Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[NYR Viper]

The reason people are scared of Copp is in year 2, when Miller and Lafreniere need contracts. They really won’t be in a spot where they would lose someone biaUFA, it just may mean a short bridge for one of them which has its positives/negatives. For example, if you bridge a young player and then sign them long term after the bridge their cap hit will be higher but you also could conceivably lock them in with the team until they’re 30-32 years old in lieu of 28-30.

 

[JimmyG89]

Backlund at 2C is a little risky. I can see it being a Matt Cullen situation when he was with the Rangers, a really really good 3C who was in over his head as a 2C.

The biggest difference is that Cullen didn't get to play with a line driver in Panarin. Backlund would allow the wingers on that line to go for it. If they wanted to go all out offense, you could go with Lafreniere or Kravtsov on that line combo.

Would allow for Kakko to be used with Zibanejad and Kreider as a possession beast in the corners.

Backlund would be the perfect type of center to pick up for this team. Look at how he performed this postseason too. His game is built for that.

 

[Ola]

I will say this, you watch Colorado and Tampa, you need high motor players on every line. Can’t ever stop forechecking and moving your feet. The Compher’s, Lehkonen’s, etc. Copp is our souped up Compher but I’m starting to walk back my idea of bringing him back if it costs $5.5M for 5-6 years. This team has kids to bring back now and in a couple years. You can’t get crazy here. Although, part of me then realizes Copp is capable of playing 20 mins a game and in every situation while also providing solid 55-60 point offense. Ugh. Drury has decisions to make. One thing I do know, no shot I’m paying any fourth liners $2.5M. Motte is a horse, but those are guys Sakic, BriesBois, all find for cheap. You can’t pay these guys top money or you end up the Isles.

100% agree, and it’s just so obvious.

Sure you need warriors, guys willing to get their hands dirty. But Tampa is paying 3 of 4 of their players with size 3m in total and they got them for free on short term contracts.

 

[Raspewtin]

If the NYR do end up re-acquiring Miller it’s gonna be really interesting seeing everyone who thinks he’s some new player watch him on a regular basis again when his PP time/role isn't the same.

He’s still prone to the same occasional gaffes he made when he was here that drove this board insane.



Depends on what the read on Robertson is, which I won’t pretend to have. But surprising that he didn’t even get a cup of coffee on the 3rd pair.

If the contract is better than Copp’s demands both in AAV and term, and the player a bit fit for the team due to his skill set than Strome (and also w less term) I could see some appeal.

miller won’t be a 100 point player here probably but he’s still a drastically better player than he was with NYR (and despite the revisionist history, he was a pretty good ranger)

 

[Go Rangers]

Been beating this drum but I would say a majority, if not vast majority, of posters can’t get over POINTS. I get that he paced for 100 points in the regular season, but that’s a great reason to move on, in my opinion. Teams that don’t watch Panarin intently night in and out will see the opportunity to add a 90+ point winger to their roster. It’s a good opportunity for us to shed cap, add a solid younger top six guy with upside and a couple of quality prospects, gain massive flexibility for the future and get out of the Panarin contract before it becomes ugly.

The regular season production this year was a fugazi. This is a retread of my previous posts but his first year pacing for 100 points here, he was 1st in the league in even strength production and had the best 5v5 goal differential in the league. Anyone watching could tell he was a tenacious puck hound who didn’t hesitate to drive the net or shoot just as often as make a dazzling pass. This year, while pacing for 100 points, he was 18th in even strength production - his first finish outside of the top 10 ever, but also a continued drop from last season, when he was 10th for the first time ever - and 56th in the NHL in 5v5 goal differential which is a huge drop in impact from his first season. He also picked up 38% of his points on the PP.

That is not the trajectory of someone I want 11.6M committed to on a team that will need to retain its young core and keep this window open. People will say it’s one year, but even last year, before the Wilson incident, his 5v5 goal differential had dropped to 51st from 1st and it was his lowest ever finish in 5v5 production until this year. He’s trending in the wrong direction and, as you said, at 31 he isn’t going to suddenly start attacking the center of the ice again when he’s as secure as can be with his contract.

The way I see it is this - let’s pretend we just came off the season we had but Panarin didn’t exist and we had an extra 12M in cap space (I know we wouldn’t have had the exact same season and Panarin’s money wouldn’t just be sitting there, bare with me). Would you guys want to go out and sign Gaudreau for 11M? I wouldn’t. I’d much rather add a 7M guy who will put up 20 less points and keep that cap space for other upgrades. Same concept with bread. I’d rather trade him for a 6M guy and prospects, or some such, and make other upgrades to this team. Flip Panarin, go out and sign PLD as a UFA next year. Whatever. LW is Kreider, Lafreniere, Otthman… Bread isn’t going to play the game we need to win a Cup and we won’t ever afford a real 2C while giving him 12M.

Would Vegas be an option? Salary for salary trade obviously. They have players we might like.

 

[Riche16]

Bread is really tough to evaluate. He's an incredible, all world player on the power play or whenever else he has time and space.

However, he's small and he's painfully slow. Like Reaves slow. Because of this, in the playoffs he was actually a detriment 5v5. This allowed other teams to throw everything match-up wise at the zib line (particularly on the road), which caused the Carolina series to go seven, and ultimately wore down the entire team against Tampa.

Couple this with bread being the second highest paid player in the league (he takes up the space of basically two kreiders or two copps or whatever other combination of 12 milliondollar players suits your fancy), and a pretty good argument could be made that bread is the reason the rangers struggle 5v5.

Obviously, a team can win in the regular season with this great pp, mediocre (at best) 5v5 formula. The question is can a team win a cup with a player like bread taking up the cap space he does?

I honestly couldn't have said it better myself (last line wise).

I love the guy see the OBV talent, vision & ability but in the playoffs I seriously doubt his effectiveness.

That being said... I don't see the kids being even close to as good as he is (folks will be angry w me for saying it without saying YET, so I guess I'll capitulate) so the question becomes:

OK say we're gonna trade Bread (almost impossible) and do what then?

Give a boatload of money to players on this squad who have yet to prove they can carry the play or make teams back off etc? Find someone else to buoy this team's growing pains?

I dunno

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The Rangers spend decades trying to get a player like Panarin, and after an albeit mediocre playoffs in which he was obviously hurt, we want to trade him

Just laughable

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I honestly couldn't have said it better myself (last line wise).

I love the guy see the OBV talent, vision & ability but in the playoffs I seriously doubt his effectiveness.

That being said... I don't see the kids being even close to as good as he is (folks will be angry w me for saying it without saying YET, so I guess I'll capitulate) so the question becomes:

OK say we're gonna trade Bread (almost impossible) and do what then?

Give a boatload of money to players on this squad who have yet to prove they can carry the play or make teams back off etc? Find someone else to buoy this team's growing pains?

I dunno

Well that depends on the return which would be significant. He played poorly in these playoffs but he is still a world class player and 100 point players don't grow on trees. He also has played well in previous playoffs he has been in. I honestly don't know what the problem was this year. I still think he was injured.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The Rangers spend decades trying to get a player like Panarin, and after an albeit mediocre playoffs in which he was obviously hurt, we want to trade him

Just laughable

It's always "what have you done for me lately" for some on this board. I have also seen trade Fox, Mika, Kreider, Trouba, Shesty, Lindgren, Laf, Kakko, Chytil when they have had a bad game or 2. I'm sure I have missed a few also.

 

[Riche16]

Well that depends on the return which would be significant. He played poorly in these playoffs but he is still a world class player and 100 point players don't grow on trees. He also has played well in previous playoffs he has been in. I honestly don't know what the problem was this year. I still think he was injured.

Pricetag tho

 

[bbny]

The Rangers spend decades trying to get a player like Panarin, and after an albeit mediocre playoffs in which he was obviously hurt, we want to trade him

Just laughable

Not we. There’s like 4 people who want to. One of those folks is bern on the main boards trying to trade Lafreneiere/Panarin/+ to Ottawa for Sanderson and #7.

The whole idea is approaching “need a helmet with stickers on it to cross the street” at this point.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I continue to wonder whether the Rangers will promote Chytil and sign/trade for a 3C. The Rangers have very little breathing room cap-wise. A 2C will be more expensive than a 3C. Who is trading a young, cost-controlled 2C for Lundkvist, Kravtsov, or Othmann. Are they willing to allocate the term and cap hit for Strome or Copp?

Chytil is a 3c, thats what he is. Wishing him to be more isnt changing that

 

[Ned Braden]

The Rangers spend decades trying to get a player like Panarin, and after an albeit mediocre playoffs in which he was obviously hurt, we want to trade him

Just laughable

He's an all world playmaker that's great on the power play. He's also small and slow and has been so since he got here.

I'm not necessarily saying trade him...I'm saying Drury has to decide if the rangers can be that reliant on the power play and win the cup...because as long as he's eating up 12 million in cap space and not driving play 5v5 the rangers will struggle there. We just watched 20 playoff games where the opposing coach never once had to consider matching up with the rangers highest paid player. You tell me what your solution is for that...

It's always "what have you done for me lately" for some on this board. I have also seen trade Fox, Mika, Kreider, Trouba, Shesty, Lindgren, Laf, Kakko, Chytil when they have had a bad game or 2. I'm sure I have missed a few also.

No it's not. He's small, slow, and the highest paid player on the team. I don't want it to be a problem. It just is.

 

[Ned Braden]

Well that depends on the return which would be significant. He played poorly in these playoffs but he is still a world class player and 100 point players don't grow on trees. He also has played well in previous playoffs he has been in. I honestly don't know what the problem was this year. I still think he was injured.

Reasonable post...but would the return be significant? Honest question...do we think another nhl team would give up significant pieces for bread without the rangers eating some contract? I'm not sure they would...

 

[AirGut]

Well this is kind of eye-opening for me. This whole Panarin rumor drama really helps me understand and weed out the Hockey fans who simply don't understand the business side of the sport even a little, and simply don't want to.

I genuinely can't believe there are people who believe Arthur Staple, an Islanders homer, has some insight over whether Artemi Panarin is going to be traded. You know, the franchise player who not too long ago signed a 7 year deal? It's absolutely asinine that people think a Panarin trade is even circling within Drury's mind. It's in the realm of pure fiction and reading some of the main board and all the trade proposals hurt my brain

 

[Anthony5967]

Well this is kind of eye-opening for me. This whole Panarin rumor drama really helps me understand and weed out the Hockey fans who simply don't understand the business side of the sport even a little, and simply don't want to.

I genuinely can't believe there are people who believe Arthur Staple, an Islanders homer, has some insight over whether Artemi Panarin is going to be traded. You know, the franchise player who not too long ago signed a 7 year deal? It's absolutely asinine that people think a Panarin trade is even circling within Drury's mind. It's in the realm of pure fiction and reading some of the main board and all the trade proposals hurt my brain

Well said. The same beat writer that all year wrote about how Krav and Drury weren’t talking only for us to find out they were and surprised when they re-upped with him. Staple is a clown.

 

[NYR2007]

I love that people are still saying all these players were injured. Has any of that been confirmed ?

 

[WojtekWolski86]

The Rangers spend decades trying to get a player like Panarin, and after an albeit mediocre playoffs in which he was obviously hurt, we want to trade him

Just laughable

Gaborik and Nash would like to have a word.

The only reason we don't have the chew people up and spit them out reputation of Vegas is the country club atmosphere with how players are treated when they play and after they play for us. Otherwise we can be just as ruthless with recency bias.

 

[Anthony5967]

I love that people are still saying all these players were injured. Has any of that been confirmed ?

No, just some excuses to help ease the pain of some guys underperforming in certain spots. It happens. You have to be better. If there were any big injuries, we would have found out by now.

 

[cheech70]

Well this is kind of eye-opening for me. This whole Panarin rumor drama really helps me understand and weed out the Hockey fans who simply don't understand the business side of the sport even a little, and simply don't want to.

I genuinely can't believe there are people who believe Arthur Staple, an Islanders homer, has some insight over whether Artemi Panarin is going to be traded. You know, the franchise player who not too long ago signed a 7 year deal? It's absolutely asinine that people think a Panarin trade is even circling within Drury's mind. It's in the realm of pure fiction and reading some of the main board and all the trade proposals hurt my brain

Yes just like the manufactured tension between Kakko and the NYR for sitting against Tampa..pure bs

 

[Savant]

The reason people are scared of Copp is in year 2, when Miller and Lafreniere need contracts. They really won’t be in a spot where they would lose someone biaUFA, it just may mean a short bridge for one of them which has its positives/negatives. For example, if you bridge a young player and then sign them long term after the bridge their cap hit will be higher but you also could conceivably lock them in with the team until they’re 30-32 years old in lieu of 28-30.

I’m “scared” of signing Copp because he isn’t a center. Or at least there is no evidence that he is anymore. Especially on the Rangers. The Rangers cap is not healthy enough to get their center signing wrong. Copp is an unnecessary risk, who is going to cost a ton, who hasn’t played center regularly in years. He didn’t for the Rangers. He didn’t full time for the Jets. Period.

 

[broadwayblue]

The Rangers spend decades trying to get a player like Panarin, and after an albeit mediocre playoffs in which he was obviously hurt, we want to trade him

Just laughable

But he wasn't hurt.

 

[bhamill]

I love that people are still saying all these players were injured. Has any of that been confirmed ?

Kreider required surgery. if he didn’t we probably wouldn’t have gotten any confirmation he was injured.
Strome needs surgery. If he didn’t we probably wouldn’t have gotten any confirmation he was injured.
Goodrow was playing on a mending broken foot/ankle.
Who knows who else had injuries that reduced their effectiveness? The team isn’t ever in a hurry to reveal the medical problems of the players. There are a few that certainly seemed to me to be injured, in some cases missing games at the end of the season before playing playoff games. You want to believe that everyone was 100% and just shit the bed in the playoffs? Thats fine, but you aren’t going on any more information than anyone else.

But he wasn't hurt.

Source?

 

[broadwayblue]

Kreider required surgery. if he didn’t we probably wouldn’t have gotten any confirmation he was injured.
Strome needs surgery. If he didn’t we probably wouldn’t have gotten any confirmation he was injured.
Goodrow was playing on a mending broken foot/ankle.
Who knows who else had injuries that reduced their effectiveness? The team isn’t ever in a hurry to reveal the medical problems of the players. There are a few that certainly seemed to me to be injured, in some cases missing games at the end of the season before playing playoff games. You want to believe that everyone was 100% and just shit the bed in the playoffs? Thats fine, but you aren’t going on any more information than anyone else.


Source?

It's not a conspiracy theory. We know which guys were injured. Panarin wasn't one of them.

 

[n8]

Source?

Do we equally have a source that says he was? Because until we do, isn't the default assumption that he wasn't because they would have said something by now if he was.