Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[Riche16]

Oh, I see. You want young players who don't take time to develop. Sorry...5 minutes for instigating...but still true.

Miller's shown growth with increased opportunity the last 3 seasons. This is Vesey's 2nd season in the NHL. SECOND! Is it too much to ask for some patience while he develops? Hayes is a question mark for me but as long as he doesn't price himself out of town, he's at least a 3rd line center with size, who I hope can grow into an effective two-way player. (For the record, you can;t talk about inconsistency and exclude Kreider from the conversation).

The Rangers don't currently have adequate depth up front, and a better center than DD would have been very nice, but I think the forward group is just fine moving forward with the youth it has. Defense is another story. Skjei's the only young blood there (I 'm not sure ADA is going to help much in the future but I'm willing to wait and see). Holden and Smith have looked much worse than last season, which has surprised me, but even with that we're tied for 6th place in the East. I guess it's called NHL parity.

I have zero complaint about players developing. None.

But those pieces you mentioned are complimentary players... they’re NOT building blocks of a good team. That’s not a core... that’s having silverwear and napkins and no table to set them on.

 

[Avery16]

I think the love for Stralman and Hagelin is a little overblown, (especially so for Hags, given salary and production) but Stralman would definitely fix a few things with this team. We made the wrong choice between he and Girardi, but I think 9/10 GMs would have also, and what’s done is done.

 

[Avery16]

Also should remember that Hags, Boyle, Callahan, Stralman all moved because we knew their UFA asks would have been more than they we currently worth (and except for Stralman’s case, more than they would ever be worth). They capitalized on their success here, and took the money somewhere else. Grabner will likely do the same, as will Nash.

 

[kovazub94]

I actually have a different than Brook's conclusion on the state of the team in the context of this season. The Rangers have been shorthanded from the start even when everyone is healthy and they are no worse than anyone else in the East, sans TBL. This is not to say they need to give up a first or otherwise mortgage the future but if there's a smart deal out there for a top 6 forward for a combination of replaceable parts and lesser picks then I don't see why it should be past on.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I actually have a different than Brook's conclusion on the state of the team in the context of this season. The Rangers have been shorthanded from the start even when everyone is healthy and they are no worse than anyone else in the East, sans TBL. This is not to say they need to give up a first or otherwise mortgage the future but if there's a smart deal out there for a top 6 forward for a combination of replaceable parts and lesser picks then I don't see why it should be past on.

This is dangerous thinking that has/will lead to mistakes at the trade deadline.

 

[kovazub94]

This is dangerous thinking that has/will lead to mistakes at the trade deadline.

No it's not. There could be a middle ground between not sacrificing the future and giving up on the season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Doesn't look to me like any of the guys drafted with our picks are even close to Buch (CBJ 3rd round pick) or Hayes (Chi 1st round pick) that we stole as a FA. I think overall we came out way ahead.

Did we lose talent or not? Teams gain talent in all sorts of ways, you named two ways we gained two NHL talents, we lost probably like 6 or 7 NHL'ers from a span of 4 drafts and definitely some depth right below the NHL level. From those four drafts, we'll be lucky to have drafted and kept 4 NHL'ers (even counting picks that we got from other teams). Teams should be getting double that. And given where we will have produced these NHL'ers from (mid rounds), how much better would we be if we had early round picks? We are a good drafting team.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Did we lose talent or not? Teams gain talent in all sorts of ways, you named two ways we gained two NHL talents, we lost probably like 6 or 7 NHL'ers from a span of 4 drafts and definitely some depth right below the NHL level. From those four drafts, we'll be lucky to have drafted and kept 4 NHL'ers (even counting picks that we got from other teams). Teams should be getting double that. And given where we will have produced these NHL'ers from (mid rounds), how much better would we be if we had early round picks? We are a good drafting team.

I think it’s also important to add that those guys you listed don’t necessarily mean that we missed out on a player better than Buch, but rather that they could be complementary pieces that bolster our prospect pool and give us more options down the road. Feel like that’s an obvious point, but felt that it needed to be stated anyways

 

[NickyFotiu]

Did we lose talent or not? Teams gain talent in all sorts of ways, you named two ways we gained two NHL talents, we lost probably like 6 or 7 NHL'ers from a span of 4 drafts and definitely some depth right below the NHL level. From those four drafts, we'll be lucky to have drafted and kept 4 NHL'ers (even counting picks that we got from other teams). Teams should be getting double that. And given where we will have produced these NHL'ers from (mid rounds), how much better would we be if we had early round picks? We are a good drafting team.

That depends on how you define talent. Was Tanner Glass "talent"? How many of those NHL players you named are in the NHL or playing significant minutes?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No it's not. There could be a middle ground ground between not sacrificing the future and giving up on the season.

I'm not sure that's been phrased properly to account for both sides.

We wouldn't be sacrificing future that doesn't exist within our organization to not trade Grabner and Nash, but we wouldn't be strenghtenimg our future, which is rather dim according to any non-Rangers homer.

Trading McDonagh and Zuccarello is a completely different consideration that maybe could wait until the draft, if it's done, but I don't see how this team doesn't trade away two players who could both likely fetch us a first round pick, given how it's not even a given we make the playoffs.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No it's not. There could be a middle ground between not sacrificing the future and giving up on the season.

Im not quite sure where that middle ground is given the Rangers current situation. There's buying, there's standing pat, and there's selling. Its just my opinion that buying is very unacceptable, and standing pat is unacceptable. The Rangers have immediate decisions to make on Nash and Grabner --- decisions on McDonagh and Zuccarello will be coming very soon as well. I hope, for once, the Rangers maximize a return on these assets rather than talking themselves into the loose fact that they are one of the best teams in the east as is.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That depends on how you define talent. Was Tanner Glass "talent"? How many of those NHL players you named are in the NHL or playing significant minutes?

As I said, it's too early to judge this. The answer is few but you could say the same thing about Shestyorkin, Pionk, Graves, they aren't in the NHL yet, they must suck!

These are very recent drafts, but based on the picks we gave up and the percentages of players in those spots being NHL'ers, I don't see how what I said is incorrect.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’d rather they sell and try to stop being a middling team then move assets at the deadline for what will amount to another first or second round exit

 

[NickyFotiu]

As I said, it's too early to judge this. The answer is few but you could say the same thing about Shestyorkin, Pionk, Graves, they aren't in the NHL yet, they must suck!

These are very recent drafts, but based on the picks we gave up and the percentages of players in those spots being NHL'ers, I don't see how what I said is incorrect.

What you said isn't correct or incorrect but its insignificant. Its like saying Buch was a 3rd rounder so equating all other 3rd rounds to Buch. Just because a guy touches NHL ice doesn't make them significant talent. We have to look at the details. I'd take Buch (2014 pick) and Hayes (2014 FA) over all the guys you named at this point in time.

 

[egelband]

I have zero complaint about players developing. None.

But those pieces you mentioned are complimentary players... they’re NOT building blocks of a good team. That’s not a core... that’s having silverwear and napkins and no table to set them on.

I think Miller is more of a building block than a complimentary player for this team. Depends on your definition, of course. But if you think of your top two lines of forwards, your top three D and goalie as building blocks, I think Miller’s in that group. He certainly is paid like one, which indicates the Rangers think that way too. Vesey is more of a glue guy, for sure. But I think, as fans, one of the keys for this season is whether Miller and Kreider can lead this team deep into the playoffs. As well as Zibs.

 

[Rick Nash 61]

Would you guys part with a package like this for EK65?

McDonagh/Skjei
Andersson/Chytil
2019 1st

Would Ottawa do it?

Yes it's for less than 2 years but if we got him I'd like our chances of re-signing him. Also I'd rather part with one of Andersson/Chytil over Shesty.

 

[RGY]

The Rangers are not trading for EK.

Let’s move on to more realistic targets vs needs. Like forward depth and talent

 

[DanielBrassard]

Would you guys part with a package like this for EK65?

McDonagh/Skjei
Andersson/Chytil
2019 1st

Would Ottawa do it?

Yes it's for less than 2 years but if we got him I'd like our chances of re-signing him. Also I'd rather part with one of Andersson/Chytil over Shesty.

Skjei+Andersson+1st would be a no-brainer. If the Rangers dont sell at the TD and ottawa would make that trade itd be dumb to turn it away

 

[NickyFotiu]

Would you guys part with a package like this for EK65?

McDonagh/Skjei
Andersson/Chytil
2019 1st

Would Ottawa do it?

Yes it's for less than 2 years but if we got him I'd like our chances of re-signing him. Also I'd rather part with one of Andersson/Chytil over Shesty.

Lets say Ek and McD are even defensively for discussion sake.
Would Ek's extra 30 points a year offensively be worth Brady, Anderson, Chytil, 2019 1st plus a 12 mill a year contract?

 

[Kupo]

Skjei+Andersson+1st would be a no-brainer. If the Rangers dont sell at the TD and ottawa would make that trade itd be dumb to turn it away

It’d be even dumber to move those affordable contacts and all that potential for a player that can walk in a year + 1/2.

It’d be even dumber if we made that trade then gave him an 8 year/80m contract.

 

[kovazub94]

This team is not the one that's full of oldtimers and a barren prospect pool. The core is pretty young and they just brought a few prospects both up front and at the backend. Of course ANY team would love to have extra picks and prospects but the team should be just fine if they simply hold on to their higher picks without force selling every UFA upcoming after this season or next.

 

[Rick Nash 61]

Lets say Ek and McD are even defensively for discussion sake.
Would Ek's extra 30 points a year offensively be worth Brady, Anderson, Chytil, 2019 1st plus a 12 mill a year contract?

Slashes meant one or the other, not all of them.

It’d be even dumber to move those affordable contacts and all that potential for a player that can walk in a year + 1/2.

It’d be even dumber if we made that trade then gave him an 8 year/80m contract.

I think that would be a fair contract for the third best player in hockey. He brought a playoff bubble team to the ECF last year lol.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It’d be even dumber to move those affordable contacts and all that potential for a player that can walk in a year + 1/2.

It’d be even dumber if we made that trade then gave him an 8 year/80m contract.

It's Erik Karlsson. I think you are hugging Andersson and Skjei way too closely if you wouldn't make that trade.

 

[Kupo]

Slashes meant one or the other, not all of them.



I think that would be a fair contract for the third best player in hockey. He brought a playoff bubble team to the ECF last year lol.

We’re in no position to be sacrificing players like Skjei, Andersson, and a 1st for a player signed for another 1.5 years who’s going to command a whopping contract.

Just no.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think the Rangers are learning their lesson - one day the fans will. Youth and cost controlled players are becoming more important each year in the NHL. Yet, somehow, people still want to trade the Rangers best young position player, best prospect, and a 1st rounder, for a guy like Karlsson who had made it no secret that he will be breaking the bank very soon. Do people really think Karlsson's best days are ahead of him? If so, it wont be for very long.