RW Joshua Ho-Sang (2014, 28th, NYI) III

[PK Cronin]

But its not just some group-think posters here......why did he almost fall out of the 1st round of the draft? Why did 26 NHL organizations take a group-think pass on such a talented kid?

Its both funny and sad that a group grown adults would have the kind of mentality to man crush on a kid who has an inflated opinion of himself? Talk about BSOD (Bright Shiny Object Disorder).

yea about that NBA thing maybe Josh can learn a thing or two from Tim Duncan who won a championship with the Spurs this season for the 5th time and still managed to remain the ampidamy of class in victory..... how truely boring to have respect for THE PEOPLE YOU PLAY WITH and the guys you compete against.

Hockey is an old boys club, everybody knows that. Once you get a label, it's really hard to shake it. Could have been the case for Ho Sang dropping in the draft, maybe there's validity to it...I don't know. To act as though a player's reputation doesn't impact where he's drafted would be a little naive.

As a big fan of Tim Duncan, for every player like him, there are a dozen or more players who are outspoken in the NBA. Lebron James isn't exactly the classiest teammate, and there are plenty of NFL players quite similar.

I don't know what Ho Sang will become, but I'd say from the articles I've read about his alleged character flaws, it mostly seems to be BS. He says some rough around the edges comments from time to time, but indicating that you'd produce better with better lineups isn't exactly a problem in my eyes.

We'll see what happens in a few seasons when he finally makes it to the big club before I start putting out projections on NHL production levels (and he's likely never going to sniff the Art Ross trophy).

 

[Bronson]

There's a lot of whine about how a hockey player should act and how he shouldn't. Imo it's mostly sanctimonious BS from geriatrics who used make a career out of punching each other in the face. I hope Ho-Sang shows all the old, boring farts of the league that he is a top talent.

 

[1Gold Standard]

There's a lot of whine about how a hockey player should act and how he shouldn't. Imo it's mostly sanctimonious BS from geriatrics who used make a career out of punching each other in the face. I hope Ho-Sang shows all the old, boring farts of the league that he is a top talent.

That is indeed accurate and I would extend that to include sanctimonious BS from outsiders as well (fans, for lack of a better word) who have created for themselves this bazaar fantasy GM land who think they know a thing or two...but in actual fact they know little, if anything at all.

 

[Bronson]

^^^ this I agree with. There are too many conformists in and around the league.

 

[ps241]

Hockey is an old boys club, everybody knows that. Once you get a label, it's really hard to shake it. Could have been the case for Ho Sang dropping in the draft, maybe there's validity to it...I don't know. To act as though a player's reputation doesn't impact where he's drafted would be a little naive.

As a big fan of Tim Duncan, for every player like him, there are a dozen or more players who are outspoken in the NBA. Lebron James isn't exactly the classiest teammate, and there are plenty of NFL players quite similar.

I don't know what Ho Sang will become, but I'd say from the articles I've read about his alleged character flaws, it mostly seems to be BS. He says some rough around the edges comments from time to time, but indicating that you'd produce better with better lineups isn't exactly a problem in my eyes.

We'll see what happens in a few seasons when he finally makes it to the big club before I start putting out projections on NHL production levels (and he's likely never going to sniff the Art Ross trophy).

He could very well work out fine but he will need to have more disipline in interviews IMO. The fact the Isles had the good fortune to land a very talented and classy (boring) kid like Dal Colle in the first round allowed them space to take a flyer on a high risk high reward prospect like Ho Sang.

I don't have an issue with personality and ego but I have the luxury of playing from the sidelines. As a Jets fan I know first hand what it is like to have talented yet free spirited players. Evander Kane and Alex Burmistrov both bring it on the ice every night but they also come with highly confident yet independant personalities. One of them couldn't get along with coach Noel and is now in the KHL and the other one makes comments that are nuances at worst and the press eats it for lunch and the blogosphere goes nuts and it is disruptive. Last season Evander Kane was pissed when he was held out of a game coming off an injury that he thought he was ready for and he happened to break the code when Gord Miller asked him about being scratched. Just saying "he felt good to go" set off a 5hit storm in the press that took weeks to die down. That is child's play compared to what Josh said in his interview when he felt snubbed by hockey Canada. Can you imagine how the press are licking their lips to get at this kid?

To your point about the old boys club I 100% agree and I am sure 26 other teams were well aware of Josh's rep but they had scouts follow this kid for years, and also had a chance to interview him at the combine and make up their mind based on those meetings. No doubt his reputation proceeded him but I wouldn't discount orgs "first hand knowledge". I do not have a link right now but one of our fellow posters who runs a prospects rating service was at the combines and pretty imbedded in the process (it might have been Mark Edwards "Black Book") and he was making comments about Josh adding allot of fuel to the fire.

I applaud Snow for taking his shot but I also completely understand why 26 other GM's didn't want to take the risk on a potential side show. He looks like he has allot of talent and it may work out really well but even if his game is good that may not be enough. Great to be confident in yourself but you can't be openly disrespectful to the people who sign your paychecks. Josh hasn't done that yet on the Island but just like with Evander Kane (and to a lesser extent Burmi) the hockey world will be watching his every step waiting for a slip up.

 

[Jester9881]

Maybe someone can clear this up for me, but when I read comments like these (or how much of a force on offense he is) I check his stat sheet and don't see 100+ points like other offensive forces in their draft year... I've seen 'off the charts', 'incredible', and 'unreal' and other words used to describe him...where are the numbers then? For someone to be mentioned as a future Art Ross winner (though guy above is only time I've seen this), shouldn't he have had 120+ points this past year?

Nick Ritchie
Bo Horvat
Sean Monahan
Mark Scheifele
Matt Duchene
Nazem Kadri

Just a handful of recent, much higher draft picks out of the OHL that he outproduced. And that was just a brief check, there are likely more to add to this list. While he won't likely be an Art Ross winner.... fans have reason to think this guy will be a very good player at the NHL level.

 

[CanaFan]

Nick Ritchie
Bo Horvat
Sean Monahan*
Mark Scheifele
Matt Duchene*
Nazem Kadri*

Just a handful of recent, much higher draft picks out of the OHL that he outproduced. And that was just a brief check, there are likely more to add to this list. While he won't likely be an Art Ross winner.... fans have reason to think this guy will be a very good player at the NHL level.

*Not if you factor in games played.

 

[PK Cronin]

He could very well work out fine but he will need to have more disipline in interviews IMO. The fact the Isles had the good fortune to land a very talented and classy (boring) kid like Dal Colle in the first round allowed them space to take a flyer on a high risk high reward prospect like Ho Sang.

I don't have an issue with personality and ego but I have the luxury of playing from the sidelines. As a Jets fan I know first hand what it is like to have talented yet free spirited players. Evander Kane and Alex Burmistrov both bring it on the ice every night but they also come with highly confident yet independant personalities. One of them couldn't get along with coach Noel and is now in the KHL and the other one makes comments that are nuances at worst and the press eats it for lunch and the blogosphere goes nuts and it is disruptive. Last season Evander Kane was pissed when he was held out of a game coming off an injury that he thought he was ready for and he happened to break the code when Gord Miller asked him about being scratched. Just saying "he felt good to go" set off a 5hit storm in the press that took weeks to die down. That is child's play compared to what Josh said in his interview when he felt snubbed by hockey Canada. Can you imagine how the press are licking their lips to get at this kid?

To your point about the old boys club I 100% agree and I am sure 26 other teams were well aware of Josh's rep but they had scouts follow this kid for years, and also had a chance to interview him at the combine and make up their mind based on those meetings. No doubt his reputation proceeded him but I wouldn't discount orgs "first hand knowledge". I do not have a link right now but one of our fellow posters who runs a prospects rating service was at the combines and pretty imbedded in the process (it might have been Mark Edwards "Black Book") and he was making comments about Josh adding allot of fuel to the fire.

I applaud Snow for taking his shot but I also completely understand why 26 other GM's didn't want to take the risk on a potential side show. He looks like he has allot of talent and it may work out really well but even if his game is good that may not be enough. Great to be confident in yourself but you can't be openly disrespectful to the people who sign your paychecks. Josh hasn't done that yet on the Island but just like with Evander Kane (and to a lesser extent Burmi) the hockey world will be watching his every step waiting for a slip up.

A very fair analyses.

 

[Whileee]

There's a lot of whine about how a hockey player should act and how he shouldn't. Imo it's mostly sanctimonious BS from geriatrics who used make a career out of punching each other in the face. I hope Ho-Sang shows all the old, boring farts of the league that he is a top talent.

Actually, there is a sizable crop of GMs in the NHL that played in the modern era and don't fit your stereotype at all...

Yzerman, Francis, Bergevin, Kekalainen, Nill, Hextall, Wilson, for example.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

Actually, there is a sizable crop of GMs in the NHL that played in the modern era and don't fit your stereotype at all...

Yzerman, Francis, Bergevin, Kekalainen, Nill, Hextall, Wilson, for example.

Agree. Never seen so many excuses thrown against a wall for someone who isn't close to being a "for sure" NHL regular. Highly skilled player who could spend his life in the AHL but people here talk as if he is a can't miss kid.

At this stage in the game, you better be extremely good (top 2 or 3 in your draft year) to talk as much as he does and play such an individual game. Coaches and GM's would think a little differently if he was a pass first player or even a 50/50 pass/shoot player. The two games I have seen him play, it was him taking on the world.

 

[Pnut]

Where does this stuff come from? Honestly... The exaggeration on Ho-Sang's talent is ridiculous.

If Ho-Sang survives in an NHL locker room without getting run out of town by his teammates and coaches, he *might* have a career nearly in the same ballpark as Mike Ribiero. A million things have to go right for this to happen. And it won't. Calling him a potential Art Ross winner is an absolute joke.

The exaggeration of how he has locker room issues or personality issues is a more accurate problem here.

Where has there been actual proof that he has had issues with coaches or teammates? Just post one link. One.

But its not just some group-think posters here......why did he almost fall out of the 1st round of the draft? Why did 26 NHL organizations take a group-think pass on such a talented kid?

Its both funny and sad that a group grown adults would have the kind of mentality to man crush on a kid who has an inflated opinion of himself? Talk about BSOD (Bright Shiny Object Disorder).

yea about that NBA thing maybe Josh can learn a thing or two from Tim Duncan who won a championship with the Spurs this season for the 5th time and still managed to remain the ampidamy of class in victory..... how truely boring to have respect for THE PEOPLE YOU PLAY WITH and the guys you compete against.

Who has a man crush on him? You just presented a straw man argument if I ever saw one. Why bring Tim Duncan in on this? The interviews I have seen with Josh he shows respect to teammates. Where is your proof otherwise, for you are the one that made the claim.
Boring = No personality, If he is not an issue in the lockerroom then why do you care? I would love to see proof.

I don't have an issue with personality and ego but I have the luxury of playing from the sidelines. As a Jets fan I know first hand what it is like to have talented yet free spirited players. Evander Kane and Alex Burmistrov both bring it on the ice every night but they also come with highly confident yet independant personalities. One of them couldn't get along with coach Noel and is now in the KHL and the other one makes comments that are nuances at worst and the press eats it for lunch and the blogosphere goes nuts and it is disruptive. Last season Evander Kane was pissed when he was held out of a game coming off an injury that he thought he was ready for and he happened to break the code when Gord Miller asked him about being scratched. Just saying "he felt good to go" set off a 5hit storm in the press that took weeks to die down. That is child's play compared to what Josh said in his interview when he felt snubbed by hockey Canada. Can you imagine how the press are licking their lips to get at this kid?

To your point about the old boys club I 100% agree and I am sure 26 other teams were well aware of Josh's rep but they had scouts follow this kid for years, and also had a chance to interview him at the combine and make up their mind based on those meetings. No doubt his reputation proceeded him but I wouldn't discount orgs "first hand knowledge". I do not have a link right now but one of our fellow posters who runs a prospects rating service was at the combines and pretty imbedded in the process (it might have been Mark Edwards "Black Book") and he was making comments about Josh adding allot of fuel to the fire.

I applaud Snow for taking his shot but I also completely understand why 26 other GM's didn't want to take the risk on a potential side show. He looks like he has allot of talent and it may work out really well but even if his game is good that may not be enough. Great to be confident in yourself but you can't be openly disrespectful to the people who sign your paychecks. Josh hasn't done that yet on the Island but just like with Evander Kane (and to a lesser extent Burmi) the hockey world will be watching his every step waiting for a slip up.

They are watching for a slip up. What happens when one doesn't come? Will there be apologies from certain folks? I am not counting on it.

[mod]

 

[hockeygeek]

The guy suggested his GM, a respected hockey man who's always supported Josh when criticized, was racist. He'll deke 10 guys just so he doesn't have to pass to a teammate, and he suggested in the press that if he had Connor McDavid's wingers (instead of the guys he's stuck with) that he might also have McDavid production. If you don't think that indicates at least some "me ahead of the team" attitude there's no helping you. Its pretty much well documented that the guy is a tool. He can stickhandle and move around on the ice like few can however, so he's still worth a shot that he'll figure things out.

If he actually said some of that McDavid stuff then he's out of his mind. For one he's not even close to the same talent as McDavid. He's also insulting his own line mates. Sure they may not have the same puck skills but I'm sure they already knew that. How eager does he think they will be to step in if he's getting roughed up this year. Not smart. There's not conforming and there's being disrespectful to people who have earned respect.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

The exaggeration of how he has locker room issues or personality issues is a more accurate problem here.

Where has there been actual proof that he has had issues with coaches or teammates? Just post one link. One.



Who has a man crush on him? You just presented a straw man argument if I ever saw one. Why bring Tim Duncan in on this? The interviews I have seen with Josh he shows respect to teammates. Where is your proof otherwise, for you are the one that made the claim.
Boring = No personality, If he is not an issue in the lockerroom then why do you care? I would love to see proof.


They are watching for a slip up. What happens when one doesn't come? Will there be apologies from certain folks? I am not counting on it.

It seems to be a lot of racism and xenophobia, Kane is black and Burmistrov is Russian. They would never be treated like that if they were white Canadians. Proof is in the pudding that other players don't get treated like that.

I agree that anyone that bringing him up as a locker room issue is reaching just as much as you are reaching with the racism claim. There has been nothing negatively said about his locker room or teammate relationships and this is with a couple years of OHL hockey under his belt. If it was there, it would have been touched on by anyone reporting on the draft over the last couple years.

That being said, there is no doubt in my mind that he plays hockey with high skill and a high dose of selfishness. Turn overs that should have been simple passes to a teammate or taking on 2 players and losing the puck when an easier play should have been made, are what I have seen. There were two shifts I saw against Kitchner where I don't think he attempted to do anything but take on the entire team and looked like a fool doing it.

If people only knew how hard it is for a coach to watch a player complicate the game rather than make it simple. The casual fan might love for their favorite. highly skilled player to take many chances a game of beating as many players one on one as possible but it is the fastest way to find yourself out of an NHL lineup.
As far as grading him as a puckhandler and skater, there is no doubt he is elite. Grading as far as being a hockey player, I think he isn’t even first round material. A first round draft pick makes players better and simplifies the game. He is the anti first rounder.

 

[JZCislesHockey]

I like Ho-Sang. I'm a rebellious teenager myself, and he is dripping skill. He's the kind of player I'd be ecstatic to have on my second line in a few years, scoring 60 or so points.

 

[Fogelhund]

I agree that anyone that bringing him up as a locker room issue is reaching.

Well.. if there weren't locker room issues before, his comments about scoring as many points as McDavid, if he had McDavids wingers, certainly would suggest there might be issues going forward. (If true) You don't throw your own teammates under the bus.

 

[Jester9881]

Actually, there is a sizable crop of GMs in the NHL that played in the modern era and don't fit your stereotype at all...

Yzerman, Francis, Bergevin, Kekalainen, Nill, Hextall, Wilson, for example.

Don't forget Snow....

And didn't Yzerman pick that DeAngelo kid higher with even bigger character issues? Why am I not surprised that he gets a pass, but Snow and the Islanders get dumped on?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

The 3rd thread for this kid. God bless him.

 

[roboninja]

Yeah, yeah, all you young kiddies and your "stick it to the establishment" attitudes.

Robbie Schremp 2.0

 

[Bronson]

Actually, there is a sizable crop of GMs in the NHL that played in the modern era and don't fit your stereotype at all...

Yzerman, Francis, Bergevin, Kekalainen, Nill, Hextall, Wilson, for example.

Good old boys.

 

[CanaFan]

Good old boys.

What are "good old boys"? Do you mean players who are known for their hard work, leadership, and tremendous success in this league for their play on the ice rather than what they've said in various interviews? Those "old boys"? If so, maybe the old boys club isn't so bad after all.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Don't forget Snow....

And didn't Yzerman pick that DeAngelo kid higher with even bigger character issues? Why am I not surprised that he gets a pass, but Snow and the Islanders get dumped on?

He doesn't get a pass. He just isn't the constant recipient of more negative attention because he hasn't done anything since the draft to warrant it. Ho-Sang keeps digging himself into new holes.

 

[Macch]

Yeah, yeah, all you young kiddies and your "stick it to the establishment" attitudes.

Robbie Schremp 2.0

I see this comparison a lot. I think it's very lazy.

Schremp had to be one of the worst skaters I've ever seen for a "skill" player.

Ho-Sang is a much better skater. He's not a sure thing, but I think he has a lot going for him.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I like Ho-Sang. For all the talk that you hear or read about his perceived attitude issues, his coaches and teammates are very quick to point out differently. The Islanders coaching staff also came away impressed with his work ethic and ability (it should be noted at the NHL combine, Ho-Sang was one of the best conditioned athletes there, so being in shape definitely isn't an issue and it's clear that he's really focused in that aspect). He's got several things going for him that you can't teach. Great hands, great speed, and he's willing to do what ever it takes to be the best. He also carries a chip on his shoulder as motivation to be the best.

Does he have a big mouth? I don't think so. I think he's genuinely honest and a bit cocky, but there's nothing wrong with that. The whole concept that hockey players have to be cut out of the same cloth and give the same cookie cutter answer is very boring. Ho-Sang is definitely his own character, but as he and his coaches and teammates have said on numerous occasions, he's NEVER been a problem in the locker room and is a very big team guy.

I honestly don't understand all the hate an 18 year old kid has received. Yes, I get that 18 is the age of majority, but that doesn't mean that an 18 year old is an adult. Anyone expecting an 18 year old to act like a seasoned veteran is going to be disappointed. Enjoy the kid for the skills he brings to the table and the fact that he's a genuinely honest guy who will question things because he's not satisfied with cookie cutter answers. Kudos to him for being incredibly intelligent and forth right.

 

[boredmale]

I like Ho-Sang. For all the talk that you hear or read about his perceived attitude issues, his coaches and teammates are very quick to point out differently. The Islanders coaching staff also came away impressed with his work ethic and ability (it should be noted at the NHL combine, Ho-Sang was one of the best conditioned athletes there, so being in shape definitely isn't an issue and it's clear that he's really focused in that aspect). He's got several things going for him that you can't teach. Great hands, great speed, and he's willing to do what ever it takes to be the best. He also carries a chip on his shoulder as motivation to be the best.

I think the best thing I see when I watch clips of Ho Sang is he doesn't seem to have problems driving toward the net. Alot of times when you see highly skilled players they like the play on the perimeter. On the negative side I think his neural zone game needs work(to often it seems like he wants to be the man who carries the puck in the offensive zone, that style won't work in the NHL and most likely will be his downfall if he doesn't change it)

 

[SI90]

kid hasn't opened his mouth in weeks, yet this thread still going strong...