Player Discussion Ryan Nugent-Hopkins '16-17 and Beyond

[SomeDudeOTI]

It was presented as speculation in figurative terms. But with the precept that its a commonly felt natural dynamic. thus survivor guilt being a very real human phenomenon.

Its application to this situation is of course speculation and was presented in that spirt.

That said the thought of what happened to Hall, instead of Nuge, would certainly be on Nuges mind and something he has to deal with. Eberle too. Players in any teamsport would be imbued with this much of a consideration of close others.

Yes, speculation, agreed. I just think you're reaching on this one. If you'll recall I attributed it to a slow day at the office.

As for nuge, i think they all knew going into the summer that change was coming and I don't think it will affect him like that. He's a professional and knows hockey moves are made and will work on his weaknesses to be a better player, not because of hall or larsson, but for himself and the team.

Here's a little more speculation though... if there was any fire beneath the smoke of all the hall rumours over the years, Nuge would know this and could have been quite prepared for the trade.

 

[Replacement*]

The rat pack never bothered to show up for those games so no I don't think they were deflated. They genuinely didn't care. Which was the problem.

If That was the case then get rid of ALL of them. Not saying it was. But you and others should hope it isn't the case because then it won't change.

 

[Replacement*]

look at this 6M dollars sucking so called hockey player..
I say we burn his jerseys..

He looks pink with envy... I bet Larsson played better golf than him too.

Something about Nuge golfing fits. More than playing hockey in WC. Hopefully he'll take up golf somewhere else.

This guy doesn't give two ***** about anything. Hall and Eberle at least get bothered and frustrated with losing. this guys aw shucks attitude. ****, its like Schultz.

 

[Replacement*]

Yes, speculation, agreed. I just think you're reaching on this one. If you'll recall I attributed it to a slow day at the office.

As for nuge, i think they all knew going into the summer that change was coming and I don't think it will affect him like that. He's a professional and knows hockey moves are made and will work on his weaknesses to be a better player, not because of hall or larsson, but for himself and the team.

Here's a little more speculation though... if there was any fire beneath the smoke of all the hall rumours over the years, Nuge would know this and could have been quite prepared for the trade.

Slow day? Oh yeah.

Went to two concerts on the weekend, had a fantastic time, bit tired and out of sorts and a day off. Plus we were out so much in the sun stayed indoors a bit today just chewing hockey.

Greatest thing about being older is the feeling you're not really missing out on too much on a lazy day. When I was younger I was hyper and could hardly sit still long enough to type something.

 

[Aerchon]

Something about Nuge golfing fits. More than playing hockey in WC. Hopefully he'll take up golf somewhere else.

This guy doesn't give two ***** about anything. Hall and Eberle at least get bothered and frustrated with losing. this guys aw shucks attitude. ****, its like Schultz.

You put way too much stock in personality.

Guys like Gagner, Hall, and Yak wear thier hearts on thier sleave but that obviously has zero positive effect on the team winning.

Guys like Nuge, McDavid, and Leon are more reserved but can get the job done on the ice despite that.

Comparing Schultz to Nuge is sickening. You need to separate your personal bias based on perceives personality.

 

[Blitzago*]

Something about Nuge golfing fits. More than playing hockey in WC. Hopefully he'll take up golf somewhere else.

This guy doesn't give two ***** about anything. Hall and Eberle at least get bothered and frustrated with losing. this guys aw shucks attitude. ****, its like Schultz.

This is a ****ing ridiculous post, are player's not allowed to have personal lives aswell? You were probably upset aswell when eberle turned down team canada due to a person matter.

 

[Replacement*]

You put way too much stock in personality.

Guys like Gagner, Hall, and Yak wear thier hearts on thier sleave but that obviously has zero positive effect on the team winning.

Guys like Nuge, McDavid, and Leon are more reserved but can get the job done on the ice despite that.

Comparing Schultz to Nuge is sickening. You need to separate your personal bias based on perceives personality.

Frankly it makes me barf that you would put Nuge in the same sentence as those two. There is absolutely nothing, other than the position they play, that is similar in these players.

Like so many here before him Nuge got rocked several times, found out what the NHL was really like, especially WC play, and he's been more and more a peripheral players since. if people can't see this I suggest they watch the amount of times he lets up, does a button hook, is reluctant to take the puck to money areas or work himself down now etc. Even when in the perfect position in defensive end he has trouble fighting for puck or controlling his check. These things don't change. The one thing you can't change at this level of pro sports is trepidation. Once it develops its over and the player will never be the same.

Those doubting this, that's fine, saw the same signs in Gilbert Brule, MPS, Schultz, so many others. If you don't love the physical contact don't even play in the WC. Don't waste my time half assing it out there avoiding hits. The few times Nuge does get hit he just gets rocked. I see no evidence of him even learning how to take a hit 6 seasons in. I'm just so done with this guy.

 

[Draiskull]

just gonna leave this here..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAial7SrZ1I

Also:
RNH 55GP 39hits
Drai 72GP 38hits
McD 45GP 12hits

Add in the fact Nuge had 90+ hits in 2015\16

Maybe Drai found out how tough being in NHL is after the first 40 games.. explains his disappearing act afterwards.

 

[Replacement*]

This is a ****ing ridiculous post, are player's not allowed to have personal lives aswell? You were probably upset aswell when eberle turned down team canada due to a person matter.

Only for 5-10mins..

Anybody that's taking my posts completely seriously at this moment doesn't know my posting history very well. I'm just pure venting man. Its how I flush this team out of my system occasionally. Or any frustration. Its very cathartic.

WE should have a thread on this board where we can all just tell this team and org to **** itself real hard.

 

[KCC]

Something about Nuge golfing fits. More than playing hockey in WC. Hopefully he'll take up golf somewhere else.

This guy doesn't give two ***** about anything. Hall and Eberle at least get bothered and frustrated with losing. this guys aw shucks attitude. ****, its like Schultz.

Hold on a second here. So because he doesn't show the frustration of losing in interviews he doesn't care? Come on now. Personally I think you're being very judgmental.

I think it's more a long the lines of having the same type of personality as McDavid in which he is careful to say the right thing and not ruffle any feathers. He's very reserved and quiet, but that could be just who he is. It's the other way around in which I think he's handled it well. If he got upset all the time by the losing people would just say he's a whiny baby who needs to get out of town etc.

And I do see your post above mine where people shouldn't take what you say seriously, well I am.

 

[Aerchon]

Frankly it makes me barf that you would put Nuge in the same sentence as those two. There is absolutely nothing, other than the position they play, that is similar in these players.

Like so many here before him Nuge got rocked several times, found out what the NHL was really like, especially WC play, and he's been more and more a peripheral players since. if people can't see this I suggest they watch the amount of times he lets up, does a button hook, is reluctant to take the puck to money areas or work himself down now etc. Even when in the perfect position in defensive end he has trouble fighting for puck or controlling his check. These things don't change. The one thing you can't change at this level of pro sports is trepidation. Once it develops its over and the player will never be the same.

Those doubting this, that's fine, saw the same signs in Gilbert Brule, MPS, Schultz, so many others. If you don't love the physical contact don't even play in the WC. Don't waste my time half assing it out there avoiding hits. The few times Nuge does get hit he just gets rocked. I see no evidence of him even learning how to take a hit 6 seasons in. I'm just so done with this guy.

Well now you know how most people felt about Gagner. Different reasons but that same feeling of just wanting him gone.

Unlike Gagner tho. If we do trade Nuge we will most certainly regret it because Nuge will have a solid nhl career no matter where he plays.

Not bringing up Gagner as anything but a good example of a frustrating player to watch.

 

[Replacement*]

Well now you know how most people felt about Gagner. Different reasons but that same feeling of just wanting him gone.

Unlike Gagner tho. If we do trade Nuge we will most certainly regret it because Nuge will have a solid nhl career no matter where he plays.

Not bringing up Gagner as anything but a good example of a frustrating player to watch.

BOTH are, and both are contractually sated by an org with a propensity to hand out lottery winnings.

I mean what do these guys care? They're made men. They pretend to care, say enough right things to keep the pitchforks and rabble settled a bit.

Can't say I blame them but doesn't mean I'm not entirely sick of it here.

 

[Replacement*]

Hold on a second here. So because he doesn't show the frustration of losing in interviews he doesn't care? Come on now. Personally I think you're being very judgmental.

I think it's more a long the lines of having the same type of personality as McDavid in which he is careful to say the right thing and not ruffle any feathers. He's very reserved and quiet, but that could be just who he is. It's the other way around in which I think he's handled it well. If he got upset all the time by the losing people would just say he's a whiny baby who needs to get out of town etc.

And I do see your post above mine where people shouldn't take what you say seriously, well I am.

Now stop being judgemental about my judgemental ruffling of feathers dang it.

jk aside I don't care what he looks like, I'm saying he likely doesn't care. How much including this contract has he made? 45-50M. I doubt I'd care either.

Again, made men. At least with Hall and Eberle you do know that losing bothers them appreciably. With Nuge theres no indication whatsoever he cares.

I think Hall and Eberle are just naturally more competitive and thus their production survives the contractual payout.

 

[Stud Muffin]

just gonna leave this here..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAial7SrZ1I

Also:
RNH 55GP 39hits
Drai 72GP 38hits
McD 45GP 12hits

Add in the fact Nuge had 90+ hits in 2015\16

Maybe Drai found out how tough being in NHL is after the first 40 games.. explains his disappearing act afterwards.

I would rather have my centres not putting themselves out of position to hit a guy every single shift.

 

[Replacement*]

just gonna leave this here..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAial7SrZ1I

Also:
RNH 55GP 39hits
Drai 72GP 38hits
McD 45GP 12hits

Add in the fact Nuge had 90+ hits in 2015\16

Maybe Drai found out how tough being in NHL is after the first 40 games.. explains his disappearing act afterwards.

Oh for crying out loud. If you can't see from watching games that Drai is bigger, stronger, more physical in bumping people off pucks and in retaining pucks and is harder to play against I can't help you.

McDavid and Drai all day any day over Nuge.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Oh boy, now we are judging a player by an interview after golf.

This is pure gold. People actually believe this ****.

Done with a player for half assing what exactly? From the same person who thought Roy and Gagner, who were softer than Nuge, wanted to keep them because reasons?

Yuuuup.

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

Slow day? Oh yeah.

Went to two concerts on the weekend, had a fantastic time, bit tired and out of sorts and a day off. Plus we were out so much in the sun stayed indoors a bit today just chewing hockey.

Greatest thing about being older is the feeling you're not really missing out on too much on a lazy day. When I was younger I was hyper and could hardly sit still long enough to type something.

I rediscovered the joy of napping a few years ago

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

One of the funniest things about those interviews was watching them and everyone saying how they weren't very good at golf.. then it got to hendo's turn and he said Ebs and Nuge are pretty good. I lol'd "Lots of Practice!"

 

[Staghorn]

Is there any indication anywhere that RNH is taking serious conditioning seriously this offseason? He has to be one of the frailest players in the NHL, so if I was his coach, GM, trainer or a fan of his, I would want to hear all about his plan to gain 15lbs of muscle, his plan to get far stronger, his plan to get better at faceoffs and so on. You hear these things about other players??? Why not this one who can't stay healthy while carrying his $6 Mil USD to the bank?? If I was RNH, I'd be bloody embarrased about how the past few seasons have panned out and where this team has gone....

 

[Replacement*]

Oh boy, now we are judging a player by an interview after golf.

This is pure gold. People actually believe this ****.

Done with a player for half assing what exactly? From the same person who thought Roy and Gagner, who were softer than Nuge, wanted to keep them because reasons?

Yuuuup.

OT post is OT. What does this post have to do with the thread. What do any of your posts have to do with any thread other than bemoaning what gets stated here. Oh the horror.

 

[Replacement*]

I rediscovered the joy of napping a few years ago

Its underrated. I can siesta with the besta.

One of the funniest things about those interviews was watching them and everyone saying how they weren't very good at golf.. then it got to hendo's turn and he said Ebs and Nuge are pretty good. I lol'd "Lots of Practice!"

Oh yeah. Theres a whole meme thing to that. Oilers and golf. PRACTICE!

 

[Replacement*]

Is there any indication anywhere that RNH is taking serious conditioning seriously this offseason? He has to be one of the frailest players in the NHL, so if I was his coach, GM, trainer or a fan of his, I would want to hear all about his plan to gain 15lbs of muscle, his plan to get far stronger, his plan to get better at faceoffs and so on. You hear these things about other players??? Why not this one who can't stay healthy while carrying his $6 Mil USD to the bank?? If I was RNH, I'd be bloody embarrased about how the past few seasons have panned out and where this team has gone....

People looked at two pictures on the internet once showing Nuge flexing his one muscle and its never been an issue since. He's all good with training now. Back to the video games and *training* professionally, cough, with his brother.

Some players on this sorry team can get away with anything. If Ryan Smyth was training with his brother every off season the org would shoot him out of a cannon into the sun.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

May as well insert this here. Was going to be a new thread but now you made this one.

The Survivor Guilt of Ryan Nugent Hopkins?;

Now I'm speaking of this figuratively, of course, and being cast out of the Oilers could hardly be considered a traumatic concept for most, but for Hall he, by his own statements felt badly about the trade, felt slighted, and that there was no other way for him to take this. Hall wanted to win here, of that there is no doubt.

Hopkins as we know was drafted by the Oilers instead of Larsson who was drafted 4th in same draft year.

FF to this year and Nuge, through his own on ice regression, and not matching contractual worth of his 6M contract, is not even in the ballpark in trade value for Larsson. Shero won't even consider any less than Hall in trade.

So that Nuge see's Hall, who he full well knows has been the leader of this team the entire time Nuge has been playing here, traded instead due to Nuge not progressing commensurately with Larsson.

Not only was Hall a leader on the ice, the whole rat pack here Centered around him. Following him around like brothers. Benefitting from his talent, presence, confidence, and verve.

So Nuge, due to his own relative futility (as compared to Hall) stands by and watches Hall take the trade bullet instead and have his dream of winning with the Oilers ended while Nuge, through lesser development, gets to stay and again knowing full well that his mere presence here is due to how little his contract and trade value is.

Now these are professional players but I can't help but think the Hall trade, and Nuge knowing why he avoided the bullet(ordinary season), that it won't exactly help his self confidence, feeling of integration here, and what his value is.

McLellans proclamations notwithstanding there wasn't much to recommend of Nuges play in this season. I wonder how long before he's either 3rd lined or his contract is seen as negligible value here.

I don't see the Hall trade much helping Nuge. I wonder if Nuge even continues to relate to the team the same way and that if pro hockey wonderland is over for him. Really I think he's been a kid with a 6M contract that has been content to bask in that.

RNH after '14-15 most definitely had more value than Larsson at that point. Last season was awful for RNH and as a result his value dipped. Meanwhile Hall's last 2 season's were poor for him as well so guess what? His value dropped. We did not trade '13-14 Hall for '14-15 Larsson. NJ have Zajac and Henrique down the middle but lacked a true offensive force up front since they lost Kovalchuk and Parise. NJ didn't have a spare top pairing guy like Nashville did when they moved Jones (I doubt that they would've taken Hall for Jones) so NJ needed a reason to part with their top pairing RHD and Hall was the guy that they wanted/maybe Chia wanted to move so it was done.

Had we drafted Larsson he would've been wrecked here. Hall hasn't been keeping up with Seguin or Tarasenko for that matter. I guess he should have guilt about that? Although unlike Larsson vs. RNH, Seguin has left Hall in the dust the last 3 seasons.

Pinning all of this on RNH's poor season and lack of linear progression is laughable, at the end of the day RNH gets to play with the best young player in the NHL, live next to his home province, have a bunch of bruisers surrounding him to help bring the best out of his game and oh yeah, he makes $6 million a year. McLellan holds him in very high regard, Chia may as well. Maybe having a coach that truly believes in him will do wonders for him? He probably hasn't had that since Renney.

RNH plays a team game, we added 2 high end team players in Lucic and Larsson, while moving out the best of our non team players in Hall. This will be a better team this season and I for one would not be surprised if RNH is our 2nd or 3rd best player this season.

Is there really 0 chance that PC wasn't looking to move Hall > RNH ?

To the Hall boosters there is 0 chance. I have heard otherwise. I also believe otherwise. I'm on record as saying that I've valued RNH and Draisaitl more than I did Hall.

It hasn't happened a lot because very few, if any, NHL teams have multiple #1 draft picks. Very few NHL teams have had so many concurrent high picks. A lot of teams will have maybe a couple. Very few have 3-4, or several, that get into the league same time. Schultz was also part of the pack.

But I do continue to think this impacts Nuge. I think his place on the team was defined at least partly, or a lot, on a Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Schultz sphere. A lot of you think Nuge will easily survive losing that. I don't. I think Nuge is still very much a kid in mind and attitude. With 6M cheques rolling in. He's a guy with a Richie Rich grin whether he's scoring, playing poorly, or anything. Contractually sated at best.

This is a pro player that 6yrs into his pro career is still offseason training with his brother. Who's made not one appreciable change in his physical stature to better suit and accomodate his role as an NHL WC center.

I guess I can be happy and content thinking it might happen sometime.

He's easily the most mature of the trio of Eberle, RNH and Hall. His game has always been mature beyond his age as well.

I also question his training with his brother, unless he makes big strides this offseason management and coaching need to have a heart to heart with him about that IMO.

That said he has clearly gotten bigger and stronger since his rookie season, the height of which was the '14-15 season.

So in your estimation it wouldn't even occur to Nuge that his friend got traded for the player that passed Nuge in value since his draft year? The player picked 4th that year who now has greater worth than Nuge? So much so that the #1 pick (Nuge) couldn't even be considered in trade for the 4th(Larsson now?

if that doesn't occur to him theres something wrong with his motivation.

The entire time Hall has been in the NHL he's tried to keep up with Sequin. With Hall and Sequin being too fine thoroughbreds. Unlike Nuge still trying to find his way 6yrs in.

Teams make trades that benefit their teams, we had a surplus of wingers so we moved a good one for something that we had nothing of.

They don't talk with 3rd tier fans and rabble like me.

They already know six rings and winning anyhoo.

jk aside McLennan is furthering this notion that RNH is somehow indispensable. I doubt that view survives this season. RNH got the benefit of doubt due to injuries this season. But those of us that have been around longer know this mulligan has been played a few times.

You're right, he got the benefit of the doubt for last season, however McLellan knows these guys VERY well from his years in SJ and now his season here and him comparing RNH to Pavelski is one hell of a compliment.

Leon looked great.

I personally think him and Halls success when they were ripping it had almost as much to do with Leon as it did Hall.

I also think when Leon and Hall struggled at times it was fairly even for thier responsibility.

I think Leon projects to potentially be better than Nuge but is not there yet.

We all know having Hall as a linemate can add some shine and I think that is what makes you think he is currently better than Nuge.

Management legitimately is high on Nuge. For a variety of reasons. I will never take Oilers management's opinion as gospel but Chiarelli and McLellan are solid enough hockey minds to at least take some of that into consideration.

Yup. Another problem that I see is the same poster that's saying that Nuge should be shamed was also saying that Drai would be lost without Hall. So a lost Drai >>> RNH. I guess Replacement thinks that RNH = Gagner or something

Well wait, no, we could have just picked Larsson. Too bad we didn't.

This way we get to lose Hall, the best player on the team the last half dozen years, while having to continue to watch Nuge drift. That's like a double whammy. No Hall AND I have to continue to stomach Nuge's increasingly peripheral and disconnected play.

Larsson would've been eaten up and crapped out as our #1D here as an 18 year old. It's best that he was away from this tire fire until he found his stride and now we got him without the Oilers stink on him.

One of the funniest things about those interviews was watching them and everyone saying how they weren't very good at golf.. then it got to hendo's turn and he said Ebs and Nuge are pretty good. I lol'd "Lots of Practice!"

That and they've got some pretty damn good hands which I figure would translate to golf (I'm not a golfer so just my guess). Schultz apparently was the teams golf ringer

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Is there any indication anywhere that RNH is taking serious conditioning seriously this offseason? He has to be one of the frailest players in the NHL, so if I was his coach, GM, trainer or a fan of his, I would want to hear all about his plan to gain 15lbs of muscle, his plan to get far stronger, his plan to get better at faceoffs and so on. You hear these things about other players??? Why not this one who can't stay healthy while carrying his $6 Mil USD to the bank?? If I was RNH, I'd be bloody embarrased about how the past few seasons have panned out and where this team has gone....

I can see him getting flack for last season, injuries or not, he was garbage. However he was damn good for us in '14-15.

 

[Replacement*]

. Another problem that I see is the same poster that's saying that Nuge should be shamed was also saying that Drai would be lost without Hall. So a lost Drai >>> RNH. I guess Replacement thinks that RNH = Gagner or something

Not what I Stated. What I did say is that Drai is very early into growing his confidence in the NHL and has had precious little time to do that. he found magic with Hall and the team once again devalues that productive experience that a player is having and removes it from him.

We did that with Gagner/Penner

We did that with Yak/Roy

Now the team doing it with Drai/Hall

its just a narrative that to me says we really don't care about players being mentored, they shouldn't need it, whack, and off they are on their own.

It hasn't been a very successful strategy pulling the rug out from players when they hit a good stride.

ftr I've stated Drai will recover from this but that he will struggle somewhat this season. He's still learning the NHL now he's doing it without one of the best forwards in the league.