Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Can Anyone That Can Win Faceoffs Please Contact Chia?

[Mr Positive]

Yes it should also be noted that the Red Wings didn't win a lot of games.

He's an offensive defenseman who is a liability in his own end, not unlike Schultz was. If you take away Russell and replace him with Mike Green, you're hurting your defense.

We aren't the Pittsburgh Penguins.

By that logic we should only be trading with playoff teams. We shouldn't be so quick to dismiss players because of their team's problems. In Green's case, he actually took on the toughest competition on that defense, and that tells me that if we sheltered him here it would pay off big.

We have plenty of D that are okay in the Dzone and have good two way games. We need offense from the defense. And no we aren't the Penguins, but the Penguins aren't special. They are a hockey team like any. They can shelter Schultz because of the makeup of their team. Because of our abundance of two-way D, we can shelter a great OFD too.

 

[belair]

By that logic we should only be trading with playoff teams. We shouldn't be so quick to dismiss players because of their team's problems. In Green's case, he actually took on the toughest competition on that defense, and that tells me that if we sheltered him here it would pay off big.

We have plenty of D that are okay in the Dzone and have good two way games. We need offense from the defense. And no we aren't the Penguins, but the Penguins aren't special. They are a hockey team like any. They can shelter Schultz because of the makeup of their team. Because of our abundance of two-way D, we can shelter a great OFD too.

Offense from the defense should come organically. Sacrificing defensive structure for that offense is how you hurt your team. It's the same argument the people are using to trash Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Jordan Eberle yet the some of those same posters are the ones proposing we go out and grab Mike Green or Tyson Barrie to replace Kris Russell.

 

[jeg]

Offense from the defense should come organically. Sacrificing defensive structure for that offense is how you hurt your team. It's the same argument the people are using to trash Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Jordan Eberle yet the some of those same posters are the ones proposing we go out and grab Mike Green or Tyson Barrie to replace Kris Russell.

This is true if we left Eberle a complete defensive liability his numbers would increase he's trying to completely relearn his game.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Its doubtful Anaheim can protect Silfverberg.


We need to get him for picks.

When I look at Anaheim's situation I have him as protected, Bieksa is waiving his NMC or being bought out, that just has to happen, from that point the only really important D are Fowler and Lindholm, I'd protect Manson over Vatanen who's looked a bit shaky this year.

Vatanen seems more replaceable and provides less value per $ then Silfverberg.


What I find more interesting about Anaheim is their ownership doesn't want to spend to the cap and are supposed to have a self-imposed hard cap, management agreed to waive it this year as a one off, I'm wondering since the Ducks have gotten pretty far this year if they will just throw the self imposed cap out the window for the time being or if they will have to partially deconstruct the team for cap reasons in the off-season.

 

[Spawn]

Offense from the defense should come organically. Sacrificing defensive structure for that offense is how you hurt your team. It's the same argument the people are using to trash Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Jordan Eberle yet the some of those same posters are the ones proposing we go out and grab Mike Green or Tyson Barrie to replace Kris Russell.

That's sort of difficult to do when we don't have any "organic" offensive d-men.

This team had a very clear weakness in the 2nd round. Our d-men couldn't transition the puck out of our own zone. That isn't an issue that will be solved by just keeping the same d-core.

We need to upgrade to get better.

 

[belair]

That's sort of difficult to do when we don't have any "organic" offensive d-men.

This team had a very clear weakness in the 2nd round. Our d-men couldn't transition the puck out of our own zone. That isn't an issue that will be solved by just keeping the same d-core.

We need to upgrade to get better.

Both Klefbom and Benning showed flashes of ability to be that 'complete' defenseman last season. Offering Benning a shot on a PP unit is how you develop that skill. Klefbom is already building on that ability. Blocking those players with big name free agents and quick fixes is how you hinder and limit development.

And once again, you're talking about fixing issues we had in a second round playoff series. There are 82 games before we get back there again. A playoff roster and a regular season roster are two significantly different things. Many things will change before we get back there.

 

[PaPaDee]

Any chance wings move Green for Eberle? He'd fit in nicely on the second pairing.

 

[oobga]

That's sort of difficult to do when we don't have any "organic" offensive d-men.

This team had a very clear weakness in the 2nd round. Our d-men couldn't transition the puck out of our own zone. That isn't an issue that will be solved by just keeping the same d-core.

We need to upgrade to get better.

The Anaheim series was a great showcase of that weakness I thought. First off, how the Ducks started to constantly cheat along the boards because they knew there were very high odds a puck was coming around the boards long before our D even made that play. Our wingers were constantly getting beat by D and wingers jumping in front of them as the pucks came around, and we never really adjusted.

The other way the weakness was apparent was just watching how the Ducks D broke out. So much more happening off the boards, their transitions were much easier on the wingers. It gets frustrating watching our wingers lose those battles on the boards just inside our zone, but we have to realize how they are getting set up for failure by how many board battles we intentionally create by ringing pucks around the boards. Part of it is coaching IMO, and part is just not having the quality of D to move the puck up in more fast and skillful ways.

 

[GMofOilers]

The Anaheim series was a great showcase of that weakness I thought. First off, how the Ducks started to constantly cheat along the boards because they knew there were very high odds a puck was coming around the boards long before our D even made that play. Our wingers were constantly getting beat by D and wingers jumping in front of them as the pucks came around, and we never really adjusted.

The other way the weakness was apparent was just watching how the Ducks D broke out. So much more happening off the boards, their transitions were much easier on the wingers. It gets frustrating watching our wingers lose those battles on the boards just inside our zone, but we have to realize how they are getting set up for failure by how many board battles we intentionally create by ringing pucks around the boards. Part of it is coaching IMO, and part is just not having the quality of D to move the puck up in more fast and skillful ways.

I agree with this, but our 1st pair was as guilty as anyone in the final series.

Maybe we should aim higher on our first pairing, move Klefbom to the second pairing

 

[MessierII]

The Anaheim series was a great showcase of that weakness I thought. First off, how the Ducks started to constantly cheat along the boards because they knew there were very high odds a puck was coming around the boards long before our D even made that play. Our wingers were constantly getting beat by D and wingers jumping in front of them as the pucks came around, and we never really adjusted.

The other way the weakness was apparent was just watching how the Ducks D broke out. So much more happening off the boards, their transitions were much easier on the wingers. It gets frustrating watching our wingers lose those battles on the boards just inside our zone, but we have to realize how they are getting set up for failure by how many board battles we intentionally create by ringing pucks around the boards. Part of it is coaching IMO, and part is just not having the quality of D to move the puck up in more fast and skillful ways.

Duck D also turned the puck over for grade A scoring chances a bunch and almost cost them the series. The issue there was our forecheck sucked a lot of the time. When we were putting pressure on them the ducks D made mistakes.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

The Anaheim series was a great showcase of that weakness I thought. First off, how the Ducks started to constantly cheat along the boards because they knew there were very high odds a puck was coming around the boards long before our D even made that play. Our wingers were constantly getting beat by D and wingers jumping in front of them as the pucks came around, and we never really adjusted.

The other way the weakness was apparent was just watching how the Ducks D broke out. So much more happening off the boards, their transitions were much easier on the wingers. It gets frustrating watching our wingers lose those battles on the boards just inside our zone, but we have to realize how they are getting set up for failure by how many board battles we intentionally create by ringing pucks around the boards. Part of it is coaching IMO, and part is just not having the quality of D to move the puck up in more fast and skillful ways.

Exactly. Sekera's injury only made this worse.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

That's sort of difficult to do when we don't have any "organic" offensive d-men.

This team had a very clear weakness in the 2nd round. Our d-men couldn't transition the puck out of our own zone. That isn't an issue that will be solved by just keeping the same d-core.

We need to upgrade to get better.

I agree to an extent, but I don't think we need to force getting an offensive d-man. I'm comfortable with how Klef, Larsson, Sekera, and Benning move the puck (3 of those 4 are also young enough that they should continue to improve in this regard); like Oobga said part of it was coaching forcing too many plays along the wall to the point of being overly predictable + wingers not picking up when Ducks players were stepping up for the pinch along the wall. Nurse can potentially improve breaking out the puck, but he made some costly errors this series and it was worsened by Sekera's injury drawing Benning off his pairing and replacing him with Gryba.

The central pieces of our d-core can remain, but we 100% need someone more capable of making a play than Gryba and while I don't mind Russell he is quite guilty of forcing the quick play to get the puck out of the zone, which is fine sometimes, but I don't think we got enough zone exits with possession from him. I don't want to close the door on Russell cause he was a good soldier for us, but we should try to get someone better, but if it doesn't look like an upgrade is out there we have to be quick to circle back as I don't have confidence in our ability to have someone fill that role internally.

The Ducks have a good d-core and good puck movers, but we gave them fits as well on the forecheck, sometimes sustained pressure isn't cause the D can't make a play, sometimes it is just the natural ebb and flow of the game. That series easily could of broke our way, like any team you should aim to improve your roster, but we don't need to do anything rash or feel like a bold move is necessary.

 

[LemmyUlanov55]

Any chance wings move Green for Eberle? He'd fit in nicely on the second pairing.

I'd love to see this happening.

 

[Glass Eyes]

That's sort of difficult to do when we don't have any "organic" offensive d-men.

This team had a very clear weakness in the 2nd round. Our d-men couldn't transition the puck out of our own zone. That isn't an issue that will be solved by just keeping the same d-core.

We need to upgrade to get better.

This is all I'm saying and I'm amazed so many are totally fine with going with the same six defensemen next year.

Also, to those saying Russell is better than Green/Pysyk/Petrovic/etc, if Russel is so much better than all those options, then why didn't all these teams scoop him up to play above these defensemen! If he's such a steal, all of those team should be ecstatic to get an upgrade for 3.5m! It's almost as if there was a reason he went unsigned until days before opening night.

They need to continue to upgrade their defense. They don't move the puck/transition it as well as other top teams, and that's a problem.

 

[Jet Walters]

Green - Soft, offensive defenseman who plays a high-risk offensive game. Also probably costs you a big as a one-year rental. Pass.

Pysyk - Played 18 minutes a night, 3 less than Russell's 21. Had some decent supporting stats but Panthers fans don't seem too enthoused about the potential of him moving up the lineup.

Petrovic - I dunno, man. If he was replacing Eric Gryba, I'd be all for it. But moving a guy into the top four with supporting statistics rivalling that of previously mentioned Eric Gryba is risky to say the least. I don't know enough about the player to make a fair assessment of him, but as a guy whose never played over 18 minutes a game in a season, he's a guy you make earn a role. So as a Russell replacement, no. Gryba replacement? Absolutely.

The Islanders - Hamonic? Not available. Boychuk? Too expensive. Pulock? Too green.

Myers - Will he play again? Is his heart still in it? Not the worst target honestly but that second year needs to be offset because they're not taking Eberle. Pouliot would need to be part of the deal.

Trouba - Pie in the sky.

Columbus - Savard? Not available. They'll trade Murray for futures.

Russell is proven here. We own him and he did well. As mentioned, the Oilers are committing additional assets to any 'upgrade' you suggest.

Petrovic has more 5vs5 points than Klefbom in only 3 more games played the last two years combined and you think he's comparable to Gryba???

Petrovic points per 60 5vs5 in that time span= 1.02 Parayko= 1.06. And you get Eric Gryba as a comparable? I'm not saying he's Parayko level either, but certainly closer to him than Gryba. He's only played 155 career games and might just be on the cusp of being a 2nd pair stud for years. His physicality would pair well with Sekera IMO.

 

[MessierII]

This is all I'm saying and I'm amazed so many are totally fine with going with the same six defensemen next year.

Also, to those saying Russell is better than Green/Pysyk/Petrovic/etc, if Russel is so much better than all those options, then why didn't all these teams scoop him up to play above these defensemen! If he's such a steal, all of those team should be ecstatic to get an upgrade for 3.5m! It's almost as if there was a reason he went unsigned until days before opening night.

They need to continue to upgrade their defense. They don't move the puck/transition it as well as other top teams, and that's a problem.

Maybe they should have and might have had a better chance of making the playoffs.

 

[MessierII]

Petrovic has more 5vs5 points than Klefbom in only 3 more games played the last two years combined and you think he's comparable to Gryba???

Petrovic points per 60 5vs5 in that time span= 1.02 Parayko= 1.06. And you get Eric Gryba as a comparable? I'm not saying he's Parayko level either, but certainly closer to him than Gryba. He's only played 155 career games and might just be on the cusp of being a 2nd pair stud for years. His physicality would pair well with Sekera IMO.

What pathetic cherry picking.

 

[Glass Eyes]

I say Petrovic because he's interesting for a lot of reasons. Edmonton guy and I think he satisfies the 'toughness' aspect. Right handed, 18 minutes up front ~16:50 the season before, decent advanced stats . Maybe he can add on another minute or two?

 

[Lessy]

I don't do this too often but I think it's pretty obvious that Russell needs to be replaced with a right-shooting puck mover. Russell had a fantastic season no doubt and was worth every penny of his contract but he's a prime overpay candidate - hopefully this team learned it's lesson with a very similar player in Andrew Ference. With that in mind, here's a deal that I think makes a lot of sense for both sides at the draft.

To Edmonton
Tyson Barrie (3 yr left @ 5.5 AAV)
Joe Colborne (1 yr left @ 2.5 AAV)
2nd Round Pick 2017

To Colorado
Jordan Eberle (2 yr left @ 6 AAV)
Darnell Nurse (1 yr left @ 0.863 AAV + bonuses)
3rd Round Pick 2017

Nurse is about as polarizing a player as there is for Edmonton fans. Personally I question whether he has the hockey sense to be much more than a #4. We'd be selling low on Eberle no question but we'd also be buying low on Barrie and Colborne. Tyson Barrie would be a fantastic fit here and was involved in all kinds of rumours last year involving Edmonton (as was Colborne) prior to signing his extension. Colborne was a mess last year but so was everyone in Colorado and is a year removed from a 19-goal season - if he doesn't work out his contract is done after this year and the McDavid extension). After Nurse's bonuses the salaries are basically a wash. Eberle has close to zero-value at this point and would give Colorado the option of moving a Duchene/Landeskog for D if needed. I think there's enough value going back where Edmonton could swap one of their 2 3rd's to get a 2nd rounder that they lost for Chiarelli (or was it MacLellan?).

 

[Jet Walters]

What pathetic cherry picking.

What? He doesn't cherry pick to get those actual NHL points. He's thought of as a physical defensive D, but somehow he has 1 more point than Klefbom 5vs5 in only 3 more games played the last two years. Or are you one of those guys who evaluates a D on his total points only? Kind of hard to get a look on the PP with Ekblad, Demers, and Yandle/Campbell on the same team.

This isn't some outlandish advanced stat, it's actual point production in the situation the majority of the game is played- 5vs5.

 

[Mr Sakich]

Puljiarvii for trouba after the expansion draft. Jets reunite the fins and we get a #1 RHD

 

[Jumptheshark]

for those asking about my Kovalchuk attitude problems(now that I am on my home computer)

this was last year

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...d-of-ska-captaincy-benched-for-two-more-games

“The decision on Ilya Kovalchuk is this: he has been withdrawn from the squad, and is training on an individual program,” SKA coach and former NHLer Sergei Zubov told the team’s website.

this stripping of the C and benching was linked to a turnover-the problem was not the turnover as it was what happened in the dressing room afterwards. I got only second hand stories--but you can read what you like in benching your top player and stripping of the C and benching him for two days in the playoffs. And Russia removing him from the World Championship team after first being invited

Problems with the devils art the start of the 2010 season Kovalchuk was a healthy scratch due to what coach John Mclean called violation of team team rules and he was a healthy scratch--he did something to upset the coach

https://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/p...althy-scratch-for-the-New-jers?urn=nhl-279354

“That’s between him and I,” MacLean said.“That was my decision.”
“I take responsibility for all my decisions that I make. That’s including that decision and including responsibility for games.” “It was my decision. I made it. He knows. I spoke to him and that’s where it’s going to stay.”

what happened? no one knows

there is a pattern that started in Atlanta--went on to New Jersey and continued in the KHL

as for the rumours of him being dumped on china?

http://bfy.tw/Bm6b

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=kovalchuk+to+china&gws_rd=cr&ei=IXkXWeznEoWIgAaIh7XwDg

 

[Cerebral]

Are there any lateral trades for Eberle that make sense? Maybe to Nashville for Neal? Colorado for Landeskog?

 

[MessierII]

What? He doesn't cherry pick to get those actual NHL points. He's thought of as a physical defensive D, but somehow he has 1 more point than Klefbom 5vs5 in only 3 more games played the last two years. Or are you one of those guys who evaluates a D on his total points only? Kind of hard to get a look on the PP with Ekblad, Demers, and Yandle/Campbell on the same team.

This isn't some outlandish advanced stat, it's actual point production in the situation the majority of the game is played- 5vs5.

Points per 60 is 100% a cherry picked BS argument stat. It works under the premise that if your going to increase a players minutes their production willl increase which simply isn't true. Also Klefbom played like 2 months last year. Your whole post was out of context non sense used to prop up a fringe 6-7 D man.

 

[Jet Walters]

Points per 60 is 100% a cherry picked BS argument stat. It works under the premise that if your going to increase a players minutes their production willl increase which simply isn't true. Also Klefbom played like 2 months last year. Your whole post was out of context non sense used to prop up a fringe 6-7 D man.

Ok. Throw out points per 60 then.

Last two years in 5vs5 situations.

Klefbom- 112 games played, 29 points

Petrovic- 115 games played, 30 points

Petrovic put those totals up in less minutes played too. I'm not even saying he's on Klefbom's level offensively, just that comparing him to Eric Gryba is very dumb. He obviously is doing something right to generate that kind of point production at ES.