RW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) III

[Battle Lin]

both finns are ready to play next year imo, if anything jesse with his elite skating and great size has a better chance of playing more, he can already play in his own zone and in the neutral, and keep up with the league

 

[QnebO]

I think Laine could play in the NHL next season.

I think Puljujarvi still needs at least another season, maybe two or three. I don't think he's good enough to play in an NHL top 9. I don't even know about the AHL. I think it'd be rushing him to have him playing in the NHL, and for a player who still is a pretty raw player, I think he should be developing somewhere where he can get as many minutes as possible. He should stay with Karpat.

If Pulju plays in Kärpät top 6, it means he is too good for AHL top 9 definitely. Last year Donskoi was Kärpät top player, he made the cut right away in the sharks top 6, so you're overrating AHL alot. It is not even better than Liiga.

 

[MMANumminen]

If he keeps developing he might become the next Marko Anttila. Big and skilled.

It will be cool seeing him tear it up at U-18

 

[MPStoEberletoHall*]

Any chance he plays for Finland at the WC?

 

[Apotheosis]

Meh..

McDavid's passing>Marner's passing

Nobody was talking about McDavid here.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Obviously he has the tools and size to make an impact in the NHL right now. But, that being said if he doesn't make the NHL, what would he be doing? Going back to play in Finland? I believe the Sting (OHL) have his rights in Jr. as well.

I reckon his path would be very similiar to Rantanens where he plays in the AHL and has a chance to get called up

 

[kunekune]

Any chance he plays for Finland at the WC?

By WC do you mean world cup or world championship?

If it is world cup Laine chances are none to slim but if it is world championship it is good to great.

For world championship Finns dont have many goalscorers and Kojo(the coach) is in love with the kid. A month ago there was a lot talk that this years world championship comes too quickly for Laine but he has taken massive steps in the last couple months and his stock for WC-squad has raised a lot.

edit. This is the reason I don't believe Laine will play in U18 WJC in any case. Even if Tappara loses to Kärpät, Im pretty sure Kojo wants Laine in mens team rather than sending him to u18

 

[93LEAFS]

Obviously he has the tools and size to make an impact in the NHL right now. But, that being said if he doesn't make the NHL, what would he be doing? Going back to play in Finland? I believe the Sting (OHL) have his rights in Jr. as well.

Sarnia would be a joke for him, at worst he's in the AHL.

I reckon his path would be very similiar to Rantanens where he plays in the AHL and has a chance to get called up

If he goes 2nd, and no borderline team miraculously moves up 8 to 10 spot, I'd be very surprised if he does spend anytime outside the NHL barring massive struggles. He seems easily ready for 3rd line plus pp time role. While he can improve on things, he has NHL ready skills (mainly his shot) and has size. If Leafs got him, I'd fully expect him to be a middle 6 LW who gets favorable zone starts and pp time. He's arguably the most NHL ready player as he doesn't have the massive adjustments all centers face. I don't see him not being able to carve this out with all bottom 10 teams. The only way I see him going down is a loss of confidence, inability to grasp a teams strategy and/or problems adapting to small ice.

Realistically how often does the 2nd pick not start in the NHL? Since 2006 only JVR, Murray (would have but lockout year and suffered season ending injury in November), and Reinhart. 3rd overall its a bit longer with Toews, Turris, Gudbranson, Huberdeau, Drouin and Strome, you could also include Drai as he didn't play a full year.

Laine is likely to go to a worse team than the Avs, so I think he's much less likely to be sent down than Rantanen.

 

[FinProspects]

Laine is a relatively good skater for his size, but I wouldn't say that he's a good or great skater in general. It doesn't mean that he won't have success at the NHL level, but it might mean that the way he produces will follow a different mold than some of the other established goal scorers like Ovechkin do. Certainly he can improve his skating, but people often profoundly overestimate how much better a player's skating can improve.

The progress he made during one summer was phenomenal. He couldnt keep up the pace in Mestis last season, because his skating was so terrible. And look at him now.

I've said this before: There's nothing in Laine's skating technique itself that is preventing him to be at least a good skater for a player of his size.

Also the talk around Ovie's skating etc, isn’t all that relevant. Ovie is 187cm. Laine is 194cm. That’s quite a difference. Laine should be compared to someone like Malkin or Wheeler who both are around 192-195cm.

 

[kunekune]

The progress he made during one summer was phenomenal. He couldnt keep up the pace in Mestis last season, because his skating was so terrible. And look at him now.

I've said this before: There's nothing in Laine's skating technique itself that is preventing him to be at least a good skater for a player of his size.

Also the talk around Ovie's skating etc, isn’t all that relevant. Ovie is 187cm. Laine is 194cm. That’s quite a difference. Laine should be compared to someone like Malkin or Wheeler who both are around 192-195cm.

Last summer was the first when Laine worked with Risto Rosendahl who is one of the best skating coaches in the world, a lot NHL teams would like to hire the guy but he chooses to stay in Finland.

Thats the same guy who fixed Barkovs and Lehteräs skating. Laines skating technique is already at good level. Now he just needs more power/muscle in his legs.

 

[agent082]

Thats the same guy who fixed Barkovs and Lehteräs skating.

Didn't even know Lehtera's skating is fixed.

 

[kunekune]

Didn't even know Lehtera's skating is fixed.

Obiviously You haven't seen him playing Tappara He was that bad. Back then Jori didnt know how skate without not looking the puck. He has come along way from there.

Angle injury really hurt his skating this season.

 

[Mestaruus]

I'm not a fan of either teams, but I hope Tappara wins tomorrow and makes the series 3-1. Kärpät wouldn't come back from a 3-1 situation, especially with their best defender injured. That would most likely mean Laine in men's team and Pulju in U-18. Make both teams strong and confident this way. That would be the perfect scenario as Pulju's scoring has been more inconsistent compared to Laine and in U-18 Pulju can give a reminder to people how good he really is and show the scouts how well he can (hopefully) adapt to NA sized rink.

 

[BusQuets]

I'm not a fan of either teams, but I hope Tappara wins tomorrow and makes the series 3-1. Kärpät wouldn't come back from a 3-1 situation, especially with their best defender injured. That would most likely mean Laine in men's team and Pulju in U-18. Make both teams strong and confident this way. That would be the perfect scenario as Pulju's scoring has been more inconsistent compared to Laine and in U-18 Pulju can give a reminder to people how good he really is and show the scouts how well he can (hopefully) adapt to NA sized rink.

I hope it's other way around. Laine could show that he can survive in the small rink which is the biggest ? in this draft. Puljujarvi already showed in wjc 15(laine didn't make it) that he will be awesome in small rink and practically made for it because of the skating.

Also Laine could use break from men's game because he has gone way too many times scoreless in the playoffs. seems tired.

 

[kooma 13]

I hope it's other way around. Laine could show that he can survive in the small rink which is the biggest ? in this draft. Puljujarvi already showed in wjc 15(laine didn't make it) that he will be awesome in small rink and practically made for it because of the skating.

Also Laine could use break from men's game because he has gone way too many times scoreless in the playoffs. seems tired.

I dont know where you are from but either you are huge homer for Pulju or you dont know a thing about hockey. In the playoffs Laine has been absolute beast and Pulju is just hanging there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If Pulju plays in Kärpät top 6, it means he is too good for AHL top 9 definitely. Last year Donskoi was Kärpät top player, he made the cut right away in the sharks top 6, so you're overrating AHL alot. It is not even better than Liiga.

Liiga is a worse league than AHL. I don't think using one player who it worked for as an example is a good idea.

 

[Keeptdos]

Liiga is definitely better than AHL. Top liiga teams would rekt AHL.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Liiga is definitely better than AHL. Top liiga teams would rekt AHL.

No they wouldn't.

 

[Ippenator]

I dont know where you are from but either you are huge homer for Pulju or you dont know a thing about hockey. In the playoffs Laine has been absolute beast and Pulju is just hanging there.

100% agreed. And I am absolutely not biased for Laine, as I hate his team more than any other team. They are my favorite team Ilves's biggest rival, and I have always anyway liked Kärpät as a great junior developer. So I am definitely still rooting for them to win Tappara. I really don't understand how someone can see Laine and Pulju in that way, as busquets seems to see. Or is he just trolling and laughing at us who think that he is really serious?

 

[BusQuets]

No they wouldn't.

Yeah they would. Not because they have better individuals but their team play and tactics are far superior against AHL teams. AHL is one of the worst coached professional leagues i know.
One of the reasons why there are quite many times games ending 10-5, 9-6,6-5 etc etc

 

[Grind]

Liiga is a worse league than AHL. I don't think using one player who it worked for as an example is a good idea.

Liiga is definitely better than AHL. Top liiga teams would rekt AHL.

Liiga is likely not better then the AHL.

Players generally retain far more scoring moving from the AHL to the NHL then they do from the Liiga.

obviously not a be all end all assessment, but i dont' know how else you would objectively determine which is "better".

obviously there's stylistic differences due to big ice, but those would exist in the SHL as well which carries over more scoring then the AHL does (as far as NHLE's)

SHL= .6
AHL= .47
LIIGA = .29

again not a be all end all, but i don't think you could equivocally claim the Liiga is better for two main reasons

1) the above NHLE conversions
2) Pool of talent. The AHL draws talent from across the globe, many of which are pegged to be "the next ones" in the NHL, where the Liga has far a less of a global reach. No Canadians/Americans/russians/etc with NHL potential are going to go play for Liiga teams. On the other hand, players from anywhere in the world with borderline NHL talent DO play in the AHL.

again, it's a subjective thing, but it's highly unlikely IMO that the liiga is "better" given the above.

 

[Ippenator]

Rantanen scoring with around 1,20 ppg in AHL definitely does make it quite clear that AHL is worse than FEL. I am absolutely sure that he wouldn't score over 1,00 ppg in FEL this season, if he would have stayed in FEL for one more year. He had previous season 0,50 ppg exactly and for sure he has not developed so much from last season that he would double his production in FEL. His WJC performance already confirms that, although he was having at least an ok tournament. But he is no way as good as Aho, Laine or even Pulju at the moment. Maybe close with Pulju, but not in the class of Laine, and definitely not even close to Aho's class.

 

[QnebO]

Liiga is a worse league than AHL. I don't think using one player who it worked for as an example is a good idea.

One? Medicore Liiga players are always top players in AHL. It is not defintely "one". You literally cant find players, that were top 6 in Liiga but wernt in the AHL.There isn't. Liiga is most definitely on par and probably better than the AHL, your ranking is way off.

Basic players like Pakarinen tend to lit it up in the AHL. Vatman and Pulkkinen owned AHL more than Liiga as raw kids.

2) Pool of talent. The AHL draws talent from across the globe, many of which are pegged to be "the next ones" in the NHL, where the Liga has far a less of a global reach. No Canadians/Americans/russians/etc with NHL potential are going to go play for Liiga teams. On the other hand, players from anywhere in the world with borderline NHL talent DO play in the AHL.

again, it's a subjective thing, but it's highly unlikely IMO that the liiga is "better" given the above.

No one wants to play in the AHL, outside of it being part of trying to make the NHL. It doesn't "draw" any talent at all. If you don't make it in the NHL, first thing you do is leave the dust of AHL behind and go to Europe. If you have enough talent. European teams don't look for average AHL'ers as their "foreign reinforcement". They look only for top tier guys, who would be top scorers in the AHL but didin't make the NHL. If you aren't top player in AHL, you'll see smaller European leagues first, before dreaming about big role in KHL, SEL, FEL or Swiss. This is how it really is, your median AHL'er wont walk in doors of European club teams and be welcomed automatically, not at all.

 

[FinPanda]

SHL= .6
AHL= .47
LIIGA = .29

Source?

 

[Keeptdos]

Liiga is likely not better then the AHL.

Players generally retain far more scoring moving from the AHL to the NHL then they do from the Liiga.

obviously not a be all end all assessment, but i dont' know how else you would objectively determine which is "better".

obviously there's stylistic differences due to big ice, but those would exist in the SHL as well which carries over more scoring then the AHL does (as far as NHLE's)

SHL= .6
AHL= .47
LIIGA = .29

again not a be all end all, but i don't think you could equivocally claim the Liiga is better for two main reasons

1) the above NHLE conversions
2) Pool of talent. The AHL draws talent from across the globe, many of which are pegged to be "the next ones" in the NHL, where the Liga has far a less of a global reach. No Canadians/Americans/russians/etc with NHL potential are going to go play for Liiga teams. On the other hand, players from anywhere in the world with borderline NHL talent DO play in the AHL.

again, it's a subjective thing, but it's highly unlikely IMO that the liiga is "better" given the above.

Does it count players from moved from Liiga to AHL to NHL as Liiga players?

Liiga is has better systems and is more defense oriented than AHL. And you really should not use some NHL point things to compare leagues since some players do a lot better in Europe than America due to rink sizes, some players thrive in different enviroments. Also Europe have a lot of good veterans who couldn't make NHL or dropped out and those players are better than AHL grinders.