Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

[theaub]

20K is still pretty high - only trails Los Angeles, New York and Seattle (maybe San Francisco - basic internet searching is inconclusive).

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[phillipmike]

Would you be able to get both those guys for a package of prospects that doesn't include Vlad\Bichette\Alford\Pearson\Jansen?

I would attempt maybe a Kinsler on 1 year deal, if he would sign one.

Kinsler has 1 more year left at 11M. It would require a trade to get him and every trade that has been proposed to him to waive his no trade clause as her resulted in him asking for an extension which has quashed the trade.

I like Kinsler on a 1 year deal and i would target him heavily but with the need of an extension and blocking a previous trade to the Jays i doubt it works out.

 

[masarume]

DO we have a big Japanese community? I know the Chinese community is yuge.

We have enough that there a few Japanese restaurants run by actual Japanese people vs the thousands out there run by Chinese and Koreans.
There's a small Japanese community at 404 and Steeles in the North East corner.
Downtown is pretty sparse.

This winter? Sure. Warmoth + Greene\SRF + Hernandez (base) gets it done, IMO. That's IF they're hitting the rebuild button.

I would definitely be down for this deal. Not sure if the Pirate will. Harrison would be perfect in the UTIL role for us.

 

[masarume]

I like Kinsler on a 1 year deal and i would target him heavily but with the need of an extension and blocking a previous trade to the Jays i doubt it works out.

If we do sign Kinsler... what does that mean. We are trying to get to the playoffs again?

I just dont want us to half effort this. Either we are contending or we're not. Why repeat last year again?

 

[Garlando]

This winter? Sure. Warmoth + Greene\SRF + Hernandez (base) gets it done, IMO. That's IF they're hitting the rebuild button.

I agree that Starling Marte would be a good target this offseason, that is if Pittsburgh is willing to move on from him after the PED suspension last year along with a decline in his power numbers. Marte is a guy who has provided between 3.4 and 4.8 WAR in every full season he has played, contributing in all facets of the game, at the plate, on the bases, and in the field. Steamer projections which are notoriously conservative, project a .285/.340/.440 line with 16 HRs and 30 SBs, good for a 105 wRC+ and 2.5 WAR for 2018. His contract is also a huge bargain, especially if he returns close to his 2013-2016 levels of production. He has 2 years remaining on his deal, worth $7.5 Million for 2018 and $10 Million in 2019. Plus there are two club options for 2020 and 2021 worth $11.5 Million and $12.5 Million respectively.

Now while I agree that Marte could potentially be had without giving up the very top prospects in the Jays system like Vlad and Bo, I don't think that a guy like Logan Warmoth would be very enticing for the Pirates. The Bucs have 2 recent 1st rounders that they are high on that project to play SS/2B in Cole Tucker and Kevin Newman. They also have Kevin Kramer who was a 2nd Rounder in 2015 that had a breakout in AA this past year. Adding Warmoth would be redundant for them IMO.

 

[BlueForever75]

The Jays fully plan to enter this coming season as a contender. Come July pending on where they sit and how their season is going, they may change course. But the message has always been from management that they intend to extend the contending window.

If not players like Happ and Estrada would have been dealt last trade deadline. The window of opportunity extends over the next 9 months. After that it is anyone's guess.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I agree that Starling Marte would be a good target this offseason, that is if Pittsburgh is willing to move on from him after the PED suspension last year along with a decline in his power numbers. Marte is a guy who has provided between 3.4 and 4.8 WAR in every full season he has played, contributing in all facets of the game, at the plate, on the bases, and in the field. Steamer projections which are notoriously conservative, project a .285/.340/.440 line with 16 HRs and 30 SBs, good for a 105 wRC+ and 2.5 WAR for 2018. His contract is also a huge bargain, especially if he returns close to his 2013-2016 levels of production. He has 2 years remaining on his deal, worth $7.5 Million for 2018 and $10 Million in 2019. Plus there are two club options for 2020 and 2021 worth $11.5 Million and $12.5 Million respectively.

Now while I agree that Marte could potentially be had without giving up the very top prospects in the Jays system like Vlad and Bo, I don't think that a guy like Logan Warmoth would be very enticing for the Pirates. The Bucs have 2 recent 1st rounders that they are high on that project to play SS/2B in Cole Tucker and Kevin Newman. They also have Kevin Kramer who was a 2nd Rounder in 2015 that had a breakout in AA this past year. Adding Warmoth would be redundant for them IMO.

You can never have too many shortstops, IMO. Aside from the bust factor of prospects, most blue chip SS can be passable at 2B\CF\LF\RF (and 3B if they have the arm). If they're rebuilding (which they would be under the hypothetical) its simply about adding quality.

 

[phillipmike]

If we do sign Kinsler... what does that mean.

It would be a trade as he is Tigers property.

We are trying to get to the playoffs again?

I just dont want us to half effort this. Either we are contending or we're not. Why repeat last year again?

It think it is very clear that the current Jays FO said they are going for the playoffs. Im sure no one in the Jays FO was hoping for or expecting how the team performed in 2017. Depending who you ask but you saw last year as half effort where i saw it as the same effort as 2016. Essentially the same team from 2016 and 2017. Going into 2016, the 2016 had a better lineup with Edwin/Saunders/Colabello and ended with better numbers vs Morales/Pearce/Smoak, but the 2017 rotation was better that what we went in with in 2016 but didnt perform due to injuries. The 2016 bullpen going into the season was much better on paper than the 2017 pen but the opposite happened. The difference from 2017 to 2016 was injuries. 2016 Jays were very healthy and the 2017 was not. In my opinion the effort was the same as they were after upgrades (would argue the Jays table good offers for Edwin and finished 2nd for Fowler, also rumored to have put an offer for Cutch) but the results were very different mostly due to injuries but also decline.

Regardless of what you and i want it has no impact what is going to happen. The Jays are going to add to this team to try to contend in 2018.

 

[Anthrax442]

I was more negative earlier, but now i am more on board with retooling. But the jays need a lead off guy and another good power bat in the OF and some more depth in the infield and it's possible for them to make some noise.

 

[Anthrax442]

Is it a fair assessment to suggest that the fO will not sacrifice the future for a short term fix and will continue working on building the future.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Seattle Mariners appear to be gearing up for the Shohei Ohtani sweepstakes.

In their second trade in 48 hours, the team sent Brazilian prospect Thyago Vieira to the Chicago White Sox for international signing bonus pool money.

MLB Pipeline had Vieira as the No. 8 prospect in the Mariners' system.

 

[masarume]

It think it is very clear that the current Jays FO said they are going for the playoffs. Im sure no one in the Jays FO was hoping for or expecting how the team performed in 2017. Depending who you ask but you saw last year as half effort where i saw it as the same effort as 2016. Essentially the same team from 2016 and 2017. Going into 2016, the 2016 had a better lineup with Edwin/Saunders/Colabello and ended with better numbers vs Morales/Pearce/Smoak, but the 2017 rotation was better that what we went in with in 2016 but didnt perform due to injuries. The 2016 bullpen going into the season was much better on paper than the 2017 pen but the opposite happened. The difference from 2017 to 2016 was injuries. 2016 Jays were very healthy and the 2017 was not. In my opinion the effort was the same as they were after upgrades (would argue the Jays table good offers for Edwin and finished 2nd for Fowler, also rumored to have put an offer for Cutch) but the results were very different mostly due to injuries but also decline.

Thanks for the reply.

The equation to me didn't make sense in 2017. Most of the people in these forums knew 2016 health was an irregularity.
Yet we brought back an closely identical roster with less hitting. Most of our stars are past the stages of development and would've likely only regressed due to age.
To me that isn't trying very hard.

To your point that the effort in the 2015 offseason was the same, I would agree to you to an extent. Happ was a good find but to expect guys like Pearce and Morales to outperform their career averages at their ages were ambitious. I thought the team made a similar effort both off-seasons but I would've liked to have seen more commitment to either win now or trade our aging players (Estrada/Happ) for prospects.

Granted, I don't know exactly what moves they could've done given my limited baseball knowledge, but I feel like our championship window was somewhat wasted.

 

[zeke]

Current brass never cared about this core. The only thing they are worried about is the future core 5+ years from now.

Anything they say about the current team is lip service, anything they do is just lipstick.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Current brass never cared about this core. The only thing they are worried about is the future core 5+ years from now.

Anything they say about the current team is lip service, anything they do is just lipstick.

I think they care a lot about the 2019/2020 core.

 

[Eyedea]

Conveniently enough neither did AA or he’d still be hanging around.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[TF97]

Former Blue Jays legend, Deck McGuire, has returned on a MLC.

 

[Kurtz]

The Seattle Mariners appear to be gearing up for the Shohei Ohtani sweepstakes.

In their second trade in 48 hours, the team sent Brazilian prospect Thyago Vieira to the Chicago White Sox for international signing bonus pool money.

MLB Pipeline had Vieira as the No. 8 prospect in the Mariners' system.

Probably means that they're a front-runner for Ohtani. Would make sense that he'd go to a market that Japanese stars have leaned towards in the past. I'd be very, very surprised if Sea/NYY/Dodgers don't get him.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Former Blue Jays legend, Deck McGuire, has returned on a MLC.

Have the outfield upper deck seats in Buffalo and New Hampshire sold out yet?

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

FYI: An Estimate of Every Team’s Payroll Room | FanGraphs Baseball


I've been periodically searching for the potential 2018 version of Chris Taylor (i.e. former decent prospect, turned failed prospect, ~27 who figures it out and turns into a 4 win player, costing next to nothing). I stumbled upon the fact that Nick Franklin is a free agent this winter. He'll be 27 for the 2018 season, outproduced Taylor at AA and AAA at a younger age, and has had some MLB success (as recently as last year). Plays multiple positions (all three OF spots, 2B, and SS if necessary). Sign him up.

 

[Discoverer]

Not that they shouldn't sign him - they stuck with Smoak long enough that it paid off - or that I'm not interested in these types of reclamation project moves, but... Nick Franklin is Rob Refsnyder.

 

[BlueForever75]

Not that they shouldn't sign him - they stuck with Smoak long enough that it paid off - or that I'm not interested in these types of reclamation project moves, but... Nick Franklin is Rob Refsnyder.

Or could be EE or Bautista!!!!

The guy was a 1st rounder. Anything is possible, what do you have to lose!!!!

 

[Discoverer]

Or could be EE or Bautista!!!!

The guy was a 1st rounder. Anything is possible, what do you have to lose!!!!

That was the whole point of the first 80% of my comment.