Red Wings at the deadline

[InjuredChoker]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=66148

duff on closing window and trades, comments from Z and babs.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

This year, I'm scared of what I'm going to call the Tyler Myers fallacy. Which is the assumption that because a player is okay on a very bad team, he'll be considerably better on a very good team. It applies to Petry as well. If player X performs mediocrely on team T-, then player X will perform significantly better on team T+.

After all, it could be that the team in question is very bad because that player is not carrying the load. It also seems to assume that a player will translate between systems perfectly. But many bad teams play flattering wide-open systems, and many good teams play demanding tight-checking systems. In addition to that, some guys need a boatload of icetime/opportunity to perform, and they might not get all those chances on a better team.

 

[InjuredChoker]

This year, I'm scared of what I'm going to call the Tyler Myers fallacy. Which is the assumption that because a player is okay on a very bad team, he'll be considerably better on a very good team. It applies to Petry as well.

and often, that is true.

i wouldn't pay the price for myers to find out; i'd do it for petry.

 

[TimoneX]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=66148

duff on closing window and trades, comments from Z and babs.

Good stuff, thanks for posting it.

I like that Kronwall was included in that discussion. Really like to see these guys hoist another cup before they call it quits. This season may be their best chance. The Wings have a balanced attack and enough assets in the pipeline to compete for significant upgrades on the back end.

This year, I'm scared of what I'm going to call the Tyler Myers fallacy. Which is the assumption that because a player is okay on a very bad team, he'll be considerably better on a very good team. It applies to Petry as well.

I'm not too worried about it. Kenny has had his gaffes, but he isn't a huge gambler. Nearly all the criticisms leveled at him revolve around him being TOO conservative.

 

[Vladdy84]

I say we go all in. Acquire a Mule replacement and a Top 4 RH PP D. Lets do it. Lets win another cup.

 

[Frk It]

I say we go all in. Acquire a Mule replacement and a Top 4 RH PP D. Lets do it. Lets win another cup.

Could probably get Chris Stewart on the cheap, but he's a reclamation project.

 

[DatsDeking]

I think next year is the serious run for the Cup. Babs stays, big off season acquisition/move, core stays relatively the same and they go for it.

The only thing is to hope the team is as healthy next year as this year.

 

[TimoneX]

I think next year is the serious run for the Cup. Babs stays, big off season acquisition/move, core stays relatively the same and they go for it.

The only thing is to hope the team is as healthy next year as this year.

I dunno, the Wings are better than you'd have thought at this point. Who'd have realistically thought they'd win 7 of 8 with Howard and Monster out? Imagine the standings if Howard could have won a shootout or three. Boston, Pitt, & Washington look pretty vulnerable this year. The vet goalies are on the verge of returning and the forwards are healthy(save Mule)...really think you step on the gas. right. here.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This year, I'm scared of what I'm going to call the Tyler Myers fallacy. Which is the assumption that because a player is okay on a very bad team, he'll be considerably better on a very good team. It applies to Petry as well. If player X performs mediocrely on team T-, then player X will perform significantly better on team T+.

After all, it could be that the team in question is very bad because that player is not carrying the load. It also seems to assume that a player will translate between systems perfectly. But many bad teams play flattering wide-open systems, and many good teams play demanding tight-checking systems. In addition to that, some guys need a boatload of icetime/opportunity to perform, and they might not get all those chances on a better team.

So you only want good players from good teams? Best of luck with that. Trades are never guaranteed to succeed. There is always some risk associated with them. I think the best you can do is resist the temptation to over pay.

 

[odin1981]

I dunno, the Wings are better than you'd have thought at this point. Who'd have realistically thought they'd win 7 of 8 with Howard and Monster out? Imagine the standings if Howard could have won a shootout or three. Boston, Pitt, & Washington look pretty vulnerable this year. The vet goalies are on the verge of returning and the forwards are healthy(save Mule)...really think you step on the gas. right. here.

Gus is back for 1 game until his "groin of steel" gets penetrated again. A piece of wet tissue paper is more robust than his groin.

 

[DatsDeking]

I dunno, the Wings are better than you'd have thought at this point. Who'd have realistically thought they'd win 7 of 8 with Howard and Monster out? Imagine the standings if Howard could have won a shootout or three. Boston, Pitt, & Washington look pretty vulnerable this year. The vet goalies are on the verge of returning and the forwards are healthy(save Mule)...really think you step on the gas. right. here.

I just don't see them doing it because they'll be too worried about losing future assets. I know it is a "get what you give" situation but I, personally, don't think the Wings want to or have to give anything this season. I think they'll wait till the off-season and swing a cheap deal or sign a UFA. I don't think they'll want to trade and I'm sure our success in the midst of all our anticipation to fail this season (from the media) will cause UFA to take a second look at Detroit.

I wouldn't mind a move, I think Helm, Ericsson, Smith, and maybe even Jurco are expendable for the right price. The issue is I don't think Ken and Co. will do it when they might think they can grab and go over the off-season.

 

[DatsDeking]

Gus is back for 1 game until his "groin of steel" gets penetrated again. A piece of wet tissue paper is more robust than his groin.

Poetic

 

[Electric Eric]

My hope through all of this is we sit pat at the deadline and at the draft go after Bogo from the Jets hard.

 

[InjuredChoker]

After all, it could be that the team in question is very bad because that player is not carrying the load. It also seems to assume that a player will translate between systems perfectly. But many bad teams play flattering wide-open systems, and many good teams play demanding tight-checking systems. In addition to that, some guys need a boatload of icetime/opportunity to perform, and they might not get all those chances on a better team.

1. i don't know how anyone can look at oilers roster, their lack of two way Fs, 2C, no top pairing defenders, no legit starters or even watch them play.

2. dman rarely, if ever, struggle when coming into play under babcock. they usually do better under him than everywhere else. petry isn't a player who gambles a ton.

i'd assume his play improves when gets to play from bad team, bad coach, tough minutes paired with andrew ference and players who don't care about D to good team, good coach and players who play very responsible D and paired with kronwall or dekeyser.

3. petry would get pretty much the same ice time here. maybe even more. he plays 21 mins in EDM.

 

[TimoneX]

I just don't see them doing it because they'll be too worried about losing future assets. I know it is a "get what you give" situation but I, personally, don't think the Wings want to or have to give anything this season. I think they'll wait till the off-season and swing a cheap deal or sign a UFA. I don't think they'll want to trade and I'm sure our success in the midst of all our anticipation to fail this season (from the media) will cause UFA to take a second look at Detroit.

I wouldn't mind a move, I think Helm, Ericsson, Smith, and maybe even Jurco are expendable for the right price. The issue is I don't think Ken and Co. will do it when they might think they can grab and go over the off-season.

Think Kenny is looking at the same standings as everyone else and some of those future prospects are going to get gone anyway because there's only so many roster spots. I don't see KH being so conservative that he won't pony up for a rental on Franson, Zidlicky, or Green if he can swing it. The Wings are contenders right now imo and an upgrade on the blueline could be the difference in a tough PO matchup.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=66148

duff on closing window and trades, comments from Z and babs.

A couple interesting points here and yes some of it just can be context, but focusing on them none the less is interesting.

“The general manager’s job is to weigh the current cost vs. the current gain vs. the future damage. That’s the decision time for every team in the league, not just for (GM) Ken (Holland) and myself.”

This is a fascinating comment for me and it could just be a mistake in phrasing. But it would appear Babcock does have some say. Not final say as he has noted, but the notion that he wants more power is out there. This doesn't seem like a guy that doesn't think he is heard though and doesn't seem like a guy that isn't looking at two phases, present and future.

Zetterberg is on board with getting pieces. This is big, but he is also pointing out these young guys need to win for themselves as well, that is the Red Wings way. Strong message from the captain and smart as always.

The players and coach feel they are buyers. The GM has said he is interesting in something big, but not just a deal to make a deal. Something Babcock said and Z got at as well. It would seem from boardroom to dressing room these guys are all on the same page right now, pretty interesting unified front.

Also Babcock touching on him and Blashill doing their job creating too many assets for certain spots is worth highlighting. It is true, either at the deadline or the draft they are going to do something, it would seem like the players and Babs are pushing for the earlier timeline as long as it isn't a massive haul. Even they seem to understand they have a bright future, could they win this year? Yes it seems like our Captain and Coach believe that to be the case.

 

[Ricelund]

Grossmann is a guy I can see them being interested in that hasn't been mentioned much. I'm pretty sure they were considering him the year they traded for Quincey. He's big, he's Swedish, and he was pretty solid last I checked. I haven't watched Philadelphia at all this year, so I'm not sure if that's still true.

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Quincey
Ouellet-Grossmann

 

[Hendricks433]

Grossmann is a guy I can see them being interested in that hasn't been mentioned much. I'm pretty sure they were considering him the year they traded for Quincey. He's big, he's Swedish, and he was pretty solid last I checked. I haven't watched Philadelphia at all this year, so I'm not sure if that's still true.

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Quincey
Ouellet-Grossmann

We don't need another 5 or 6. We have lots of those.

 

[Ricelund]

We don't need another 5 or 6. We have lots of those.

Like Kindl and Lashoff?

The best 5-6 option would probably be Marchenko and Ouellet at this point -- and I can guarantee you Holland doesn't want a rookie third pairing in the playoffs.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Like Kindl and Lashoff?

The best 5-6 option would probably be Marchenko and Ouellet at this point -- and I can guarantee you Holland doesn't want a rookie third pairing in the playoffs.

Smith is fine there, see you have him off the roster.

Grossman is pretty bad, he would bring some bite and shot blocking, but there is a reason everyone in Philly talks about how terrible their back-end is. He is a part of that problem not a guy simply saddled with the others. He does not offer much of an upgrade on this team, though he would provide a little more physicality and net front clearing presence. That would come at the downgrade of speed and even a little bit in passing and getting out of the zone. He is very easy to forecheck, yes he bounces off the hit, but the other team gets the puck.

 

[Frk It]

Grossmann is a guy I can see them being interested in that hasn't been mentioned much. I'm pretty sure they were considering him the year they traded for Quincey. He's big, he's Swedish, and he was pretty solid last I checked. I haven't watched Philadelphia at all this year, so I'm not sure if that's still true.

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Quincey
Ouellet-Grossmann

Is your goal to make us worse?

 

[Ricelund]

Smith is fine there, see you have him off the roster.

Grossman is pretty bad, he would bring some bite and shot blocking, but there is a reason everyone in Philly talks about how terrible their back-end is. He is a part of that problem not a guy simply saddled with the others. He does not offer much of an upgrade on this team, though he would provide a little more physicality and net front clearing presence. That would come at the downgrade of speed and even a little bit in passing and getting out of the zone. He is very easy to forecheck, yes he bounces off the hit, but the other team gets the puck.

Sorry, meant to write Smith/Grossmann on the third pair.

 

[detredWINgs]

Grossman is Lilja at peak performance. That's the kind of move you make when you've already rectified more glaring deficiencies.

I thought this quote was interesting:

“What my job is and what Blash’s (AHL Grand Rapids coach Jeff Blashill) job is, is to develop players so we create as many assets as we can. Sometimes you end up with too many guys for one spot and you can make a move to make your team better.

The Wings definitely have a glut of NHL defenseman. If we make any upgrade to our defense whatsoever externally, then we have no room for Marchenko or Ouellet (or Jensen for that matter).

 

[Marky9er]

Could probably get Chris Stewart on the cheap, but he's a reclamation project.

I've thought of it, I fully expect him to get dealt to Boston though. I haven't watched Buffalo much, I don't know if he just needs a change of scenery or what happened to him.

I think we could definitely use some size to compliment the skill. Especially if some room opens up trading a roster forward for a defensive upgrade. Did some window shopping, and wasn't all that impressed with what could be available. Hanzal as a throw in with OEL would be nice! :p

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Grossmann is a guy I can see them being interested in that hasn't been mentioned much. I'm pretty sure they were considering him the year they traded for Quincey. He's big, he's Swedish, and he was pretty solid last I checked. I haven't watched Philadelphia at all this year, so I'm not sure if that's still true.

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Quincey
Ouellet-Grossmann

Ugh. Stop. He is really, really bad.