RW Jesse Puljujärvi - Kärpät, Liiga (2016 Draft) II

[HockeyHistorian]

I still believe in Puljujärvi as evidenced by me choosing him to captain my fantasy league team today.

 

[FinPanda]

It's obvious that Puljujärvi don't have much confidence now in scoring opportunities.. He gets chances but isn't capitalizing them and gets frustrated. I really hope he scores soon, because the chances are there.

 

[Battle Lin]

this is why laine has passed him in scouts minds...cus this big kid, who skates elitely fast with those huge powerful strides, he skates down the rink with the puck like a superstar nhl wing but then he actually has pretty bad finishing abilities at the moment

the puck skills just arent all there yet, he either loses it at net or gets little on it...theres so much flair to his game cus of that size and speed but little finish...laine on the other hand, not as fast or explosive, but dam he has finish

 

[rduck1]

this is why laine has passed him in scouts minds...cus this big kid, who skates elitely fast with those huge powerful strides, he skates down the rink with the puck like a superstar nhl wing but then he actually has pretty bad finishing abilities at the moment

the puck skills just arent all there yet, he either loses it at net or gets little on it...theres so much flair to his game cus of that size and speed but little finish...laine on the other hand, not as fast or explosive, but dam he has finish

It's all relative, considering he's playing way above his age group. 8 goals is actually a lot for a U-18 player in Liiga, and we all saw how dominant he is among players closer to his age in the WJC. Also, Laine has a 0,6% higher shooting percentage, and one more goal at even strength. Their difference in production has more to do with their roles and ice time(especially on the power-play) than ability. All things considered, I think his scoring ability is at a high level relative to his age group, and I doubt any NHL teams will hold it against him.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

5'10", average skating-Granlund scored 13 goals in 43 games as a 17 yr old.

Pulju has 8 goals in 42 games.

Granlund has 22 goals in 211 NHL games.

Now no one needs to step out and tell me how this is pointless because i know it is, and im not saying Pulju won't be the better goalscorer in the NHL. I guess i just keep reminding myself not to expect these guys to become elite scorers in the NHL, rather hope for it.

Fact is it doesn't matter much that he is 17. He's got the speed and size to compete well enough to get himself into scoring areas. Players don't change as much as people think from draft year onwards, years go by really fast. I used to think this way and every single time the prospect didn't meet my expectations down the road.

Not going to start anything here, and again im not comparing Pulju to Granlund. Just pointing out that just because he's only 17 it doesn't mean he's going to come out and explode for 30 goals next year assuming he stays in Finland.

Barkov is a damn good comparison as far as offensive potential goes because he's the recent guy to be in this position. He scored 48 points in 53 games in his draft year. For a 2-way center these numbers are huge. And now in his 3rd NHL season he's going to put up around 65 points.

I feel like if we truly had an elite offensive prospect he'd tear the FEL apart in his draft year. This is why i think Laine projects as a 35+30 kind of guy and Pulju 20+35 type of guy. Just because they're in the top 3 doesn't mean we're going to have ourselves high-end elite NHL point producers.

The WJC's have clouded a lot of people's views on these two guys i feel like. They had one hell of a tournament, and everything seemed to click. But there have been a lot of no-name NHL guys who have gone on a tear in junior tournaments over the years. I still think what you do in the league you're playing in is the best measurement stick.

Now if we had a player of Puljus speed and Laines shot, along with all the other good offensive qualities these guys have, THAT's an elite prospect. Then it would be fair to compare this Lainejärvi to guys like Kovalchuk. But as it stands i think both of these guys miss out on the elite department. (altho i think Laine has a shot at it, just not as sure-bet as people think)

 

[Loffer]

5'10", average skating-Granlund scored 13 goals in 43 games as a 17 yr old.

Pulju has 8 goals in 42 games.

Granlund has 22 goals in 211 NHL games.

Now no one needs to step out and tell me how this is pointless because i know it is, and im not saying Pulju won't be the better goalscorer in the NHL. I guess i just keep reminding myself not to expect these guys to become elite scorers in the NHL, rather hope for it.

Fact is it doesn't matter much that he is 17. He's got the speed and size to compete well enough to get himself into scoring areas. Players don't change as much as people think from draft year onwards, years go by really fast. I used to think this way and every single time the prospect didn't meet my expectations down the road.

Not going to start anything here, and again im not comparing Pulju to Granlund. Just pointing out that just because he's only 17 it doesn't mean he's going to come out and explode for 30 goals next year assuming he stays in Finland.

Barkov is a damn good comparison as far as offensive potential goes because he's the recent guy to be in this position. He scored 48 points in 53 games in his draft year. For a 2-way center these numbers are huge. And now in his 3rd NHL season he's going to put up around 65 points.

I feel like if we truly had an elite offensive prospect he'd tear the FEL apart in his draft year. This is why i think Laine projects as a 35+30 kind of guy and Pulju 20+35 type of guy. Just because they're in the top 3 doesn't mean we're going to have ourselves high-end elite NHL point producers.

The WJC's have clouded a lot of people's views on these two guys i feel like. They had one hell of a tournament, and everything seemed to click. But there have been a lot of no-name NHL guys who have gone on a tear in junior tournaments over the years. I still think what you do in the league you're playing in is the best measurement stick.

Now if we had a player of Puljus speed and Laines shot, along with all the other good offensive qualities these guys have, THAT's an elite prospect. Then it would be fair to compare this Lainejärvi to guys like Kovalchuk. But as it stands i think both of these guys miss out on the elite department. (altho i think Laine has a shot at it, just not as sure-bet as people think)

What a great insightful post. Lots of good reminders compactly packed. Remember this post going forward. Laine has one flaw indeed and it is his lack of explosiveness. Tuomaz might have some idea in his lopsided and a bit ridiculous posts about "slow deking" Laine. With quick feet and quick hands - I mean quick feet primarily since it's always feet first - we had a surefire superelite prospect/NHLer in Laine and with some of Laine's best attributes in Pulju we had the same thing.

Now thinking about it, maybe Hockey Finland should consider genetic merging of this guys DNA samples in some bio tech lab of Oulu...or something - seriously. And then grow the prototype future Finnish super player in the womb of a female wolf of Ahtari wild life reserve?

 

[QnebO]

Granlund has elite hands but the game doesnt translate for NHL easily for 5'10 guy.

 

[Joe MacMillan]

5'10", average skating-Granlund scored 13 goals in 43 games as a 17 yr old.

Pulju has 8 goals in 42 games.

Granlund has 22 goals in 211 NHL games.

Now no one needs to step out and tell me how this is pointless because i know it is, and im not saying Pulju won't be the better goalscorer in the NHL. I guess i just keep reminding myself not to expect these guys to become elite scorers in the NHL, rather hope for it.

Fact is it doesn't matter much that he is 17. He's got the speed and size to compete well enough to get himself into scoring areas. Players don't change as much as people think from draft year onwards, years go by really fast. I used to think this way and every single time the prospect didn't meet my expectations down the road.

Not going to start anything here, and again im not comparing Pulju to Granlund. Just pointing out that just because he's only 17 it doesn't mean he's going to come out and explode for 30 goals next year assuming he stays in Finland.

Barkov is a damn good comparison as far as offensive potential goes because he's the recent guy to be in this position. He scored 48 points in 53 games in his draft year. For a 2-way center these numbers are huge. And now in his 3rd NHL season he's going to put up around 65 points.

I feel like if we truly had an elite offensive prospect he'd tear the FEL apart in his draft year. This is why i think Laine projects as a 35+30 kind of guy and Pulju 20+35 type of guy. Just because they're in the top 3 doesn't mean we're going to have ourselves high-end elite NHL point producers.

The WJC's have clouded a lot of people's views on these two guys i feel like. They had one hell of a tournament, and everything seemed to click. But there have been a lot of no-name NHL guys who have gone on a tear in junior tournaments over the years. I still think what you do in the league you're playing in is the best measurement stick.

Now if we had a player of Puljus speed and Laines shot, along with all the other good offensive qualities these guys have, THAT's an elite prospect. Then it would be fair to compare this Lainejärvi to guys like Kovalchuk. But as it stands i think both of these guys miss out on the elite department. (altho i think Laine has a shot at it, just not as sure-bet as people think)

6'2 Mikko Koivu scored 0 goals in 21 games in his draft year and 4 goals in 48 games in the post-draft season.

In the NHL, he reached the total of 22 goals in less than 147 games, the feat that took Granlund a full additional season to accomplish, despite being clearly the more productive player in his teens.

What gives?

Saying players don't develop much from the draft and beyond is a big fat lie. Players take huge strides in development after they're drafted and put in a proper development framework, committing to an intense training scheme tailored for their respective needs. I can't believe anyone would seriously suggest otherwise. Your typical 17 year-old is not nearly matured enough to be at the end of his development path (or even near to the end of it), most of them aren't even fully grown into their bodies at that point. Laine and Pulju are no different. Remains to be seen whether they ever adjust to the life of an NHL pro or the style of play that is played in the NHL, but they certainly will learn to play simply better hockey given that they commit to it enough.

 

[JJTT]

Puljujärvi sure knows how to finish but it seems like he can't get his shots off like he wants to. In a few years, he will.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

6'2 Mikko Koivu scored 0 goals in 21 games in his draft year and 4 goals in 48 games in the post-draft season.

In the NHL, he reached the total of 22 goals in less than 147 games, the feat that took Granlund a full additional season to accomplish, despite being clearly the more productive player in his teens.

What gives?

Saying players don't develop much from the draft and beyond is a big fat lie. Players take huge strides in development after they're drafted and put in a proper development framework, committing to an intense training scheme tailored for their respective needs. I can't believe anyone would seriously suggest otherwise. Your typical 17 year-old is not nearly matured enough to be at the end of his development path (or even near to the end of it), most of them aren't even fully grown into their bodies at that point. Laine and Pulju are no different. Remains to be seen whether they ever adjust to the life of an NHL pro or the style of play that is played in the NHL, but they certainly will learn to play simply better hockey given that they commit to it enough.

Koivu was always a long-term project. He took an unique path and his dad made sure of this. He didn't play big minutes right away in FEL or train the same way as Pulju & Laine. They had a plan to take it slow from the get-go.

I think you misunderstood me. Obviously players develop a lot down the road compared to their teens. What i meant is players don't change much over time style-wise, what their tendencies are and how they like to play/what their strenghts are. Pulju and Laine are going to play mostly the same type of style down the road they do now. Most puck skills, shot etc. are learned in your youth and then it's just a matter of getting comfortable vs your competition (=physique) so you have more confidence to use them. If you're not an explosive skater in your draft year more often than not you'll never be one. If you don't have an elite shot you most likely will never have one. If you don't have great hands you won't have them later. You get my drift.

These guys have developed at a rapid rate and will continue to develop. But because of this they're not raw prospects anymore. Jumps in development will get smaller and smaller.

The goal is to be able to play the way they're now against the best competition in the world. And that's already a big challenge. It's rare for players to develop further than that and be something that wasn't expected in the first place.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Koivu was always a long-term project. He took an unique path and his dad made sure of this. He didn't play big minutes right away in FEL or train the same way as Pulju & Laine. They had a plan to take it slow from the get-go.

I think you misunderstood me. Obviously players develop a lot down the road compared to their teens. What i meant is players don't change much over time style-wise, what their tendencies are and how they like to play/what their strenghts are. Pulju and Laine are going to play mostly the same type of style down the road they do now. Most puck skills, shot etc. are learned in your youth and then it's just a matter of getting comfortable vs your competition (=physique) so you have more confidence to use them. If you're not an explosive skater in your draft year more often than not you'll never be one. If you don't have an elite shot you most likely will never have one. If you don't have great hands you won't have them later. You get my drift.

These guys have developed at a rapid rate and will continue to develop. But because of this they're not raw prospects anymore. Jumps in development will get smaller and smaller.

The goal is to be able to play the way they're now against the best competition in the world. And that's already a big challenge. It's rare for players to develop further than that and be something that wasn't expected in the first place.

I agree with the sentiment that the very talented ones who take rapid steps in development at an early age aren't gonna sustain the same development rate in later stages. Case in point: Crosby was the best player in the league already at 19 and was able produce 120 points in his sophomore season. He wasn't going to keep up with the same rate and become a steady 180 points per season player as his development progressed. Same with McDavid who looks to be a superstar-level player already. He isn't going to be the player he is today times 8 by the age of 26. Great players reach their peak earlier than the average player and thus are able to sustain the peak for a longer period of time.

That said, I don't think you can draw conclusions from Puljujärvi's production (or lack thereof) this season and rely the entirety of your argument regarding his future development on it. The issue with Puljujärvi isn't that he lacks skill, rather that he has to learn to use his skills better and more efficiently. That will come with time through proper development... or it won't... no one can say for sure. But the fact is he's 17 currently playing his first full season against grown adults. I just wouldn't put too much weight into the current numbers when it comes to anything relating to his development down the road.

 

[Zaddy]

5'10", average skating-Granlund scored 13 goals in 43 games as a 17 yr old.

Pulju has 8 goals in 42 games.

Granlund has 22 goals in 211 NHL games.

Now no one needs to step out and tell me how this is pointless because i know it is, and im not saying Pulju won't be the better goalscorer in the NHL. I guess i just keep reminding myself not to expect these guys to become elite scorers in the NHL, rather hope for it.

Fact is it doesn't matter much that he is 17. He's got the speed and size to compete well enough to get himself into scoring areas. Players don't change as much as people think from draft year onwards, years go by really fast. I used to think this way and every single time the prospect didn't meet my expectations down the road.

Not going to start anything here, and again im not comparing Pulju to Granlund. Just pointing out that just because he's only 17 it doesn't mean he's going to come out and explode for 30 goals next year assuming he stays in Finland.

Barkov is a damn good comparison as far as offensive potential goes because he's the recent guy to be in this position. He scored 48 points in 53 games in his draft year. For a 2-way center these numbers are huge. And now in his 3rd NHL season he's going to put up around 65 points.

I feel like if we truly had an elite offensive prospect he'd tear the FEL apart in his draft year. This is why i think Laine projects as a 35+30 kind of guy and Pulju 20+35 type of guy. Just because they're in the top 3 doesn't mean we're going to have ourselves high-end elite NHL point producers.

The WJC's have clouded a lot of people's views on these two guys i feel like. They had one hell of a tournament, and everything seemed to click. But there have been a lot of no-name NHL guys who have gone on a tear in junior tournaments over the years. I still think what you do in the league you're playing in is the best measurement stick.

Now if we had a player of Puljus speed and Laines shot, along with all the other good offensive qualities these guys have, THAT's an elite prospect. Then it would be fair to compare this Lainejärvi to guys like Kovalchuk. But as it stands i think both of these guys miss out on the elite department. (altho i think Laine has a shot at it, just not as sure-bet as people think)

Great post. Mirrors my thoughts. I'm a big fan of Laine but even so I can acknowledge that he's not a slam-dunk prospect by any means either. Matthews is a much safer pick than both these guys. What's so enticing about Laine though is that he has an incredibly high offensive ceiling. If he will reach it or not is another question, but with his size and knack for scoring goals it's something that is worth gambling on with a top3 pick.

 

[JJTT]

Not much talk, been playing really well lately. 1+1 today so far.

 

[kunekune]

Comparing Barkovs and Granlunds points production to Laine / Pulju is not relevant.

1) FEL avg scoring per game has gone down 0,7 goals per game from Barkovs days.

2) Both Barkov and Granlund played in SUPERELITE line. Both Pulju and Laine are playing in 2nd line with much less skilled linesmen. Barkov played with Ville Nieminen and Jannik Hansen. Granlund with Peltonen and Pesonen.

Taking these facts in consideration Puljus and especially Laines point production is in elite level.

 

[Hokinaittii]

What a blaster.

 

[FinPanda]

The level of the FEL has dropped too though.

But about Puljujärvi.. he got puck near the eye earlier in the game and then he scored.

 

[Sputniker]

The level of the FEL has dropped too though.

Want to see your arguments about this statement.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

What a blaster.

What a shot.
No chance for Bernard to catch that
Hopefully that goal gives more scoring confidence for Puljujärvi.

 

[BusQuets]

The level of the FEL has dropped too though.

But about Puljujärvi.. he got puck near the eye earlier in the game and then he scored.

Since Granlund days? No it hasn't. At least not enough to have any relevant impact on this issue.

 

[kunekune]

Want to see your arguments about this statement.

Not the best or the only argument that can be said about leagues quality but this season there is not a line in FEL that is even close in quality to Granlunds or Barkovs line.

Nieminen-Barkov-Hansen, tho this was lockout season. Nieminen is Stanley cup winner and still pretty close to his prime. Hansen was NHL lockout player

Peltonen-Granlund-Pesonen. Everyone in that line was Skodacup offensive line material that year.

 

[BusQuets]

Puljujarvi's pass to Pyorala's goal was nice too.

 

[BusQuets]

Not the best or the only argument that can be said about leagues quality but this season there is not a line in FEL that is even close in quality to Granlunds or Barkovs line.

Nieminen-Barkov-Hansen, tho this was lockout season. Nieminen is Stanley cup winner and still pretty close to his prime. Hansen was NHL lockout player

Peltonen-Granlund-Pesonen. Everyone in that line was Skodacup offensive line material that year.

Yeah both were in the best possible place to succeed and they did so good for them. However Pulju and Laine both had to start on 3rd line with limited pp time.

 

[QnebO]

Puljujarvi's pass to Pyorala's goal was nice too.

Stick handling before it was slow though. Even I could do it that slow

I'm actually glad for both of these youngsters scoring today.

 

[agent082]

2) Both Barkov and Granlund played in SUPERELITE line. Both Pulju and Laine are playing in 2nd line with much less skilled linesmen. Barkov played with Ville Nieminen and Jannik Hansen. Granlund with Peltonen and Pesonen.

Really? Where you got this information? Peltonen and Pesonen played in KHL that year.