GDT: Roil Rumble!: Your New Jersey Devils vs. Edmonton Oilers, 7 PM, MSG+

[haak84]

Since we can recall Marty from a few years ago, I figured it would at least trigger in the minds.

The guy across the river has been looking like this for over 130 games and almost 2 calendar years now, and if you turn on one of their games, you can see a couple poor goals or usually one going in on him every game also.

I don't know if Cory is really declining, it's still too early to say he is. It's not too early to worry, but it's too early to completely write him off. We'll have to wait to the end of this month or even the end of December, to get a better idea. We're still so early into the season, that one or two really good or really bad games, can send those numbers in the other direction quite significantly.

His numbers this year in 11 games, are NOT bad. They're really not, it's the eye test that's really looking bad. And sometimes when that happens, you'll see a game where he didn't play all that bad on the eyes, where he'll get lit up and that might put a dent in that number. I'm actually surprised at how he has a pretty solid save percentage on the season, but the eye test is telling me something different. Now last year, the eye test and poor number were telling me the same thing.

I don't see a reason why he would be declining. Even the goalies that declined at his age in recent years, weren't as good as him before their decline. I'm talking Cam Ward and Kari Lehtonen particularly. Howard had 3 poor seasons, then had a good one last year, looks to be off to a solid start again. Rinne has been back and forth since he turned 30. Has yet to have two good seasons in a row since, but is on pace for a consecutive strong season this year.

Ward was never that good. He's had one season that was as good as any season that Cory had up until last year. Lehtonen was a highly touted prospect and taken 2nd overall, he was a pretty solid goalie until 2014, even if he never lived up to the hype. He wasn't as good as Cory was. So I don't know.

Still too early to say, but the types of goals going in are kind of scary.

I was just reading through your out of town scoreboard posts and I respect your goaltending opinion. I'm not sure it's Cory declining as it is Cory sustaining. I don't necessarily think he ever established himself as elite. NJD fans have a certain expectation from the goaltending position in which Cory inherited. I question the overall style in which he plays and the results it produces. From the stat sheet his save % is not bad but from the eye test and a competitive standpoint- it's been lacking. I think his style which is suited for High Danger saves (much like Lundqvist) will yield certain results. Having said that, I think Cory is more than capable to win a Cup on a talented team. I wonder if he can handle the pressure of carrying the team. It's a lot to ask for any position player, much less a goaltender.

 

[Bleedred]

If Noesen scores the easy tap in the 1st, the Devils more than likely win in regulation

I like Noesen, but some of the power play usages were really uhhh questionable?

For what it's worth Zacha was very good on the power play last year. He should probably be in and on it.

 

[haak84]

I think the Devils struck gold with Nico and I can't even fathom Bratt. Both gotta shoot more tho.

 

[Bleedred]

I was just reading through your out of town scoreboard posts and I respect your goaltending opinion. I'm not sure it's Cory declining as it is Cory sustaining. I don't necessarily think he ever established himself as elite. NJD fans have a certain expectation from the goaltending position in which Cory inherited. I question the overall style in which he plays and the results it produces. From the stat sheet his save % is not bad but from the eye test and a competitive standpoint- it's been lacking. I think his style which is suited for High Danger saves (much like Lundqvist) will yield certain results. Having said that, I think Cory is more than capable to win a Cup on a talented team. I wonder if he can handle the pressure of carrying the team. It's a lot to ask for any position player, much less a goaltender.

Thanks for that, I appreciate it!

The style Cory plays though, is pretty much the only style that's effective in today's game. Quick is the only unorthodox goalie in the league that's solid. The other guys, like Pavelec, just not good enough for today's game. Pavelec probably would have been a good goalie in the 90's and earlier, but not today.

I think Cory was a top 5 goalie, up until last season. I'd still say he should be in the top 10 as of right now, I don't think one bad season should get you out of it. And with how bad Price has been this season, even if he's a .930-.940 guy for the remainder of the season, he might not even make it to above league average by the end of the season. I think you should be afforded one bad season. Rinne still gets called elite, yet he's still going for his second good season in a row, since 2012. I don't consider him elite anymore. I'd say he's an inconsistent goaltender, as the numbers greatly fluctuate from year to year, over the past 5. The only thing Cory doesn't have to say he was top 5, doesn't have the wins, doesn't have the playoff appearances, but I think that's much more on the team back in 2013-2016. Last year, every facet of the team was terrible, goaltending included. It was no exception. The previous couple years, every facet of the team was terrible, besides goaltending. It was the exception then. I think he did carry the team his first few years here, but I guess we can't say he carried the team, since we finished out of the playoffs every year. It was in no part due to him though. Last year, he was as bad as the team was and as bad as the team had been for several years before that.

He posted great numbers here in 14-15, behind a BAD, BAD, BAD defense. I've already rattled off the names of the personnel. He was great in 15-16, behind a team that could suppress shots better than they can now, but struggled some nights to get 20 shots on goal, when the defense was actually playing good.

But up until last year, these types of goals weren't going in as frequently. He did have a poor start to the 14-15 season, he definitely had an October with a lot of these stinkers going in and even a couple by November, but he was red hot and made up for it from December, onward.

 

[glenwo2]

I think the Devils struck gold with Nico and I can't even fathom Bratt. Both gotta shoot more tho.

I think it's more a case of the Devils winning the lottery with Nico and striking Gold with Bratt.

 

[Bleedred]

I think the Devils struck gold with Nico and I can't even fathom Bratt. Both gotta shoot more tho.

The only critique I can think of with Nico right now is that his shot/goal scoring ability has been underwhelming, but overall, he's having a pretty good season. The assists are certainly making up for the lack of goals scored. I'm a little bummed that he has scored 2 goals, within a couple minutes of each other, in the same game. Other than that, can't complain.

 

[haak84]

The only critique I can think of with Nico right now is that his shot/goal scoring ability has been underwhelming, but overall, he's having a pretty good season. The assists are certainly making up for the lack of goals scored. I'm a little bummed that he has scored 2 goals, within a couple minutes of each other, in the same game. Other than that, can't complain.

He's been robbed at least 3 teams that I can think of. I also feel like it will happen again at least 5 more times for some reason. I am not worried about him in the least bit because of his intelligence. His work ethic and growth will improve his overall rate statistics over time. Rare to see an 18 year old look so comfortable.

 

[Bleedred]

He's been robbed at least 3 teams that I can think of. I also feel like it will happen again at least 5 more times for some reason. I am not worried about him in the least bit because of his intelligence. His work ethic and growth will improve his overall rate statistics over time. Rare to see an 18 year old look so comfortable.

It's clear to see he's the best forward prospect we've had since Parise, which is now almost 15 years ago since he was drafted.

I don't want to jinx anything and it's still early and he's come out of nowhere, but Bratt might actually be the second best forward prospect we've had since Parise. We really needed a break with how many duds and misses we had on forwards between 2005-2014. JQ is still TBD, Zacha has shown some flashes, but both these guys have really been great. Henrique is the only definite NHL caliber forward we drafted between Parise and Zacha.

I think Quenneville will be, but can't be determined yet.

 

[Bleedred]

Out of 38 goalies that have played at least 40 games since last season, Schneider is 28th in save % and 33rd in GAA.

Yikes. I'm not even gonna like this post. That's pretty bad, but the saving grace is that the numbers are actually in his favor right now. But like I said, we're still early enough in the season that one or two blowouts could implode these numbers to below league average. Conversely one or two high shot/low goals against games can raise it up well into the 920's, that he performed at for the better part of his career.

I don't hold the GAA against him. That's a number that's more on the teams play and reflects on the very generous number of shots that we allow on some nights. Even the Cory of 2015-2016, would have probably a below league average GAA, even with a .925 save percentage, with the number of shots we allow.

Bad goals and eye test aside, his GAA is way too high for a goalie that has a solid (as of right now) save percentage on the season. And that is something that is more attributable to the poor team defense and number of shots that we allow. If Cory had a .930 save percentage right now, his GAA would still be way too high, and that's where you point the finger at the team. We allow too many shots.

We allowed 32 tonight, but I thought we were the better team and we outshot them, which has been a rare occurrence this season. Shots were 30-25 after regulation, ended 34-32 in OT. It seemed like every Edmonton OT shot was in the final 90 seconds before the goal. They might have had one at the beginning of OT in one of the earlier shifts.

 

[Bleedred]

And I'm really gonna be furious with Hynes, if we have a stupid lineup change on defense next game, because we allowed 3 goals and lost. I've really absolved Hynes of any blame in this game, but he better not swap Mueller or somebody out for Prout because the Panthers are dumb enough to feel the need that they have to actually play Michael Haley in games, and we need some kind of pseudo-enforcer to keep him honest.

The only logical lineup change would maybe be Kinkaid in goal, but I don't even think I want that right now. He didn't inspire a ton of confidence the last two games he played.

 

[David Conte]

I think it's safe to say that no matter your stance of reasoning, be it a horrendous power play or embarrassing goal(s) let up by Schneider, just about everyone can agree that this was an entirely winnable game where defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory. Walking out of the building tonight with a loss was beyond disappointing.

 

[VoidCreature]

I think it's safe to say that no matter your stance of reasoning, be it a horrendous power play or embarrassing goal(s) let up by Schneider, just about everyone can agree that this was an entirely winnable game where defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory. Walking out of the building tonight with a loss was beyond disappointing.

Thought you'd be used to walking out of buildings with nothing there, David.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

We had two 4th lines iced tonight.

Wood-Boyle-Hayes
Gibbons-Coleman-Noesen

This team is going to be so much better when Zajac and Mojo is back. Along with Zacha out of the doghouse.

 

[Bleedred]

I think it's safe to say that no matter your stance of reasoning, be it a horrendous power play or embarrassing goal(s) let up by Schneider, just about everyone can agree that this was an entirely winnable game where defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory. Walking out of the building tonight with a loss was beyond disappointing.

Agreed. These are gonna be another 3 points flushed, if we fall out of a playoff spot eventually, and Edmonton misses the playoffs this year. 3 points coughed up them. I think they were underachieving so far, but they're still a decent team, with a mediocre head coach and a mediocre defense.

WE BETTER NOT LOSE to Florida though! I don't care what the excuse is. I don't care if it's Luongo, piece of shit James Reimer. I don't even care if they bring 2004 Luongo with them, through some kind of time travel and he plays the game of his life out of spite for losing out on the Vezina to Marty that year. This is a team we should beat, no questions asked. They might be on a little 5 or 6 game winless streak themselves, by the time they march into here on Saturday night. And I didn't even realize we had Chicago the night after them.

So obviously Cory and Keith will split those. We'll get the worst and the best of the league on back to back nights in that. We haven't seen many teams worse than Florida. Maybe two at most, and I could make a good case that they’re a worse team than Arizona and Buffalo. And Tampa is the only team we've seen that's probably better than Chicago this year. I’ll have a conniption if we lose to Florida. OT or regulation, inexcusable, unless half the players can’t attend, and we’re forced to pick fans out of the crowd to lace them up for us.

Thought you'd be used to walking out of buildings with nothing there, David.

Ba dum tss!

Haha nice!

 

[theoptimist]

Bleed

 

[Bleedred]

I was just looking at some stats, I wouldn't say they're exactly advanced stats, because they're accounting for shooting percentage and save percentage, but out of all the bottom feeders right now, Florida has the highest PDO right now. A PDO of 99.3 right now. They're goaltending is terrible, but their shooting percentage is above league average by a half a percent. So I looked up most of the bottom feeders so far, and everyone else's PDO is really in the toilet right now, while Florida's ain't too much below the league's average.

Buffalo's got a PDO of 97.2
Arizona has a PDO of 96.5
Montreal has a PDO of 96.4
Edmonton has a PDO of 97.0

These are not up to the minute, these are all before last night's games, and a few of these teams have played. The league average for PDO is 100. The Pens, Capitals and Rangers in recent years, seem to be able to somehow keep sustaining these PDO's of a bit over 100. It's to be expected with the Pens and Caps, with their high percentage shooters. With the decline in goaltending for the Rangers, I expect them to not have an outrageous PDO this season, unless they shoot much higher to compensate for the goaltending drop off.

That says to me that out of all these teams, Florida is being bad without the most misfortune. The other teams have been a little ''Unluckier'' than them.

Our PDO was one of the highest in the league at 102.1, but I believe Tampa, St Louis and LA are all higher or right around the same. It's to be expected for teams with the best record's to have a high PDO and teams with the worst record's to have a low PDO, after just a month into the season. Ours might have come down a little with the decrease in shooting percentage tonight.

 

[Maine Fan]

Everyone has an opinion after watching a game. It seems to me that only one person is defending Cory in this game. That should tell you something so why continue to beat up on Cory?

 

[Bleedred]

Everyone has an opinion after watching a game. It seems to me that only one person is defending Cory in this game. That should tell you something so why continue to beat up on Cory?

I don't think I've beaten up on him, as much as I've just been breaking down what may be wrong with him, and throwing out some stats about his inadequate level of play over the last 71 games and most specifically (almost) 60 games.

I was probably really heated with him in the 3rd period and a bit after the game though. He's really been super frustrating this year, despite actually having a quite a bit above league average puck stopping ability this year.

Kinkaid's last couple of games haven't been too awe-inspiring either. And that shootout looked like it was something out of the 13-14 season, when Marty and Cory would get beat on the same play twice in the same shootout. Kinkaid has only played 4 or 5 games this year, so I can't hold his play against him just yet. If he has those same numbers after 5 more games, that isn't good.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Cory is what he is. He’s a good goalie who had a Vezina year a couple of seasons ago. He will make the great save and let in the deflating soft one at the worse time. In my opinion he isn’t a money goaltender. Another words, he’s not going to win you a big game.

 

[Bleedred]

Cory is what he is. He’s a good goalie who had a Vezina year a couple of seasons ago. He will make the great save and let in the deflating soft one at the worse time. In my opinion he isn’t a money goaltender. Another words, he’s not going to win you a big game.

It’s hard to say if he’s a money goalie or not, as we’ve never been able to play a money game with him. Which was of really no fault of his own, with the exception of maybe last year. And even then, the offense was beyond pathetic.

He played really well in 3 games against the Kings in the 2012 playoffs. He only allowed 4 goals in 3 games and one was in OT. And his team still lost that series, in spite of his awesome goaltending. He even lost one of those games, while only allowing one goal. He had a brutal game against the Sharks in the 2013 playoffs, then came back and played a better than decent game, allowing 4 goals on almost 50 shots and in OT. His other playoff games were mostly in relief in 2011. I think he had one start in the first round and had to leave the game.

Teams have won the cup a few times this past decade with mediocre goaltending. Fleury in 09, Niemi in 10, Quick in 14. Then there’s been Quick in 12 and Thomas in 11, who stood on their heads. Crawford was pretty good in 2013, and 15 Crawford, 16 Murray, and the 17 combo of Fleury/Murray were all solid, but didn’t really stand on their heads.

 

[MadDevil]

Cory hasn't played on a good team in like 4 years, so I think it's premature to say he's not going to win you a big game. I also think the "big game goalie" thing is overblown. Quick is still living off the reputation of being a "big game goalie" from 6 years ago, while he's been just a good goalie pretty much every other year of his career. Really, is there such a thing as a "big game goalie" these days? What has Carey Price done in the playoffs lately? Or Braden Holtby? Or King Nothing? Or Bobrovsky? Hell, Corey Crawford must be the best "big game goalie" since he's won multiple Cups. If you're expecting Cory to be Marty or Dominik Hasek, he's not.

Yeah, it sucks he gave up a softy. But we had most of the third period + OT to bail him out and score a 3rd goal, but we didn't. The PP laid an egg, we hit several posts, and we need to file a missing persons report for Henrique and his stupid mustache.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Cory is what he is. He’s a good goalie who had a Vezina year a couple of seasons ago. He will make the great save and let in the deflating soft one at the worse time. In my opinion he isn’t a money goaltender. Another words, he’s not going to win you a big game.

he won us the game last week in Vancouver that we had no business in winning when we gave up like 45 shots

He absolutely should have stopped that 2nd Edmonton goal, but he also made a bunch of other ridiculous saves that kept the Oilers off the board. People take the amount of tough saves he makes (mainly due to our defense) for granted.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

By the way, I've just about seen enough of Jimmy Hayes.

 

[Burner Account]

This team definitely overachieved out of the gate. They were always going to fall back down to earth a bit.

 

[NJDevs26]

Cory hasn't played on a good team in like 4 years, so I think it's premature to say he's not going to win you a big game. I also think the "big game goalie" thing is overblown. Quick is still living off the reputation of being a "big game goalie" from 6 years ago, while he's been just a good goalie pretty much every other year of his career. Really, is there such a thing as a "big game goalie" these days? What has Carey Price done in the playoffs lately? Or Braden Holtby? Or King Nothing? Or Bobrovsky? Hell, Corey Crawford must be the best "big game goalie" since he's won multiple Cups. If you're expecting Cory to be Marty or Dominik Hasek, he's not.

Yeah, it sucks he gave up a softy. But we had most of the third period + OT to bail him out and score a 3rd goal, but we didn't. The PP laid an egg, we hit several posts, and we need to file a missing persons report for Henrique and his stupid mustache.

In a way it's not fair to judge his clutchness because of what you said, he's been in very few (if any) actual big games. The closest he's come to it was his first year, but he stunk it up after the Olympic break and they went back to merry-go-rounding him and Marty. The only thing you really have to go on is all the blown late leads and soft goals at game-changing moments he's allowed. And maybe that's unfair too cause the team's been mostly bad so they're going to lose games and blow leads but still, it just seems like he gives up too many of these late, momentum-changing goals for a supposed top goalie. Plus his first couple years here the team had one mediocre and one bad season and he was good for the most part. But now his overall play is suffering.

Your second point is even more valid, there's not really too many big game goalies to begin with aside from Crawford and even he's had some clunker playoff series. Even during his most recent Cup he got benched for Scott Darling against Nashville. Lundqvist for the **** he gets was a big-game goalie when he was actually in the top tier of goalies, he just wasn't on a team good enough to win four rounds, especially given their penchant for extending every series to the max. Murray's been dynamite in 32 postseason games but he's also been on a great team.