Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

[Aaaarrgghh]

I don't blame anyone for wins or losses, too many things happen over the course of a game for it to fall on one person.

As far as the defense goes, it"s hard to just blame that, especially looking at each goalies last 4 starts. Tarasov faced 160 shots to Elvis' 96. Tarasov started against Edmonton, Vegas, Nashville, and San Jose posting a .944 save percentage averaging 40 shots against per start. I threw out the Montreal game because it wasn't a start.

Elvis faced Chicago,Montreal, Ottawa, and Winnipeg posting .865 on 24 shots per start.

Pretty easy to see who had the bigger workload and tougher opponents.

I don't hate Elvis, and am not going to make excuses for him or Tarasov, but when he said he wanted out, I pretty much turned the page on him. I've always thought he was an average goalie, but at his age, and his level of play the last few years, I have no problem moving on from him and wish him well. Tarasov may not work out either, but he is younger, and has less ego, so I think he would be more coachable in the long run.

I can see Merzlikins being moved this summer. But with that contract, it's probably going to be a cap dump to San Jose, Calgary or some team like that (ultimately maybe as a third party for retention purposes, which would exclude the Sharks). It's probably going to be him and a lower-round pick going either way.

If they do move Merzlikins, I'd like to see them get Spencer Knight from Florida. They've wanted to clear him for cap space for a while. Maybe Knight + a middle round pick for Boqvist or something like that?

If they can't move him, I'd just keep him.

 

[Monstershockey]

I can see Merzlikins being moved this summer. But with that contract, it's probably going to be a cap dump to San Jose, Calgary or some team like that (ultimately maybe as a third party for retention purposes, which would exclude the Sharks). It's probably going to be him and a lower-round pick going either way.

If they do move Merzlikins, I'd like to see them get Spencer Knight from Florida. They've wanted to clear him for cap space for a while. Maybe Knight + a middle round pick for Boqvist or something like that?

If they can't move him, I'd just keep him.

It's too bad they gave him that contract. If they can move on from him and not take too much of a hit, then move on. I have no problem keeping him either, but I don't think he would be a number one guy. We would have to split time, which is something I don't want. I would like a reliable starter that takes most of the games.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I don't blame anyone for wins or losses, too many things happen over the course of a game for it to fall on one person.

As far as the defense goes, it"s hard to just blame that, especially looking at each goalies last 4 starts. Tarasov faced 160 shots to Elvis' 96. Tarasov started against Edmonton, Vegas, Nashville, and San Jose posting a .944 save percentage averaging 40 shots against per start. I threw out the Montreal game because it wasn't a start.

Elvis faced Chicago,Montreal, Ottawa, and Winnipeg posting .865 on 24 shots per start.

Pretty easy to see who had the bigger workload and tougher opponents.

I don't hate Elvis, and am not going to make excuses for him or Tarasov, but when he said he wanted out, I pretty much turned the page on him. I've always thought he was an average goalie, but at his age, and his level of play the last few years, I have no problem moving on from him and wish him well. Tarasov may not work out either, but he is younger, and has less ego, so I think he would be more coachable in the long run.

I have no problem with moving on from him. I'm not saying he's the answer. I also have ZERO issue with his ego. He tells it like it is and there are people that don't like that. I've never seen anyone accuse him of being a liar. If people don't like hearing the truth, that issue is more on them than the person saying it IMO.

My real issue is the amount of people who hold grudges because they don't like a player and will then pick and choose stats to support their argument when we should just want the tea to be successful for everyone. It's a polarizing as discussing politics.

I'm still very hesitant on Tarasov as well. Jarmo probably would be giving him a 5 year 5 million dollar contract at this point because he has strung together a string of solid games but he still hasn't shown the full body of work yet. He could easily turn into Steve Mason next season.

When it comes down to it, Elvis was set up to fail last night on the 2nd night of a back to back against a great team while Tarasov was set up to succeed against a god awful hockey team. The haters come out in full force and were licking their lips waiting for last night to happen. There are too many people who revel in Elvis's struggles when he is a part of games like last night when everyone on the ice was a disaster.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I can see Merzlikins being moved this summer. But with that contract, it's probably going to be a cap dump to San Jose, Calgary or some team like that (ultimately maybe as a third party for retention purposes, which would exclude the Sharks). It's probably going to be him and a lower-round pick going either way.

If they do move Merzlikins, I'd like to see them get Spencer Knight from Florida. They've wanted to clear him for cap space for a while. Maybe Knight + a middle round pick for Boqvist or something like that?

If they can't move him, I'd just keep him.

This team won't be competitive next season unless there is a big overhaul of the defense and forwards. If you keep him 1 more year, a buy out the following season becomes ore tenable. Don't do anything now that will eat a bunch of cap space 5-6 years down the road when they will hopefully be decent and could need it.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

This team won't be competitive next season unless there is a big overhaul of the defense and forwards. If you keep him 1 more year, a buy out the following season becomes ore tenable. Don't do anything now that will eat a bunch of cap space 5-6 years down the road when they will hopefully be decent and could need it.

Under no circumstance do I think Columbus should buy him out or retain on his contract.

 

[Monstershockey]

I have no problem with moving on from him. I'm not saying he's the answer. I also have ZERO issue with his ego. He tells it like it is and there are people that don't like that. I've never seen anyone accuse him of being a liar. If people don't like hearing the truth, that issue is more on them than the person saying it IMO.

My real issue is the amount of people who hold grudges because they don't like a player and will then pick and choose stats to support their argument when we should just want the tea to be successful for everyone. It's a polarizing as discussing politics.

I'm still very hesitant on Tarasov as well. Jarmo probably would be giving him a 5 year 5 million dollar contract at this point because he has strung together a string of solid games but he still hasn't shown the full body of work yet. He could easily turn into Steve Mason next season.

When it comes down to it, Elvis was set up to fail last night on the 2nd night of a back to back against a great team while Tarasov was set up to succeed against a god awful hockey team. The haters come out in full force and were licking their lips waiting for last night to happen. There are too many people who revel in Elvis's struggles when he is a part of games like last night when everyone on the ice was a disaster.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't look at it as either goalie was set up to fail or succeed, it was a matter of you play your backup against the lesser team. And in all honesty, I was kind of expecting a clunker from Tarasov because he is probably due for one. That being said, if Elvis is supposed to be your number 1, he should get the Winnipeg game.

As far as Elvis' or anyone's ego, I don't have a problem as long as they walk the walk. Talk is cheap.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Patrik Laine 6-3-9 in 18 games
Alex Nylander 8-3-11 in 11 games

alex nylander only needs to sustain this production* for 100 more games to match laine's production over the last two seasons prior to this one (108p in 111gp)

*18% of his production has come via empty net goal (2 of 11 points), which also contributes to his unsustainably high 20% shooting percentage​

​

nylander's been a bright spot on a sad and dull team, but even this (clearly unsustainable) heater is, essentially, what laine's scoring rate was the entire time brad larsen was the coach.

 

[Indy18]

Under no circumstance do I think Columbus should buy him out or retain on his contract.

50% for 3 years holding 3 mil is better than sitting there eating into cap 5-6 from now when we having alot of young kids who will need paid with all these premium picks we are getting. A 2.7 mil Elvis and probably getting a B-tier prospect in the deal would intrigue a lot of teams around the league for a 1B goalie,

 

[squashmaple]

50% for 3 years holding 3 mil is better than sitting there eating into cap 5-6 from now when we having alot of young kids who will need paid with all these premium picks we are getting. A 2.7 mil Elvis and probably getting a B-tier prospect in the deal would intrigue a lot of teams around the league for a 1B goalie,

Still worse than moving him with no retention for nothing. Retention also means losing that retention slot for three years, and that's a high opportunity cost when you've only got three to begin with.

 

[stevo61]

Still worse than moving him with no retention for nothing. Retention also means losing that retention slot for three years, and that's a high opportunity cost when you've only got three to begin with.

Yeah we could use those to help facilitate other trades for free assets... Or not

This was for CBJWerenski

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Just like Elvis is a mixed bag, I'm a mixed bag when it comes to him.

I suppose one has to leave it entirely in the new GMs hands regarding buyout/no buyout. I think it's at least a year too early to buy him out given his improvement this season and that the CBJ are not going to be contenders next season in all probability.

I don't have an issue with his comments for the most part. They're a function of his personality (excitable and lacking "filter") and the fact the English is not his first (maybe not even 2nd) language. I grant a lot of leeway in evaluating commentary on non native speakers.

That being said, I don't like it when he signals on the ice that it was "that guy's fault" on a goal. His teammates are blocking shots for him and, yes, they will at times screen him foolishly, but that's just an occupational hazard of a goalie. Communication with a player whom he thinks has made an error on a play should ALWAYS be done off the ice in a measured manner and NEVER in full view of the fans. Perhaps a Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur or a goalie of that caliber could reasonably have shown disgust at a teammate every now and again on the ice, but Elvis isn't in that class nor in the same area code as those guys. He needs to get a handle on the on ice criticism yesterday.

His play of late is nothing to write home about, but also little to be concerned about IMO. It's approaching the tail end of another lost season and Elvis isn't playing for a contract or to establish himself in the league. OTOH, Tarasov is playing to establish himself as an NHLer so he has that motivation for playing better at this point. He's got a lot more "skin in the game", if you will, right now.

I doubt Elvis will be leaving the building any time over the off season.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Just like Elvis is a mixed bag, I'm a mixed bag when it comes to him.

I suppose one has to leave it entirely in the new GMs hands regarding buyout/no buyout. I think it's at least a year too early to buy him out given his improvement this season and that the CBJ are not going to be contenders next season in all probability.

I don't have an issue with his comments for the most part. They're a function of his personality (excitable and lacking "filter") and the fact the English is not his first (maybe not even 2nd) language. I grant a lot of leeway in evaluating commentary on non native speakers.

That being said, I don't like it when he signals on the ice that it was "that guy's fault" on a goal. His teammates are blocking shots for him and, yes, they will at times screen him foolishly, but that's just an occupational hazard of a goalie. Communication with a player whom he thinks has made an error on a play should ALWAYS be done off the ice in a measured manner and NEVER in full view of the fans. Perhaps a Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur or a goalie of that caliber could reasonably have shown disgust at a teammate every now and again on the ice, but Elvis isn't in that class nor in the same area code as those guys. He needs to get a handle on the on ice criticism yesterday.

His play of late is nothing to write home about, but also little to be concerned about IMO. It's approaching the tail end of another lost season and Elvis isn't playing for a contract or to establish himself in the league. OTOH, Tarasov is playing to establish himself as an NHLer so he has that motivation for playing better at this point. He's got a lot more "skin in the game", if you will, right now.

I doubt Elvis will be leaving the building any time over the off season.

I wish someone would call out the people making mistakes within the room. Accountability doesn't stop and start with the head coach. The players need to hold each other accountable. I'm not sure what goes on outside of our public eye but all I hear from the team in interviews are sports clichés.

To my eye, it seems like sort of childish to be offended if you were the one who messed up and get called out for it. I have zero frame of reference of Elvis blaming anyone of anything on the ice but I also split in the 2nd intermission last night because it was so bad. If that happened, I feel like they all deserve it including him. That was 2 periods of my life I'll never get back.

 

[Monstershockey]

For all we know people are getting called out. You have people that take it to heart and will try to play better, and people who won't listen, think they aren't the problem, and nothing changes.
Plus, to call people out, your own game better be in order or it will come back on you. I really don't know if we have anyone on this team with the kind of clout that will make guys re-evaluate what they are doing and change the way they play.

 

[VT]

I have no problem with moving on from him. I'm not saying he's the answer. I also have ZERO issue with his ego. He tells it like it is and there are people that don't like that. I've never seen anyone accuse him of being a liar. If people don't like hearing the truth, that issue is more on them than the person saying it IMO.

My real issue is the amount of people who hold grudges because they don't like a player and will then pick and choose stats to support their argument when we should just want the tea to be successful for everyone. It's a polarizing as discussing politics.

I'm still very hesitant on Tarasov as well. Jarmo probably would be giving him a 5 year 5 million dollar contract at this point because he has strung together a string of solid games but he still hasn't shown the full body of work yet. He could easily turn into Steve Mason next season.

When it comes down to it, Elvis was set up to fail last night on the 2nd night of a back to back against a great team while Tarasov was set up to succeed against a god awful hockey team. The haters come out in full force and were licking their lips waiting for last night to happen. There are too many people who revel in Elvis's struggles when he is a part of games like last night when everyone on the ice was a disaster.

Tarasov found himself in a bad position before the season. He couldn't dive train for a long time because he had to treat an injury. Subsequently, he had some problems in training camp. Therefore, if he stays healthy, he should improve.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Tarasov found himself in a bad position before the season. He couldn't dive train for a long time because he had to treat an injury. Subsequently, he had some problems in training camp. Therefore, if he stays healthy, he should improve.

Steve Mason played through Mono to lead this team up the playoffs for the first time ever. Then he fell apart when he was healthy. There is no guarantee anyone will improve next season.

 

[Jovavic]

Can mono mess with your far sight vision? Mason let in a more than normal amount of goals from the blue line.

 

[majormajor]

Elvis has been close to an average goalie this year.

If you don't mind his personality then there is no reason to retain or buy him out. We're not hard pressed to the cap.

I think there may be an issue between Elvis and his teammates but I hate speculating on behind the scenes stuff. I will conclude though, if they buy him out or retain on him, that management thinks there is a problem in the room. Because on ice he is okayish.

Steve Mason played through Mono to lead this team up the playoffs for the first time ever. Then he fell apart when he was healthy. There is no guarantee anyone will improve next season.

This but true for all goalies.

Unless we're bringing in Helle or one of the top few goalies in the game, we don't know what we're going to get. We might bring in a .915 goalie from another org and he'd be .895 here.

 

[Cowumbus]

I have no problem with moving on from him. I'm not saying he's the answer. I also have ZERO issue with his ego. He tells it like it is and there are people that don't like that. I've never seen anyone accuse him of being a liar. If people don't like hearing the truth, that issue is more on them than the person saying it IMO.

My real issue is the amount of people who hold grudges because they don't like a player and will then pick and choose stats to support their argument when we should just want the tea to be successful for everyone. It's a polarizing as discussing politics.

I'm still very hesitant on Tarasov as well. Jarmo probably would be giving him a 5 year 5 million dollar contract at this point because he has strung together a string of solid games but he still hasn't shown the full body of work yet. He could easily turn into Steve Mason next season.

When it comes down to it, Elvis was set up to fail last night on the 2nd night of a back to back against a great team while Tarasov was set up to succeed against a god awful hockey team. The haters come out in full force and were licking their lips waiting for last night to happen. There are too many people who revel in Elvis's struggles when he is a part of games like last night when everyone on the ice was a disaster.

I think you’re projecting some.

Many people have been asking for Elvis to be bought out, my comment was an admission that the idea of doing so isn’t too far fetched for me anymore (I have not been pro buyout, though considering it now).

I find it hard to blame him for tonight but hey, go ahead and ride that train.

Tarasov got the worst team in the league last night and Elvis drew the #5 team in the league on the 2nd night of a back to back where the entire team play like they were already celebrating St. Patty's day. Just keep that in mind for perspective.

Nobody posts anything about Elvis being bought out after he beats the Rangers, Senators or Blackhawks with a save percentage over .929 in his previous last 3 full games.

It goes all the way back to earlier in the season when people were saying Elvis was playing “better” yet was still a below average goalie. You can still be a decent goalie on a bad team, or at least show more than he has. Keep in mind Elvis is the 11th highest paid goalie in the league yet is being outplayed by goalies like Petr Mrazek in Chicago, or Sam Montembeault in Montreal, who are on just as bad of teams. He’s a below average to average goalie before any of the off-ice stuff (see @majormajor post above). He is paid as a 1G, says he is not a backup, but this is where we are at… Not sure how management feels about it, but if it’s a distraction maybe it makes sense to ship him out.

How much of Elvis’s play early in his career is due to Torts system? Who knows…? The advanced stats guys seemed to consider him to be average at the time.

 

[koteka]

Goalies are weird. Check this guy out. Former 7th round pick. This season, of 42 goalies who have started 25 or more games, he is 6th in GAA and 2nd in save %. Can you guess who he is?

Joey Daccord

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I think you’re projecting some.

Many people have been asking for Elvis to be bought out, my comment was an admission that the idea of doing so isn’t too far fetched for me anymore (I have not been pro buyout, though considering it now).

It goes all the way back to earlier in the season when people were saying Elvis was playing “better” yet was still a below average goalie. You can still be a decent goalie on a bad team, or at least show more than he has. Keep in mind Elvis is the 11th highest paid goalie in the league yet is being outplayed by goalies like Petr Mrazek in Chicago, or Sam Montembeault in Montreal, who are on just as bad of teams. He’s a below average to average goalie before any of the off-ice stuff (see @majormajor post above). He is paid as a 1G, says he is not a backup, but this is where we are at… Not sure how management feels about it, but if it’s a distraction maybe it makes sense to ship him out.

How much of Elvis’s play early in his career is due to Torts system? Who knows…? The advanced stats guys seemed to consider him to be average at the time.

I'm not saying he's great but he is better than last year just as we hoped and he's still being treated like trash. Jarmo gave him the contract. This team is well known to just have huge mental collapses but only Elvis gets the blame for it.

We can make all the excuses we want but the team defense is absolute trash. Tarasov has hit a hot streak right now but just as the same holds true for Nylander there is a really good change he'll cool off.

As far as Elvis goes, He started off much stronger and then the front office started jerking him around and it has clearly impacted his play and focus. You could absolutely stick Mrazek or Montebeault on this team and they could have .860 save percentages too.

We are an F'd up organization and I do believe Elvis will perform better in a place that is willing to support him and build him up versus this place that crucifies his every move. This organization doesn't build people's confidence. They make them fear making mistakes. We got the Babcock effect without ever really having Babcock around.

 

[cslebn]

alex nylander only needs to sustain this production* for 100 more games to match laine's production over the last two seasons prior to this one (108p in 111gp)

*18% of his production has come via empty net goal (2 of 11 points), which also contributes to his unsustainably high 20% shooting percentage​

​

nylander's been a bright spot on a sad and dull team, but even this (clearly unsustainable) heater is, essentially, what laine's scoring rate was the entire time brad larsen was the coach.

I'm shocked no one had mentioned he's basically the new Roslovic

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I'm shocked no one had mentioned he's basically the new Roslovic

another fun "what happens if you extrapolate nylander's production to a full season" exercise is looking at his empty net goals. he has two in 11 games, which would put him on pace for 15 in a full season. the single-season record is 9.

the roslovic comp isn't off-base, but i will say roslovic had a lot of moments where i watched him and thought "this guy stinks" and i haven't had any of that so far with nylander.

 

[squashmaple]

Goalies are weird. Check this guy out. Former 7th round pick. This season, of 42 goalies who have started 25 or more games, he is 6th in GAA and 2nd in save %. Can you guess who he is?

View attachment 838006


Joey Daccord

Joey Daccord?


Edit: Oh, just noticed your spoiler with the answer. Sweet, got it right.

 

[cslebn]

another fun "what happens if you extrapolate nylander's production to a full season" exercise is looking at his empty net goals. he has two in 11 games, which would put him on pace for 15 in a full season. the single-season record is 9.

the roslovic comp isn't off-base, but i will say roslovic had a lot of moments where i watched him and thought "this guy stinks" and i haven't had any of that so far with nylander.

But man when Roslovic was on.... it was so frustrating because he could be so good and then so bad. I'm just waiting for the other shoe with Nylander though sometimes it just takes the right moment and growth to have it click Ala JAM, Thompson, etc