Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

[trellaine201]

I think Donaldson is beaten up. He plays so hard. Very good player but hard to replace.

There are very few players I'd give 5 year deals to and it's not even my money.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think Donaldson is beaten up. He plays so hard. Very good player but hard to replace.

There are very few players I'd give 5 year deals to and it's not even my money.

I feel like if the Jays either gave Donaldson a long term deal or more money he'd take it.

 

[Kurtz]

As for the Marlins wanting Pillar, I can’t see much interest there, nor do I think Pillar would generate a ton of interest on the market either. He’s approaching that point in his career where his style of play should begin to deteriorate and his value will plummet. Players that rely heavily on elite defense and speed don’t age well, and I would imagine most teams realize that as well. Pillar has more value to Toronto than he does on the trade market. I would keep him in CF even if someone like Cain is brought in.

I agree with this logic but come to a different conclusion - it is exactly because Pillar's value will plummet in a year or two that we should shop him now to a contender/wannabe contender that's on a budget and may not have their CF figured out. (Giants, Mariners, etc).

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Hey guys just wanted to stop by and say I send my condolences. As a kid he was always my favourite baseball player, loved the Blue Jays as a kid.

 

[TF97]

I agree with this logic but come to a different conclusion - it is exactly because Pillar's value will plummet in a year or two that we should shop him now to a contender/wannabe contender that's on a budget and may not have their CF figured out. (Giants, Mariners, etc).

I wholeheartedly agree that shopping Pillar is the right move, I have long said that he should be shopped before his body gives out. However, at this point and with the current roster, I believe it makes the most sense to keep him until Alford proves he is ready to play a full time position in the majors.

Even if Cain is signed, if they are still aiming to contend in 2018 (which it seems like they are) I still think I might hang onto Pillar and put Cain in LF, I really am not too sure that Pillar would fetch enough in a trade to make losing another season or two of his elite defense worth it.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Word around the GM Meetings is they’ve checked in on low-cost relievers, outfielders and most of the available starting pitchers on the market.

Atkins himself also said adding a versatile middle infielder is one of his top priorities.

There’s really no area of the roster that’s complete at this point, which makes the Jays one of the biggest wildcards over the next month, leading into the Winter Meetings back in Orlando at the Walt Disney World Swan & Dolphin Resort from Dec. 10-14.

One executive believes the Jays will be active on the trade front in order to fill some of their holes.

Don’t be surprised to see the Blue Jays make a transaction or two over the next few days.

The deadline to add players to the 40-man roster in order to protect them from the Dec. 14 Rule 5 Draft arrives Monday.

Currently, the Blue Jays’ 40-man roster has 36 players on it, leaving room for four more names over the next few days.

If the organization feels they’re going to leave a player exposed who could be selected, they could try to orchestrate a trade prior to Monday’s deadline.

A few of the first-time eligibles are likely no-brainers to be added to the 40-man, a group that includes right-hander Conner Greene and catcher Danny Jansen.

But there are other interesting names that may not be set in stone, such as first baseman Rowdy Tellez, catcher Reese McGuire, and 2014 first-round pick Max Pentecost.

 

[Anthrax442]

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Hoverhand]

Oh please god no.

I dont know if my heart can handle Jose being one of the Rays shitty reclamation projects they always bring through town.

 

[The Nemesis]

Oh please god no.

I dont know if my heart can handle Jose being one of the Rays ****ty reclamation projects they always bring through town.

I wouldn't worry. It doesn't seem like there's much to reclaim. Jose looked super broken. If it was just his fielding that blew I cold see him making it as a dh, but he looked slow and overmatched at the plate too.

 

[zeke]

joey's gonna have a huge year.

 

[Hoverhand]

I wouldn't worry. It doesn't seem like there's much to reclaim. Jose looked super broken. If it was just his fielding that blew I cold see him making it as a dh, but he looked slow and overmatched at the plate too.

Oh i dont care what his stats are, i just would rather not see him play in Tampa.

...again

 

[hockeywiz542]

It’s been more than a month since Braves general manager John Coppolella and international scouting director Gordon Blakely resigned amid a league investigation into what has since been reported to be an “unprecedented” level of rules violations on the international market and in the domestic amateur draft. While there’s yet to be any official resolution, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports that the Braves will “definitely” lose some prospects that were signed out of Latin America.

Previous reports have suggested that top 2016-17 signing Kevin Maitan, who received a $4.25MM signing bonus, could be among any potential losses, though it’s not yet clear which prospect(s) Atlanta stands to lose. There could be further penalties yet, however, as David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution tweeted earlier this morning that it seems likely that the Braves will be banned from signing any international amateurs for at least one signing period. O’Brien also noted that there’s a “good chance” the Braves will lose some prospects as punishment, while Mark Bowman of MLB.com tweeted that he’d be “surprised” if the Braves didn’t lose at least one prospect, listing Maitain, Ji-Hwan Bae and Abrahan Gutierrez as potential prospects that could be impacted.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Blue Jays want to get younger, too, but as Shapiro aptly put it, “there’s no button to push to convert all nine players to five years younger.”
Ultimately, that will only happen once prospects like Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette and Anthony Alford start turning over the core, leaving the Blue Jays operating on the dual tracks of trying to win in any way possible while also building up the farm.

“That’s really just playing out the team that was put in place in 2015, trying to give that team every chance to continue to win,” said Shapiro. “A high cost was paid. Rightfully so. But now we have to do everything we humanly can to extend that window as long as possible.”

Shapiro refused to discuss specifics as it relates to payroll, but the Blue Jays have $88.3 million in guarantees plus another $47.8 million in projected arbitration salaries, assuming that Tom Koehler gets non-tendered. If their payroll is to be in the $160 million range they started with last year, that leaves them roughly $25 million to augment the current group.

One approach they could take is to buy a middle to high end player or two, leverage the production now and ride out the decline on the back-end of the contract once the kids arrive. Or they could try to trade for a longer-term piece that could time with both groups. Or they could spread the money around on a number of different pieces, searching for value or upside plays that could, potentially, provide a collective push.

“How that ends up unfolding, I can’t tell you today,” said Shapiro. “I know in a perfect world, as an intellectual exercise, what we’d like to have happen. But there’s no use in talking about that publicly, because the likelihood of that transpiring is miniscule. So there’s some scenario-planning where you say, OK, we’ve got these trades to explore, these are the ideal trades to think about where we can build the best possible team, here are the free agents that will fit well, not perfectly but well with what we’re trying to accomplish, and here are clearly the places we need to fill just to get better, or to upgrade on what we had last year, or where we have a hole and we need to add productivity."

“That’s the way we’re looking at it.”

 

[BlueForever75]

Step1: Sign Cain (OF), Sign Chatwood (SP)

Step 2: Trade Morales for parts we need in our everyday lineup (RP, SP Depth, utility players)

Step 3: Trade Pillar and prospects for best package from Marlins (available Gordon, Yelich, Prado)

Step 4: Wait out FA for a bargain in left over positions of need (Backup catcher, OF, IF, RP)

 

[Garlando]

Here's an article from the Hardball Times on Fangraphs called "The Ohtani Algorithm" that tries to break down the factors of Shohei Ohtani's future signing in the majors and which MLB teams rank best in those factors. Overall, they have the Jays ranked 11th in terms of best fit according to their factors.
The Ohtani Algorithm | The Hardball Times

 

[zeke]

"But now we have to do everything we humanly can to extend that window as long as possible.”

but you didn't, shappy.

you didn't.

 

[BlueForever75]

Here's an article from the Hardball Times on Fangraphs called "The Ohtani Algorithm" that tries to break down the factors of Shohei Ohtani's future signing in the majors and which MLB teams rank best in those factors. Overall, they have the Jays ranked 11th in terms of best fit according to their factors.
The Ohtani Algorithm | The Hardball Times

That algorithm or what ever you want to call it is bogus. First off, the Jays as reported were one of the few team that had someone out to every one of his games played due to the scouting presence the Jays have internationally now. They also personally formed a personal relationship with Ohtani which is huge. So the score for team interest is BS.

The playing time score is laughable. As having teams like Cleveland, Houston and the Yankees scored higher is wrong. Cleveland, and Houston need no pitching in their starting rotation. The Yankees are debatable. As for DH or OF positions where Ohtani hypothetically slot in as a dual player, all three of those teams have more depth then the Jays where the Jays have current needs. Also, how any National League team can be ranked higher then an American League team is very funny considering the AL has the DH and the NL does not, which represents an opportunity for more playing time for him.

The last one that I see the Jays ranked very low is the Cultural Comfort. Toronto let alone Canada is Ohtani's for the taking. He doesn't only have the chance to represent a Chinese market regionally but country wide coming to the Jays. Toronto is one of the better North American cities with a big Chinese population. To me if Ohtani is a star, there is no better place for a Cultural fit and presence then Toronto. No one to compete with, and a country for the taking.

So overall, this algorithm is bias and not based on facts. The Jays in my eyes rank in the top 5 when it comes to what type of interest Ohtani should have coming to the Jays. Fits in with the plan moving forward, we can offer him playing time which he wants, he can be the face of Chinese culture in Canada, money isn't an issue because he cant make more going someplace else, but he can make a hell of a lot more through merchandise and endorsements being the Chinese star in Canada.

Take this algorithm for what its worth. Not much.

 

[hoc123]

The last one that I see the Jays ranked very low is the Cultural Comfort. Toronto let alone Canada is Ohtani's for the taking. He doesn't only have the chance to represent a Chinese market regionally but country wide coming to the Jays. Toronto is one of the better North American cities with a big Chinese population. To me if Ohtani is a star, there is no better place for a Cultural fit and presence then Toronto. No one to compete with, and a country for the taking.

So overall, this algorithm is bias and not based on facts. The Jays in my eyes rank in the top 5 when it comes to what type of interest Ohtani should have coming to the Jays. Fits in with the plan moving forward, we can offer him playing time which he wants, he can be the face of Chinese culture in Canada, money isn't an issue because he cant make more going someplace else, but he can make a hell of a lot more through merchandise and endorsements being the Chinese star in Canada.

Take this algorithm for what its worth. Not much.

Not disagreeing with your overall point, but he's Japanese, not Chinese.

 

[BlueForever75]

Not disagreeing with your overall point, but he's Japanese, not Chinese.

Shoot sorry. My bad.

But my points still hold true.

 

[Anthrax442]

DO we have a big Japanese community? I know the Chinese community is yuge.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

There's ~20,000 Japanese people in Toronto.


This winter might be a good time to approach Pittsburgh about Starling Marte. His 2017 was completely lost because of the suspension. Their outfield is also relatively crowded with Luplow, Meadows on the way, and Polanco, Frazier, Osuna. I imagine they'll deal McCutchen to someone while they still can, but Marte is the prize (and the one worth rolling the dice on). Prior to the suspension, his value was close to Eaton's and a bit behind Yelich. 2 + 2 TO's left on his contract.

Not sure if the Pirates are looking to rebuild or not, but a Marte + Harrison for a package of prospects not named Vlad\Bichette\Alford\Pearson\Jansen would be something that interests me.

 

[GoonieFace]

There's ~20,000 Japanese people in Toronto.


This winter might be a good time to approach Pittsburgh about Starling Marte. His 2017 was completely lost because of the suspension. Their outfield is also relatively crowded with Luplow, Meadows on the way, and Polanco, Frazier, Osuna. I imagine they'll deal McCutchen to someone while they still can, but Marte is the prize (and the one worth rolling the dice on). Prior to the suspension, his value was close to Eaton's and a bit behind Yelich. 2 + 2 TO's left on his contract.

Not sure if the Pirates are looking to rebuild or not, but a Marte + Harrison for a package of prospects not named Vlad\Bichette\Alford\Pearson\Jansen would be something that interests me.

Would you be able to get both those guys for a package of prospects that doesn't include Vlad\Bichette\Alford\Pearson\Jansen?

I would attempt maybe a Kinsler on 1 year deal, if he would sign one.

 

[Discoverer]

There's ~20,000 Japanese people in Toronto.

And considering the Chinese-Canadian population is well over 500,000, that point doesn't really transfer.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Would you be able to get both those guys for a package of prospects that doesn't include Vlad\Bichette\Alford\Pearson\Jansen?

I would attempt maybe a Kinsler on 1 year deal, if he would sign one.

This winter? Sure. Warmoth + Greene\SRF + Hernandez (base) gets it done, IMO. That's IF they're hitting the rebuild button.

And considering the Chinese-Canadian population is well over 500,000, that point doesn't really transfer.

Not at all.