Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part II: Anything Goes

[Fugazy]

Yeah, clearly assumed demands based on the fact that Jagr hasn't signed yet.

I wonder what he's actually asking for.

Teams can't be willing to give him more than a one-year deal, no?

 

[Irishguy42]

Teams can't be willing to give him more than a one-year deal, no?

Pretty sure I read a while back that Jagr is only interested in taking one year deals, seeing how far into his career he is.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Teams can't be willing to give him more than a one-year deal, no?

Biggest thing I've heard is he wants top 6 time on a contender...

 

[NickyFotiu]

When did this year long debate about Stepan's goal production happen? I feel like every Stepan defense is about things very few people, if any, are actually griping about.

That is how I feel as well. None of my concerns about Stepan had to do with his goal scoring or shooting percentage. I actually could not care less about shooting percentage. I actually would have preferred Stepan to play his normal game instead of trying to shoot too much. I would have been fine if he scored 15 goals and 50 points on the season playing his game. Sometime in March he let a goal slump get in to his head and started shooting everything he touched in some games instead of looking for the best play. That is not the Stepan we have seen for years. My other concern was I feel he was not in top condition which may have led to him not back checking the same on some occasions. That I think is easily correctable and since Stepan is a competitor I would not be shocked if he worked really hard on his conditioning this offseason.

 

[silverfish]

That is how I feel as well. None of my concerns about Stepan had to do with his goal scoring or shooting percentage. I actually could not care less about shooting percentage. I actually would have preferred Stepan to play his normal game instead of trying to shoot everything in sight. I would have been fine if he scored 15 goals and 50 points on the season playing his game. Sometime around Feb he let a goal slump get in to his head and started shooting everything he touched instead of looking for the bast play. That is not the Stepan we have seen for years. My other concern was I feel he was not in top condition which may have led to him not back checking the same on some occasions. That I think is easily correctable and since Stepan is a competitor I would not be shocked if he worked really hard on his conditioning this offseason.

You always bring this up. I want proof. I want the video.

 

[TheTakedown]

Maybe. I disagree, but, I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again.

The question boils down to whether or not you think Stepan is one of the league's top-31 centers. I do. Some people don't. If you don't, you like the trade. If you do, you don't like the trade.

Again, I think stepan is a top 6 center, and yes his actual position on the rangers for his entire career thus far puts him in a place where he is, by definition, a 1C... Whether or not he's going to perform like an elite 1c, the answer is right there--no, he's not.

All in all, top 6 center? Yes. for years to come? No, probably not. Is he a detriment? No. Are the rangers going to win with him? They haven't thus far (and yes there are other factors here, I'm not just saying stepan was there and they never won therefore stepan can't win), and I don't see Stepan in a place to take on that role where he can "1C" this team into a cup

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think that failing to back check would be more of an effort thing than a conditioning thing, assuming that this actually happened.

 

[One Winged Angel]

My point is, let's not judge a hockey player by how they might look.

Boyle had room for growth with his skating, Stepan has gotten everything he can out of what he has.

Dude has had a skating coach since he was 14. He isn't a bad skater at all in the technical sense, hes just slow and trust me, the lack of foot speed is not from a lack of effort.

I don't know why people have brought up the conditioning aspect. Are you guys tracking his blood oxygen levels after every shift?

Also Kessel isn't fat, he has a fat face.

All I'm saying is that maybe if he paid more attention to it, he could reach that next level.

The great players usually do and that's difference between them and the rest of the pack, that desire to improve off the ice.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You always bring this up. I want proof. I want the video.

I do not have video so you can call me a liar if you like but why would I have lied about this all these months when I like Stepan? I can tell you one occasion in the playoffs that really stood out to me had Stepan chasing a puck carrier within 20 feet of the side boards on the team benches side of the ice. It was near the center ice line. The forward carrying the puck had him by around 3-5 feet. Stepan raised his stick around waist high and pointed for another Ranger to pick him up then stopped going after him. It looked to me like Step saying I know I'm not going to be able to catch him so somebody else better pick him up. I have seen people do that when out of breath. I have done it at times as well. In that case I'm pretty sure Step was right about not catching him but in the past he would have kept skating. The reason that stood out to me was that was a Hayes type of backcheck effort. That is not how Step has backchecked in his career..

 

[Fugazy]

Biggest thing I've heard is he wants top 6 time on a contender...

I think Dallas makes sense as a landing spot for him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

All I'm saying is that maybe if he paid more attention to it, he could reach that next level.

The great players usually do and that's difference between them and the rest of the pack, that desire to improve off the ice.

Yeah but you're assuming that he doesn't already put in all the work that he can.

I can tell you that Stepan is bottom of the barrel in comparison to his peers in sheer athleticism or shall we say "physical gifts." I'd say that is limiting him more than a lack of conditioning or power skating.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I think that failing to back check would be more of an effort thing than a conditioning thing, assuming that this actually happened.

Part of it is conditioning, whether you agree or not.

That extra mile you take at the gym can help be the difference between being completely gassed and not being able to get back to make the play or getting back and making the play.

 

[silverfish]

I do not have video so you can call me a liar if you like but why would I have lied about this all these months when I like Stepan? I can tell you one occasion in the playoffs that really stood out to me had Stepan chasing a puck carrier within 20 feet of the side boards on the team benches side of the ice. It was near the center ice line. The forward carrying the puck had him by around 3-5 feet. Stepan raised his stick around waist high and pointed for another Ranger to pick him up then stopped going after him. It looked to me like Step saying I know I'm not going to be able to catch him so somebody else better pick him up. I have seen people do that when out of breath. I have done it at times as well. In that case I'm pretty sure Step was right about not catching him but in the past he would have kept skating. The reason that stood out to me was that was a Hayes type of backcheck effort. That is not how Step has backchecked in his career..

Not saying you're lying, but I want to see it. My hunch is that Stepan was calling out a rotation, and not being like: "I can't get him". I want to see video of these instances because I feel like the situation is more a system rotation, than Stepan not being able to keep up anymore.

Rotations/switches like that happen all the time, especially in a man-to-man system.

 

[Trxjw]

Not a Stepan conversation, per se, but more a shooting % conversation, and how we perceive value on players with high sh% vs low sh%. Stepan is just a good example of perception after a low shooting % year. Perhaps the gripes about Stepan have nothing to do with goals, but, if he shoots to his career %, he's a 60 point player, and maybe more people think he's that "1C".

Reilly Smith is another example.

TJ Oshie is a good example of the opposite (high sh% perception).

Eh, I see what you're saying but I'd be more inclined to say it was an anomaly. He's pretty well established in terms of what he brings to the table. If he had hit that mark this season, I think you'd just see people saying that he isn't likely to repeat it and he'll only continue to lose foot speed as he gets older.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2017/7/10/15945634/harvard-graduate-alex-kerfoot-could-fill-rangers-void-at-center

Kerfoot isn't signing here just because him and Vesey were teammates. He'd have a better chance at an NHL role in NJ and apparently is all but assumed going to the Canucks, he's from Vancouver. I believe Dreger reported it's believed that is where Kerfoot is going.

Makes sense, he can go home and have an NHL role basically immediately.

Vesey and Hayes were different. They're American kids, from Boston, so playing in NY is only a 4 hour drive from where they're from.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Part of it is conditioning, whether you agree or not.

That extra mile you take at the gym can help be the difference between being completely gassed and not being able to get back to make the play or getting back and making the play.

Is it? Because I've seen incredibly well conditioned athletes dog it on the regular, this is assuming that the OP was even correct in what he saw.

I don't agree with it at all because there was nothing in his game that would suggest that he was suffering there. Most, if not all of it, was in his head.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Is it? Because I've seen incredibly well conditioned athletes dog it on the regular, this is assuming that the OP was even correct in what he saw.

I don't agree with it at all because there was nothing in his game that would suggest that he was suffering there. Most, if not all of it, was in his head.

You don't have to agree with it, but when I start seeing a player like Stepan out of position and not getting back on plays, if he was in fact in shape then that's an even bigger problem.

Not my problem anymore though.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Not saying you're lying, but I want to see it. My hunch is that Stepan was calling out a rotation, and not being like: "I can't get him". I want to see video of these instances because I feel like the situation is more a system rotation, than Stepan not being able to keep up anymore.

Rotations/switches like that happen all the time, especially in a man-to-man system.

I wish I knew where to find a clip. It was obvious to me that Step at that point was just recognizing his limitations. Now when I say limitations it could be something as simple as a guy is too worn out at the end of his shift or it could have been Step just knowing the other guy was faster. Neither of which is a horrible thing. I think people think I'm insulting Stepan when at the time it happened I was actually defending Stepan. People were saying how slow he was. I saw a guy that realized he was not going to physically be able to make a play. In the past Stepan always kept going even if somebody else had to pick the guy up. I have had times like that as well. We are all human. Sometimes players who do not feel at their top start trying to "play smart" instead of keeping our legs moving. Knowing how Stepan is a competitor I do expect him to work hard to be in great shape for this upcoming season

 

[One Winged Angel]

Teams can't be willing to give him more than a one-year deal, no?

Honestly Chief, I don't even know.

Jagr was able to pull multi-year deals in the past, maybe not now. Maybe it's not about term, maybe it's about the yearly amount. Maybe he's trying to get teams that he wants to play for involved and no one is biting.

This is a weird market for Jagr, this year. His age obviously doesn't help his cause and I have a feeling he bet against himself not thinking that Florida was looking to move on from him.

 

[RangerBoy]

Here's the thing... Stepan, at age 27, has never reached 60 points... Every year he's had an excuse. 1st it was "he's a rookie/sophomore" then it was "he's holding out he deserves more money" then it was "he broke his leg"... Now it's "he's 27"....

What's happening is that the excuses, in themselves individually, aren't all that terrible, but there's been a reason every year that's stopped stepan from reaching 60 points. Stepan is very much a toews-lite player, and I believe that he's got maybe 1 more good year left in him before he plataeu's, then starts a steady decline.

Like rangerboy is always saying -- trade a player a year early rather than a year late. In a weak draft, stepan + a backup goalie brought back a 7th overall pick + a top rated offensive defenseman prospect. What happens when, in a year from now, stepan has another 50-55 pt year, is now 28 years old, with an active No Trade Clause, in a draft that is much stronger.... I'll bet that at that point stepan brings back maybe an established middle pair defenseman and a 3rd/4th round pick.

Is it worth the difference in returns? For one more year or Stepan? (Granted I know my trade values are hypotheticals)....

I think not. They made the right choice moving stepan

Branch Rickey quote. Lias Andersson was ranked #13 by McKenzie. Jeff Marek had him at #11. If you look all of McKenzie's draft rankings during the season,Andersson was always in the top 15. They base their rankings from talking to NHL scouts and executives. 2nd line center who can do everything well. 20-25 goals. 50-55 points. Andersson can shoot the puck too. Alexander Steen type of player. If Andersson can win one defensive zone face off,he is already an upgrade over Stepan in that area.

 

[silverfish]

Branch Rickey quote. Lias Andersson was ranked #13 by McKenzie. Jeff Marek had him at #11. If you look all of McKenzie's draft rankings during the season,Andersson was always in the top 15. They base their rankings from talking to NHL scouts and executives. 2nd line center who can do everything well. 20-25 goals. 50-55 points. Andersson can shoot the puck too. Alexander Steen type of player. If Andersson can win one defensive zone face off,he is already an upgrade over Stepan in that area.

Derek Stepan won 49.3% of his d-zone draws last year. 46th in the league. Tavares was worse. So was Malkin. Jumbo. Monahan. Backstrom. Crosby. Barkov. Jarnkrok. E. Staal. Matthews. Scheifele. McDavid. RNH. Eichel. Galchenyuk.

Conversely, Brandon Pirri won 61.5% of his d-zone draws last year, but I don't see you clamoring to bring Pirri back.

http://puckbase.com/stats/faceoff-percentage?team=all&zone=def

 

[SA16]

The problem with Andersson is he was one of the oldest first time eligible players this year so he's going to hit 30 sooner than other players we could have drafted

 

[SA16]

Derek Stepan won 49.3% of his d-zone draws last year. 46th in the league. Tavares was worse. So was Malkin. Jumbo. Monahan. Backstrom. Crosby. Barkov. Jarnkrok. E. Staal. Matthews. Scheifele. McDavid. RNH. Eichel. Galchenyuk.

Conversely, Brandon Pirri won 61.5% of his d-zone draws last year, but I don't see you clamoring to bring Pirri back.

http://puckbase.com/stats/faceoff-percentage?team=all&zone=def

Yea but I remember one specific instance where he lost one late in the game which led to a goal so he's bad

 

[silverfish]

Yea but I remember one specific instance where he lost one late in the game which led to a goal so he's bad

Forever amazed how much weight is placed on to FO% by the people who ignore shot attempt metrics like the plague.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

The problem with Andersson is he was one of the oldest first time eligible players this year so he's going to hit 30 sooner than other players we could have drafted

Good point we should trade him now before we have to pay him...