Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VI: Gorton's Way

[darko]

Staal wasn't terrible before his injuries but Rangers fans overrate how good he was.

He was basically Erik Johnson. 2nd pair D, solid, but as run-of-the-mill as it gets.

Yeah right.

Legit top pairing when at his peak.

 

[ponzu4u]

agreed. Sadly that peak was 5+ seasons ago. At this point a lot of people have seen more of post-injuries Staal than pre.

 

[Mikos87]

Bops made a good point about Holden's offensive value...

Which is why based on his performance, that's a 2nd plus a prospect.

There are some NHL players that I would trade Holden for $.75 on the dollar...

But overall the team is better with him unless 2 out of the 3 kids out play him..

Marc's got to come in to camp in incredible shape and apply himself... There are puck movers that will cover his weaknesses if he's slitting in every night.

However, the Rangers are two forwards short, and they will need to make a move to get that player.

I think that you make value deals and not premium ones given the circumstances now... Rangers have a good chance to have their cake and eat it too with 2 smart moves.

And one of those can be a waiver pick up.. so the players slot in their proper roles.

AA is a luxury worth paying a premium for.. not a first but a 2nd or 3rd and Nieves+/Graves..

That's worth it.

So is a 5th for Sheahan

Then you fleece a western team short on defense for a 2nd and an NHL ready option

 

[Mikos87]

BTW if Chara loses another step, a Holden for Spooner deal makes sense for both teams.

Boston's LD sucks and they lack depth.

 

[Alluckks]

Around 1:44, you can see Holden wearing #55

I know people might not like Amanda's analysis or overall reporting, but her interviews are just so much more pleasant to watch - relaxed, normal conversations with the players, just easier to listen to.

 

[Alluckks]

BTW if Chara loses another step, a Holden for Spooner deal makes sense for both teams.

Boston's LD sucks and they lack depth.

I think Spooner holds a decent bit more value

 

[Ori]

I know people might not like Amanda's analysis or overall reporting, but her interviews are just so much more pleasant to watch - relaxed, normal conversations with the players, just easier to listen to.

They are normal people just like you and me - the main difference is media and their background. She is a good journalist no doubts about that - I felt Jim Cerny was sometimes too excited in some situations - not that is a bad thing, but yeah you`re accurate she is more relaxed so it feels all natural and a pleasant conversation.

 

[rangers1314]

Yandle and Shattenkirk (and even pre concussion/eye injury Staal) may have something to say about this...

It's more about how good I think Skeji can be, not about undervaluing those players. I think you can make the argument that Brady is, or can be, more well rounded than both Marc and Keith ever were.

 

[nyr2k2]

It's more about how good I think Skeji can be, not about undervaluing those players. I think you can make the argument that Brady is, or can be, more well rounded than both Marc and Keith ever were.

Skjei may bring more to the table in terms of puck movement than Staal ever did, but a prime Marc Staal was a true shutdown defender. Skjei has the potential to be a great defensive player but he's not there yet. Definitely not on par with peak Staal. He's young though and could certainly get there.

 

[CasusBelli]

Skjei may bring more to the table in terms of puck movement than Staal ever did, but a prime Marc Staal was a true shutdown defender. Skjei has the potential to be a great defensive player but he's not there yet. Definitely not on par with peak Staal. He's young though and could certainly get there.

Skjei reminds me a bit of Bouwmeester. Would you say that's a fair comparison? (At least in terms of style; not many NHL defensemen outskate JB in his prime)

 

[Edge]

Yeah right.

Legit top pairing when at his peak.

Yeah, I think people tend to forget just how good he was before the McD surpassed him and injuries changed his entire trajectory.

This was a guy who was in that 8-10 goal, 30 point range, was getting better, and was already capable of shutting down ELITE-level talent.

He and Girardi were an understated, if not formidable pairing back in the day.

 

[Edge]

Skjei reminds me a bit of Bouwmeester. Would you say that's a fair comparison? (At least in terms of style; not many NHL defensemen outskate JB in his prime)

I can see that. The key difference being that he's playing in a league where a lot of those tools are more valuable than ever before.

For years a lot of teams looked for either big offensive numbers, or a nasty streak when evaluating defensemen. They became so fixated on those abilities that they often overlooked the most important one - whether the guy could actually play good defense.

In the last 5-7 years, you've seen a shift in how teams approach defensemen. The "solid, but unspectacular" two-way guys that they tended to take for granted, are now the guys that everyone is looking for. Especially the ones who can really skate.

When we look at the Rangers we see examples of guys who rose (McD, Skjei) and fell with this shift (Staal, Girardi). Granted there were other factors such as injuries. But even without injuries, the skating differences would've had both pairs of players trending in opposite directions, just maybe not quite as noticeably.

 

[Kovalev27]

Marc Staal ate Sidney Crosbys lunch for a couple years there. In our comeback series victory over them staal was a beast in as late at that 14-15 run.

Now having said that I don't see where the eye injury should affect how slow and out of shape he's looked the last couple of seasons. The concussion issues prob have more to do with that than anything else.

I don't expect pts anymore due to the eye. He cant handle passes at all. But I do expect him to be able to defend and kill penalties and he can't do anything right now. Will be interesting to see what we get from him.

 

[Kaapodonna]

Yeah, I think people tend to forget just how good he was before the McD surpassed him and injuries changed his entire trajectory.

This was a guy who was in that 8-10 goal, 30 point range, was getting better, and was already capable of shutting down ELITE-level talent.

He and Girardi were an understated, if not formidable pairing back in the day.

This! I used to love watching Staal put Ovie on his butt every time he tried to enter the zone! He had great positioning, and a great stick to. Also very strong. Man, those injuries, specifically the eye injury really put a hurting on his carrier trajectory. =(

 

[CasusBelli]

I can see that. The key difference being that he's playing in a league where a lot of those tools are more valuable than ever before.

For years a lot of teams looked for either big offensive numbers, or a nasty streak when evaluating defensemen. They became so fixated on those abilities that they often overlooked the most important one - whether the guy could actually play good defense.

In the last 5-7 years, you've seen a shift in how teams approach defensemen. The "solid, but unspectacular" two-way guys that they tended to take for granted, are now the guys that everyone is looking for. Especially the ones who can really skate.

When we look at the Rangers we see examples of guys who rose (McD, Skjei) and fell with this shift (Staal, Girardi). Granted there were other factors such as injuries. But even without injuries, the skating differences would've had both pairs of players trending in opposite directions, just maybe not quite as noticeably.

Exactly this. Staal and G were excellent fits when they were young and our defensive strategy consisted of collapsing in front of the net and blocking shots. They don't, however, fit the current one (and, even if they did, wear and tear would greatly limit their effectiveness). Oh well. One down; one left to go.

 

[Fugazy]

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