Proposal: Sabres - Bluejackets blockbuster

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,855
31,413
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You mean Werenski and Jenner for Power? That'd still be bad value for the Sabres.
I don't doubt it (if for no other reason than the salary cap). That particular poster just has an established history of presuming every Jackets player is worthless trash and every Jackets fan here on HF is a blind homer.
 
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The Red Helmet

Registered User
Dec 19, 2007
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This is pretty much the exact polar opposite of what the Jackets need. We need more established NHL guys for the kids to learn from, not Even More Kids. Even if they're really really awesome looking kids.
Jackets wouldn't think twice about saying yes.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,855
31,413
40N 83W (approx)
Jackets wouldn't think twice about saying yes.
What's Buffalo's biggest issue that's been keeping it from breaking through? Lack of sufficient veteran leadership to develop the kids.
What happens to Columbus if this trade goes through?

It is unquestionably apocalyptically bad value for Buffalo. But that doesn't automatically mean it's good for the other team.
 

The Red Helmet

Registered User
Dec 19, 2007
2,309
1,331
What's Buffalo's biggest issue that's been keeping it from breaking through? Lack of sufficient veteran leadership to develop the kids.
What happens to Columbus if this trade goes through?

It is unquestionably apocalyptically bad value for Buffalo. But that doesn't automatically mean it's good for the other team.
Yes it does. Florida figured out how to make it work with Reinhart and Montour. Vegas did with Eichel. St. Louis did with O'Reilly. The Sabres aren't losing because they don't "have good vets" to teach the young guys.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,855
31,413
40N 83W (approx)
Yes it does. Florida figured out how to make it work with Reinhart and Montour. Vegas did with Eichel. St. Louis did with O'Reilly. The Sabres aren't losing because they don't "have good vets" to teach the young guys.
Every single one of the players you're describing were already developed. In this proposal, the only one going to the Jackets that that's true for is Mittelstadt. It's essentially putting us on the Buffalo side of the Eichel trade.
 
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majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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You mean Werenski and Jenner for Power? That'd still be bad value for the Sabres.

I don't doubt it (if for no other reason than the salary cap). That particular poster just has an established history of presuming every Jackets player is worthless trash and every Jackets fan here on HF is a blind homer.

The Sabres have already committed to paying Owen Power $8.35m starting next season. And he's not currently playing at more than half that level.

I would rather keep Werenski. There's no guarantee that Power ever reaches his level. Including Jenner in it, and gutting whatever scant leadership the Jackets have, could mean they never properly develop the talent they already have. You can't run an NHL team that way.

From the Sabres end, given the huge financial gamble on Power, I'm definitely making the swap for Werenski and Jenner if I can. That's easy peasy. You get better immediately and maybe long term as well.

The most objectionable inclusion in the OP offer is Mittelstadt, in my opinion. It feels like people need to start taking him seriously as a real all around player.
 
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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,855
31,413
40N 83W (approx)
The Sabres have already committed to paying Owen Power $8.35m starting next season. And he's not currently playing at more than half that level.

I would rather keep Werenski. There's no guarantee that Power ever reaches his level. Including Jenner in it, and gutting whatever scant leadership the Jackets have, could mean they never properly develop the talent they already have. You can't run an NHL team that way.

From the Sabres end, given the huge financial gamble on Power, I'm definitely making the swap for Werenski and Jenner if I can. That's easy peasy. You get better immediately and maybe long term as well.
...somehow I didn't know about that extension. Comment withdrawn.
 

Uberpecker

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
3,413
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I don't doubt it (if for no other reason than the salary cap). That particular poster just has an established history of presuming every Jackets player is worthless trash and every Jackets fan here on HF is a blind homer.
Ok, I kinda get that as a Sabres fan. It's weird to me how players of less successful franchises get automatically underrated on here regardless of their actual talent.
Buffalo alone has traded two future cup winning 1Cs over the last five years and Sabres fans who knew all along had to endure the most ridiculous proposals and valuations.
Soon after, those players were the shiny heroes of course.
Kinda makes you question the level of expertise in here.
 

Uberpecker

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
3,413
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The Sabres have already committed to paying Owen Power $8.35m starting next season. And he's not currently playing at more than half that level.

I would rather keep Werenski. There's no guarantee that Power ever reaches his level. Including Jenner in it, and gutting whatever scant leadership the Jackets have, could mean they never properly develop the talent they already have. You can't run an NHL team that way.

From the Sabres end, given the huge financial gamble on Power, I'm definitely making the swap for Werenski and Jenner if I can. That's easy peasy. You get better immediately and maybe long term as well.

The most objectionable inclusion in the OP offer is Mittelstadt, in my opinion. It feels like people need to start taking him seriously as a real all around player.
Sabres have put their eggs in the Power basket, alright. The whole point of which, however, is a bet on the future with calculated risk.

Which is why a trade for Jenner and Werenski would be bad value, since neither of them has been able to lead their team to much success despite their prominent roles on their roster and no shortage of talent around them. Sure, there's much more to it like e.g. coaching and ownership.

But for all we know, Okposo might be just as effective a veteran leader as Jenner. Their respective team's success is similarly underwhelming over the last couple of seasons.
 

Uberpecker

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
3,413
1,565
The Sabres have already committed to paying Owen Power $8.35m starting next season. And he's not currently playing at more than half that level.

I would rather keep Werenski. There's no guarantee that Power ever reaches his level. Including Jenner in it, and gutting whatever scant leadership the Jackets have, could mean they never properly develop the talent they already have. You can't run an NHL team that way.

From the Sabres end, given the huge financial gamble on Power, I'm definitely making the swap for Werenski and Jenner if I can. That's easy peasy. You get better immediately and maybe long term as well.

The most objectionable inclusion in the OP offer is Mittelstadt, in my opinion. It feels like people need to start taking him seriously as a real all around player.
Mittelstadt is for real. He'd be a p/g player easily if his teammates came even remotely close to last year's level.
 

Faceboner

Registered User
Jan 6, 2022
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1,179
No; there were several other players involved. That the raw asset value ostensibly favors Columbus doesn't change the fact that it's the opposite of what we need. We're in this to build a competitive NHL roster, not minmax some hypothetical abstract concept of "value".
I could agree with that but if any rebuilding team were offered that trade they take it and run
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
35,469
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As a neutral fan I would say Jenner and Werenski isn’t enough to get power alone, and I would think you would have to add to that.

Owen Power is living on his draft position alone.

He is nothing special. Wouldn't surprise me if he only turns into a top 4 Dman ..

A top 4 d with highly questionable defensive skills.

This guy is not 1st overall talent.
 

The Red Helmet

Registered User
Dec 19, 2007
2,309
1,331
Every single one of the players you're describing were already developed. In this proposal, the only one going to the Jackets that that's true for is Mittelstadt. It's essentially putting us on the Buffalo side of the Eichel trade.
No it's not. We got Petyton freaking Krebs and a 1st. Vegas didn't send us a 6'8" former #1 overall pick defensman that can skate very well. This trade is ludicrous. Boone freaking Jenner and Zach Werenski aren't riding into Buffalo to save us from our hockey misery. Trading Power, our best forward and 2 great prospects for Boone and Werenski is a move that will feed the drought, not get us closer to ending it.
 

The Red Helmet

Registered User
Dec 19, 2007
2,309
1,331
What's Buffalo's biggest issue that's been keeping it from breaking through? Lack of sufficient veteran leadership to develop the kids.
What happens to Columbus if this trade goes through?

It is unquestionably apocalyptically bad value for Buffalo. But that doesn't automatically mean it's good for the other team.
It's actually not about veteran leadership. It's about having vets that can actually still play. The Sabres fill the bottom of the roster with vets that are way past their prime and borderline NHLer's. The need to fill those spots will good vets still in their prime.

The Sabes needed to do what Detroit did last off season and instead tried to run it back with guys like Okposo, Jost, Girgensons and Olofsson. That's the problem. Trading away our best young talent for one good vet forward and a defenseman that had his best year as a rookie and is injured all the time would be a terrible, terrible move.

The deal doesn't work for the Jackets, it doesn't work for the Sabres... it's okay to stop arguing over it because it's not a good deal to begin with.
It's also okay to keep arguing over it.
 
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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,855
31,413
40N 83W (approx)
No it's not. We got Petyton freaking Krebs and a 1st.
Today I learned Alex Tuch doesn't exist.

Look, I get it. You're offended and you want to yell at somebody. I suggest printing out a copy of my post and affixing it to a brick wall and using that, because I'm not interested in being mansplained yet again about my team and about hockey works.
 

DJN21

Registered User
Aug 8, 2011
9,483
2,625
Rochester
Dude, Kekalainen's job is already in serious jeopardy; that kind of hot take doesn't really have the impact that you think it does.

Consider also the long-term effects on the market if a deal like this went down. Suddenly we don't have Owen Power, First Overall Pick - we're attempting to replace the highly skilled vets we just lost by moving Owen Power, Recently Deemed Expendable By Buffalo And So Might Be A Bust. With similar concerns and hesitation attached to Savoie and Rosen. And with folks knowing that we've gone from "really want" to "desperately need" w/r/t skilled veteran mentors. We'd be obliged to turn right around and come up with a similarly unbalanced deal in someone else's favor to restock on mentors, only this time we'll be on the failing value side AND folks will have seen it coming and seen these guys moved before AND we'll be drowning and thus in a position for GMs to throw us anchors, so we're exceedingly likely to end up even more badly ripped off in the balance.

Or, in other words, from the Columbus perspective this is yet another instance of that well-known "flip him for what you REALLY want" approach that is a sure-fire way to fail badly in the trade market. We'd win that initial deal, for damn sure, but lose all the subsequent ones necessary to actually build a useful roster. But hey, we'll at least get to point to that one trade and say "boy, we sure got to make Buffalo look stupid that one time, yeah, didn't we?" And everyone else will smile and nod and point out how we're entering Rebuild Year 8 while Buffalo is actually winning playoff rounds.

Seriously, this stuff always has to be needs-based. Always. Otherwise you will lose long-term.

This was a lot of words to say we fleeced Buffalo. and btw Boone Jenner isn't gonna make or break either franchise. I understand that character and leadership is very vey important to a team. but no one can with a straight face say getting power for jenner isn't the stupidest thing imaginable.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,855
31,413
40N 83W (approx)
This was a lot of words to say we fleeced Buffalo. and btw Boone Jenner isn't gonna make or break either franchise. I understand that character and leadership is very vey important to a team. but no one can with a straight face say getting power for jenner isn't the stupidest thing imaginable.
I am getting really, really, really tired of this constant reuse of the strawman that the proposal was Power For Jenner. Yes, it's the latest in-thing to mock Jackets fans for not wanting to move Jenner. We also don't want to move Zach Werenski - remember him?
 

Byrddog

Lifer
Nov 23, 2007
7,483
827
As a neutral fan I would say Jenner and Werenski isn’t enough to get power alone, and I would think you would have to add to that.
Agree Power is gong to be a super stud. He’s still a pup. All Buffalo is short on now is the D maturing and consistency in net. UkaPekka looks Veznia like some games and AHL I. Other games. It been a long haul for Sabers but they are almost there. Tage Thompson is the best power forward to come along in years. The team is enjoyable to watch .
 

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