Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VI: Gorton's Way

[Lindberg Cheese]

Graves or Nieves and 2nd for AA

 

[Mikos87]

No offer sheet from me but I would offer whatever pick the offer sheet would give them.

There is no reason to be the team that gets the flack for offer sheeting.

AA would be huge for the team... that's Hagelin 2.0 and a center to boot. DET messed up their cap and they need to move a body to accommodate AA.

They need futures... a 2nd and 3rd is fair value from a offer sheet price... but I'd rather move bodies for him.

Nieves + Graves + 3rd for AA

or you can bail DET out by taking Sheahan for a conditional 5th.

I would rather have AA... but if they aren't moving him, one year of Sheahan as a filler can help the Rangers. 36 points two years ago.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Would gladly offer up a first for AA.

He has 30 goal potential.

 

[Savant]

1st for Sheahan and AA

Move Nash to recoup 1st or use winger surplus to upgrade C.

Sorted.

 

[RGY]

A 1st round pick for AA?

Just stop. The infatuation and drooling over speed has completely scrambled some people's brains.

 

[Mikos87]

I got to thinking.. let's say the Rangers can run with the following line up

Buch-Zib-Zucc: Offensive Zone Starts and matchups
Kreider-Miller-Nash: Match up line... D-Zone starts
Vesey-Hayes-Grabner: Soft Match-ups
Nieves/Gropp/Andy-DD-Fast/Puempel: Is a bit of a mess with no real role definition... this won't last.. fatigue sets in etc

However let's say they make a move around thanks giving- Holden for Brodzinki & Sheahan for pick:

Buch-Zib-Zucc:
Kreider-Miller-Nash:
Vesey-Hayes-Brodzinski
Grabner-Sheahan-Fast
DD

McD-Shatts
Skjei-Smith
Staal-ADA
Berez

That's a contender with good balance and the right distro of ice time, no pressure on kids that need some seasoning.

So you're really looking at two forward adds.. 4th line center... bottom 6 C/W...

Holden... who will have a high value... becomes your prime chip...

Then you have Nieves + Graves as viable NHL prospects with the latter being of greater value.

You put Lias back in Frolunda to get WJC experience... don't rush him after his 9 game stint... Gropp gets some minutes in a sheltered role.

You get a d-core that can run a 5 man cycle, 4 man rush... and the forward depth to contend...

So that's two forward adds... one reliable center, another c/w preferably with one of them being a RH shot... you get two RH shots then even better.

I don't think that this is far fetched.

 

[darko]

1st for Sheahan and AA

Move Nash to recoup 1st or use winger surplus to upgrade C.

Sorted.

That actually sounds tempting.

 

[Mikos87]

A 1st round pick for AA?

Just stop. The infatuation and drooling over speed has completely scrambled some people's brains.

I wouldn't trade a 1st, but I'd give up a premium with Nieves and/or Graves. That guys an absolute burner, and if you look at the value speedsters have brought the Rangers the last few year... then I can't imagine a better get for this system with the circumstances around him.

I said it during his draft year... couldn't believe he was a 4th rounder.. in one of the old draft threads here.

He's a two way center version of Max Afiniginov... breaks defenses down on the zone entry.. that's a prime value player imo. More chances off the rush... more controlled entries. Especially versus third and fourth line competition.

 

[darko]

I wouldn't trade a 1st, but I'd give up a premium with Nieves and/or Graves. That guys an absolute burner, and if you look at the value speedsters have brought the Rangers the last few year... then I can't imagine a better get for this system with the circumstances around him.

I said it during his draft year... couldn't believe he was a 4th rounder.. in one of the old draft threads here.

He's a two way center version of Max Afiniginov... breaks defenses down on the zone entry.. that's a prime value player imo. More chances off the rush... more controlled entries. Especially versus third and fourth line competition.

It's known as the Hagelin Factor.

 

[Mikos87]

1st for Sheahan and AA

Move Nash to recoup 1st or use winger surplus to upgrade C.

Sorted.

$$$ wise it doesn't work out, Rangers will need to move a contract.

I don't think AA won't be traded by DET, especially if he signs in the KHL... waivers will keep him there for a year.

Value deal would be Sheahan for a 5th + Tambo... DET gets cap relief Rangers get their 4th line center who can chip in on offense, plus lose an SPC.

With the SPC slot, they can grab a waiver claim up front... wait to see how the D unfolds.. and make a move to upgrade another forward slot.

They will self rent Nash unless the season goes haywire. I highly doubt they will let that happen over two bottom six acquisitions early.

Pavs + PK= losses... Pavs is one of the worst PK goalies there is... Rangers need an upgrade with their defensive forwards... but can't afford to sell farm pieces.

 

[Mikos87]

It's known as the Hagelin Factor.

Yes... and look at how well that works... I did call it Hagelin 2.0...

Look at Carlos' playoff mileage and win-losses since entering the league. Rangers should never have let him go.

2012: ECF, 2nd overall team
2013: 2nd Round Exit
2014: Cup Final
2015: Prez Tropy, ECF
2016: Cup
2017: Cup

It makes a huge difference.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

A 1st round pick for AA?

Just stop. The infatuation and drooling over speed has completely scrambled some people's brains.

Yes, it's just his (incredible) speed, it has nothing to do with his ridiculous hands and great shot or the 18 goals in 64 games (despite barely getting ice time).

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I liked Hagelin as much as the next guy but he had half a good season since he left the team

He was a great PKer and was quick, but the Pens can't wait to get rid of him at this point. 4 million for what he brings is way too much

I would do Graves and a second/third for Athanasiou

I feel like Graves spot on the team is slowly evaporating. And if they traded for Athanasiou, that presumably means Holden would need to go to make room

 

[bobbop]

Detroit could really use a player like Holden and he could probably fit under their cap constraints. For AA? Maybe Rangers add Pick/suspect?

 

[bobbop]

BTW Vegas has 10 defensemen on one way deals, and none of whom are waiver exempt... so the teams that are short on D will pick up one of those player... say 3 of them get claimed.

They send Theodore down, and carry 7...

Rangers won't be a team that picks one up... but there are several teams across the league that are short...

The higher the waiver order... the less likely the team picks up a player... say an injury hits to one of those teams... and 2 of the kids on D make a push...

That will result in a premium plus for Holden... so from an asset management perspective, the Rangers should not be in a rush.

What they need to do... is to trade an upside prospect/farm hand... for a reliable 4th line center... and then gauge the return for Holden.

Outside of Lias Andersson... you have Nieves & Gropp as NHL level skaters... Gropp can fill a role and do it well imo... upside is not that of a top 6 guy, but his game is tailor made for a very effective bottom 6 NHLer... if the hockey wits are there, it's a matter of when and not if.

Nieves... he has deficiencies with decision making... good speed and skating ability... but very passive... very passive player.

DD will play center and make the team... I don't see him as a 82 game player... crafty veteran.. but not one you win with imo.

There will be NHL bodies on waivers this September... Gorts smart move may be to move an SPC early in training camp.. and then go for a waiver pick up.

The team is 2-3 reliable slot fillers away from contending... and that's not bad... but just a number of what ifs.

Miller in the middle as an effective center would be the biggest impact this team could gain.

The problem with the Vegas defense is that none of the guys they want to move are offensive players. Lots of 6-7s. Holden can move the puck and chip in some offense.

 

[Raspewtin]

AA would be a great get and Detroit are morons.

Match made in heaven.

 

[RGY]

Yes, it's just his (incredible) speed, it has nothing to do with his ridiculous hands and great shot or the 18 goals in 64 games (despite barely getting ice time).

A 1st round pick is sickening overpayment. Even a 2nd is pushing it. AA has talent but you dont pay that price for a guy with not a huge track record. I'd offer a 3rd and one of our B-level defenseman like Graves who seemingly is blocked now.

 

[Gardner McKay]

A 1st round pick is sickening overpayment. Even a 2nd is pushing it. AA has talent but you dont pay that price for a guy with not a huge track record. I'd offer a 3rd and one of our B-level defenseman like Graves who seemingly is blocked now.

Totally. No way a guy who scored 18 goals is worth a 2nd round pick due to his short track record. You need him to do that for at least 2-3 more seasons before coughing up such a major piece of our organization (a piece that won't be ready for 3-4 years and only has a 33% chance of playing 100 games). Then again, if he does it for 2-3 more seasons, more posters may want to offer up a 1st.


I seriously can't believe what I am reading here anymore. We don't want to trade away a 2nd for a guy who doesn't have a long history? That is the only damn reason he would be available for a 2nd in the first place. If Holland is stupid enough to take a 2nd for AA, you take that deal and ****ing RUN.

 

[Roo Returns]

Detroit unfortunately isn't a match for Holden; they have Oullett, Dekeyser, Kronwall, Ericsson,Daley, Nick Jensen (the other one ), Sproul, not to mention Mike Green's huge contract with one year left.

Rangers have no need for Mike Green as an RHD because he'd be behind Shatty/Deangelo and even with salary retained it wouldn't work.

So it would literally have to be AA for prospects/picks. Sign him to a one year bridge deal in the 2.50-2.75 range, and deal with arb next summer.

A 2nd rounder plus is probably fair value for him at this point. Why? While he's only had one strong year, he's a reasonably cost controlled asset for four more seasons that can play all aspects of the game. In today's NHL young cost controlled assets > deadline rentals.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

How would they have done that?

Seemed like the 8+goalie would've meant they had to buy out Staal and expose McDonagh to keep Lindberg. It wasn't like they could just expose Holden to protect Lindberg.

Unless you're suggesting we had given LV a pick to choose Holden.

Not that they could have protected Lindberg, and it may have not made a difference anyway, but they didn't have to protect Holden.

They could have protected Klein instead of forcing VGK to select Lindberg/Fast (both of whom are more important to this team than Holden)

Since Fast is hurt, protecting Holden made the selection of Lindberg a certainty.

 

[egelband]

A 1st round pick for AA?

Just stop. The infatuation and drooling over speed has completely scrambled some people's brains.

I agree. There's a huge difference between skating fast and playing fast.
That said, I don't know much about this player. When I saw "AA" I thought people were talking about Anisimov

 

[RGY]

I agree. There's a huge difference between skating fast and playing fast.
That said, I don't know much about this player. When I saw "AA" I thought people were talking about Anisimov

That is because Anisimov has established himself in this league. Athanasiou has not. You dont trade 1st or 2nd round picks for a guy who has had one good season.

 

[CasusBelli]

Totally. No way a guy who scored 18 goals is worth a 2nd round pick due to his short track record. You need him to do that for at least 2-3 more seasons before coughing up such a major piece of our organization (a piece that won't be ready for 3-4 years and only has a 33% chance of playing 100 games). Then again, if he does it for 2-3 more seasons, more posters may want to offer up a 1st.


I seriously can't believe what I am reading here anymore. We don't want to trade away a 2nd for a guy who doesn't have a long history? That is the only damn reason he would be available for a 2nd in the first place. If Holland is stupid enough to take a 2nd for AA, you take that deal and ****ing RUN.

Exactly this. There's a reason he doesn't command more: risk. There is the risk that his performance won't continue; there's also the possibility that it will only get better. We really don't know -- but this case, like you, I think it's worth the chance. Trading in the NHL is just like investing in the market: it all comes down to valuation and risk analysis. It's just difficult for a "value" investor and a "momentum" investor to see things similarly.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Exactly this. There's a reason he doesn't command more: risk. There is the risk that his performance won't continue; there's also the possibility that it will only get better. We really don't know -- but this case, like you, I think it's worth the chance. Trading in the NHL is just like investing in the market: it all comes down to valuation and risk analysis. It's just difficult for a "value" investor and a "momentum" investor to see things similarly.

Yep. A 2nd rounder for a guy who scored 9 goals in 37 games in 2015-2016 and 18 goals in 64 games last year is an absolute no brainer. Especially when you consider that you are unlikely to draft someone in round 2 who will even play 100 games (which AA already has).

I'd trade a 2nd + 3rd and not think twice. The kid is 23, fits the make up of our team and can score.

The problem is that some posters want to acquire tons and tons of picks, go through 3 - 10 years of suck and then finally have a bunch of 20 year olds all hitting the NHL at the same time in order to live out some NHL 17-esque cup dynasty fantasy.

That is because Anisimov has established himself in this league. Athanasiou has not. You dont trade 1st or 2nd round picks for a guy who has had one good season.

Yes you do and I have laid out twice why you should. He scored 9 goals in 37 games the year before (roughly the same goal scoring pace as last year). Even if the kid completely drops off the face of the earth, the 2nd round pick would likely not become an NHLer either.

 

[RGY]

Yes you do and I have laid out twice why you should. He scored 9 goals in 37 games the year before (roughly the same goal scoring pace as last year). Even if the kid completely drops off the face of the earth, the 2nd round pick would likely not become an NHLer either.

Really? Because I have seen plenty of 2nd round picks become NHLers recently. Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, just to name a few. Youre right, lets trade that 2nd round pick asap...

While I believe in this year's team to compete, given the movew Gorton has been making to transition the team, I am not moving 1st or 2nd round picks.