to 3-peat. Same with GMJR.

Yes we realize that your stance is that coaches never make mistakes. We've got it

 

[billybudd]

So I'm reading this stuff and people are under the impression that Sprong was really good during his call up?

He was good the one game. That was one game, though.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Yes we realize that your stance is that coaches never make mistakes. We've got it

Did I say that? I'm saying Sully has earned the benefit of the doubt, and I trust him and management over Joe Schmoe forum user. My comment was to somebody saying the coaches made a mistake by sending Sprong down. Which it obviously wasn't since we have been one of the highest scoring teams since the beginning of the year and now contending for 1st in the Metro and home ice WITHOUT Sprong.

 

[madinsomniac]

Until Sully proves otherwise, I'll trust a 2 time Stanley Cup coach over users in a forum. He has put this team in the best possible position to 3-peat. Same with GMJR.

Scotty Bowman made mistakes... everyone does... there is no harm in people calling out a percieved mistake... History bears things out pretty well in these areas....

And for the record... I have spent decades on various forums through a ton of subjects, and while many opinions, even popular ones , end up being nonsense when you look back, there are sometimes extremely valid and brilliant points expressed that turn out not only true, but widely popular later when some expert or pro adopts it...

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Scotty Bowman made mistakes... everyone does... there is no harm in people calling out a percieved mistake... History bears things out pretty well in these areas....

And for the record... I have spent decades on various forums through a ton of subjects, and while many opinions, even popular ones , end up being nonsense when you look back, there are sometimes extremely valid and brilliant points expressed that turn out not only true, but widely popular later when some expert or pro adopts it...

But I never said coaches don't make mistakes. Once again, my response was to a user who said Sully and management made a mistake by sending Sprong down.

 

[madinsomniac]

Did I say that? I'm saying Sully has earned the benefit of the doubt, and I trust him and management over Joe Schmoe forum user. My comment was to somebody saying the coaches made a mistake by sending Sprong down. Which it obviously wasn't since we have been one of the highest scoring teams since the beginning of the year and now contending for 1st in the Metro and home ice WITHOUT Sprong.

Its really hard to decide on that at this moment... there are benefits to him staying down, there are benefits to him staying up... he was playing extremely well for what is basically a rookie season. He absolutely is a NHL talent... if the Pens mangle his development and dont win a cup, then it will likely have been a mistake not letting him play things out more before banishing him to the AHL.

if they win the cup, it probably doesnt matter

If they win it and he becomes a productive player for them its a win all the way around...

its just with they way they bungled his first year, it becomes extremely important to make a judgement call on him ASAP

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Its really hard to decide on that at this moment... there are benefits to him staying down, there are benefits to him staying up... he was playing extremely well for what is basically a rookie season. He absolutely is a NHL talent... if the Pens mangle his development and dont win a cup, then it will likely have been a mistake not letting him play things out more before banishing him to the AHL.

if they win the cup, it probably doesnt matter

If they win it and he becomes a productive player for them its a win all the way around...

its just with they way they bungled his first year, it becomes extremely important to make a judgement call on him ASAP

How is he an NHL talent when he can't even stick in the NHL? He has NHL potential, but so far that's pretty much it. He wasn't playing extremely well why he was up. If that was the case he would have stayed. I don't know how they are "bungling his first year". That's the same argument users harped on about Pouliot. Management seemed to be pretty right on that. Also, if we don't win the cup it is surely not because Sprong isn't up here. Sprong at this point is far from being a player who makes or breaks a team.

 

[DearDiary]

Sprong's puck support in the offensive zone is non existent. It doesn't matter how good of a 2 way game he plays or if he gets good looks with the puck. He's playing a type of game that makes everyone else on the ice worse, because he's not supporting the player with the puck. It's something Simon does significantly better at and putting effort towards, because he knows it's something Crosby really likes in a linemate.

If you want to see a good example of puck support, recall prime Kunitz with Crosby. Always opening up for a give and go play at several points in a cycle, driving by to get a defender to defer and most of all... create OPTIONS for the puck carrier.