RW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) III
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All the examples you used are very young guys who had to move across the world at very young age. Some don't even talk english when they move there. No wonder they didn't match their FEL points in their first AHL season. The same trend happens to SEL players who are not in draft top 10 . They just had those draft top10 players who are so good players that the transformation is easier for them.
If you didn't know in Europe we have Champions Hockey League where all the best non KHL-teams play against each other. It has been played for 2 years. Last year in quarterfinals there were 4 teams from FEL and 4 teams from SHL. This year 4 from FEL, 3 SEL, 1 NLA. That should give you some kind clue about best european hockey leagues.
oStealthKiller*
Master Monkey Herder
And besides, Nhle says nothing about quality of the league just the average points a player from that league generates on average when they enter the nhl. It's a player analysis tool, not a league analysis tool
Yeah, the AHL teams might have a comparable or even better 1st line, but the depth of FEL teams is simply better.
I've lived in NA for 9 years now, I watch AHL games every now and then and also Liiga games. Liiga is better (and very close to SEL, as you can easily tell from champions hockey league). I'd equate AHL to NLA, they also have some great players that could be Liiga/Elitserien stars, but the depth of those teams isn't what it is in Finland/Sweden.
I believe you have a bit of a flawed method if you are trying to look at the relative levels of the leagues (and not just 11 FEL players transition to AHL/NHL):
a) there is an adjustment period, a similar drop in production is expected for players to transition to either direction between leagues, let's call this the adjustment period effect
b) there is a period of "gaining the trust" in a new league, new team. Let's call this "starting from the bottom" effect.
As it is, you need an adequately large sample size of players transitioning in both directions to get knowledge on relative levels of translatability (let's guess 50 will give us 10% accuracy).
In case you are just comparing euro leagues translatability to the NA game, then yes, in principle we shouldn't have to mind the adjustment period or or the starting of the bottom effect. BUT we should consider the sample size. A sample size of 11 might have a disproportionate amount of players transitioning from top lines to 4th lines.
This effect could further be enhanced with the style of game that is played in different leagues: In principle Finland for the last decade has produced world class lower line players due to the old junior program. This way there might be bias towards Finnish players getting lower line spots even though their more offensively oriented NLA counterparts haven't been able to show the defensive ability --> only the top six NLA players have survived. What is the sample size of NLA players in NHLe by the way?
EDIT: Found a quick article study that looked also at the "Crossing the atlantic" effect. http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/puck/article.php?articleid=180
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BB88
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None of these guys were Pulju/Laine level prospects so I wouldn't look at these to guess how they could do next year, they are also completely different players.
Let's look at prospects who left to AHL right away after their draft, the new waive Euro top prospects,
to get a better feeling about their potential next year.
Pasta, 0 games at SHL, 24 points in 36 Allsvenskan games, +1year 28 points in 25 AHL game while being the youngest player in the entire league, 27 points in 46 NHL games while being the youngest player in the entire league.
Nylander, 7 points in 22 SHL games, +1year 32 points in 37 games in the AHL.
Mikko Rantanen, 28 points in 56 Liiga games, +1year 56 points in 47 AHL games.
Julius Honka(D-prospect), 56 points in 62 WHL games, +1year, 31 points in 68 AHL games.
All these were 18y at the start of their AHL career, all of them outside of Rantanen were small, light players.
Nylander was killing the SHL before switching, Rantanen played I think 1 AHL game at 18, he's been 19 for almost all his games. I do fully expect the Laine or Pjulu to break the conversion rate, for multiple reasons. First they will be a year older. Secondly, the AHL is a developmental league they are practically guaranteed 1st line minutes regardless if an older player is more suited to help a team win, that is not as true in Liiga, as the teams will lose them before they develop. Kapanen who has had an up and down start, while not getting top line minutes due to leafs abundance of young wingers (Sosh, Hyman, Brown) has not seen a massive jump in numbers from Liiga to AHL despite becoming a year older (21 in 41 last year, 25 in 41 at the AHL level). Fiala's mid year switch stayed in line, and he progressed the next year, Kempe's aren't out of line either.
Remember these equivalencies make no attempt for future growth, and I actually think they are worse for the NCAA than any other league. They do run into problems when used in projection, when lumped in with NA leagues.
Pulju wont be on the team, thats pretty sure atm but Laine has really good chance.
Depends a bit what kind winger they get for the team but headcoach is in love with Laine so that ups his possibility. 3rd line + 1st pp is what believe his wc role is.
BB88
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I know Nylander was killing it after the draft on SHL and that has been part of my point with these talks, how much 1 offseason can change these prospects at this stage, and how you can't just look at theit numbers pre draft against men and say this is how they'd do.
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gwh
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48 european teams in the group stage. 8 teams in quarter finals are fin/swe 50/50.
MMANumminen
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None of these 3 guys (paholaine) are better than Donskoi last year nor ready to play in NHL. All of them will have good career in NHL but it will take time.
Aho will need lot of strenght, Laine needs acceleration and Pulju needs more ice time to gain experience. Aho might steal a spot for CAR but others should stay one more year in Finland or go to AHL
Aho will need lot of strenght, Laine needs acceleration and Pulju needs more ice time to gain experience. Aho might steal a spot for CAR but others should stay one more year in Finland or go to AHL
Hmmm, I have to say that I disagree with Aho here. Just looking at his stats shows that he has been even better than Donskoi was last season. Regular season: Aho 45 points in 45 games, Donskoi 49 points in 58 games. Better PPG for Aho. In the playoffs: Aho so far 12 points in 9 games, Donskoi 22 points in 19 games. Better PPG again for Aho.
It's also good to remember that Donskoi was playing almost the whole season with Junttila and Kemppainen, whom he had very good chemistry with. Aho's linemates have changed much more, but still he has been able to produce better.
I definitely see that Laine and Pulju are not as NHL ready as Aho, and they definitely are not better than Donskoi - yet. But from Aho I do expect quite similar or even slightly better point totals than Donskoi has had this season, if Aho will play a full season in the NHL.
teravaineSAROS
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Yeah and Aho is alot younger so i guess Aho will develop much more than donskoi did in the offseason. If i remember correctly Aho was borderline NHLer after carolinas last summer camp?
This was when Lemieux and Jagr both weighed about 210 lbs. When scouts say that Laine reminds them of Lemieux and/or Jagr, I can almost guarantee that they refer to the two in their lighter years. I do feel, however, that Laine plays a heavier game right now than either of them played back then at the same weight.
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theIceWookie
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Regardless of his perception, he most certainly was tearing up the SHL before coming over to NA.
He had 20 points in 21 games. The leading scorer on Modo that year had 25 points in over DOUBLE the games. He was 6th in the league in PPG. ON MODO
Francis Pare: "Liiga is a step up from AHL as well, I thought it was a lot better".
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...-francis-pare-bratislava-slovan-khl-interview
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...-francis-pare-bratislava-slovan-khl-interview
Biggest thing ive noticed about Puljujarvi that stands out. He glides so effortlessly, and quickly, it looks impossible to beat him to the puck because of that and his size, hes so hard to defend too because of it, as well as even get around him.
His skating is really something special, how he can move the puck on his stick at the same time as he dances around.
Look at his long reach too... No doubt why people call him the "next finnish flash"
I think itll be harder for Laine to use his body to create space in the NHL compared to Puljujarvi using his speed mainly.
But Laine will be able to do it, he's also extremely skilled and with his strength, just like Barkov, he will have some of those similarities to his game
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teravaineSAROS
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QnebO
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This laine kid... wow.. 4 good individual efforts to this period, and then scores top shelf with absolute BOMB one time slapshot topshelf. Love this series, Aho with a goal too, 1st period played.
That laine shot truly is Ovechkin, Kovy or so type of a shot. It looks surreal when you see him blasting it full power.
That laine shot truly is Ovechkin, Kovy or so type of a shot. It looks surreal when you see him blasting it full power.
We have quite a duel going on between the two best Finnish prospects. Aho scored already the first goal for Kärpät and now Laine scored Tappara's 1st goal with a wicked onetimer! Just waiting for Pulju to start showing his potential too. I definitely hope he will start delivering too.
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