Speculation: Realistic return for Devils UFA's

[Emperoreddy]

palms isn't getting a first as of right now that is. if he does it will be one of those that is determined on how far the team advances in the playoffs devils really should've looked to moving him last year the return would've been a lot better a 1st and a decent prospect or a second. zajac easily gets a second but i dont think they move him playoff teams would love to have him

They did look. Fitz didn't like the offers he got versus Palms value by staying.

Palms most likely ends up resigned to a 2-3 year deal.

Team needs NHL goal scorers, not more picks.

 

[blink]

I get it but like....we wonder why we have goal scoring issues but we keep bringing back the same guys/bringing in the same types of guys that don't score with any semblance of consistency.

Palmieri might be the best pure goal scorer that we have, but that doesn't mean he's that good. He's 30 and he has 179 career goals. He's scored 30 goals 1 time. He's not that great of a goal scorer and certainly replaceable. More importantly, he does not mesh with the style of center this team has. Tying ourselves to him for 2-3 more years gives me agita.

This. I wouldn't call Palmieri a sniper. He's the best we have of a sad bunch which increases his value to us but not to other teams. He's a 2nd-3rd liner on good teams.

He is certainly replaceable.

 

[Billdo]

The issue with tossing Palmieri off as being replaceable is with who we'd replace him with. We haven't been able to get any goal scorers to come here so why do we think he's easily replaceable?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I get it but like....we wonder why we have goal scoring issues but we keep bringing back the same guys/bringing in the same types of guys that don't score with any semblance of consistency.

Palmieri might be the best pure goal scorer that we have, but that doesn't mean he's that good. He's 30 and he has 179 career goals. He's scored 30 goals 1 time. He's not that great of a goal scorer and certainly replaceable. More importantly, he does not mesh with the style of center this team has. Tying ourselves to him for 2-3 more years gives me agita.

okay, and how are you replacing him?

Most people don't want to go the UFA route and many times UFAs dont want to sign here.

 

[My3Sons]

The cap hit for Palms seems like it would be reasonable and as long as he doesn’t block Mercer or Holtz he’s probably an ok fit for two or at most three seasons.

 

[blink]

The issue with tossing Palmieri off as being replaceable is with who we'd replace him with. We haven't been able to get any goal scorers to come here so why do we think he's easily replaceable?

This is why this offseason is vitally important in terms of our teams trajectory. Fitz needs to add some scorers and guys who have won before. We have the cap space to do so with smart signings. It's time to start using all of this cap space we have accumulated. I'm not saying we need to break the bank but let's go out and capitalize on some teams cap issues. I don't think we have been doing a great job of that in the past. The Johnsson trade is looking worse each day and Anderson isn't even playing in the NHL. We've got plenty more money coming off the cap again this year.

Last offseason we added Crawford, Johnsson, Murray, Kulikov. One forward, unless I'm missing someone. Which leaves us relying on more kids than we should be (Sharangovich, Maltsev in top 9 roles). If we have another offseason like that, it's not going to cut it and we'll be complaining about the same issues next year. Guys like Holtz, Mercer, Foote are not going to be ready next year, Foote maybe. I'm not convinced Sharangovich and Maltsev are ready for regular NHL duty but here they are pressed into it because we have no other options.

Remember what we gave up to get Palmieri in the first place. It wasn't a whole lot at the time. There are many ways we can add talent. At some point we need to turn some of these prospects and picks into NHL assets. Fitz clears out what he can at the deadline and then we look at this offseason as a huge opportunity to add the necessary skill to our team.

We are in a GREAT cap situation but at some point, we need to move forward and use it. The key here is to not waste it and spend wisely.

We have talented young kids already but they need the proper vets to help them take that next step forward. How much winning has Palmieri experienced in his career? This isn't a knock against him per se but it does put a spotlight on the culture change that we need to make here.

 

[Billdo]

This is why this offseason is vitally important in terms of our teams trajectory. Fitz needs to add some scorers and guys who have won before. We have the cap space to do so with smart signings. It's time to start using all of this cap space we have accumulated. I'm not saying we need to break the bank but let's go out and capitalize on some teams cap issues. I don't think we have been doing a great job of that in the past. The Johnsson trade is looking worse each day and Anderson isn't even playing in the NHL. We've got plenty more money coming off the cap again this year.

Last offseason we added Crawford, Johnsson, Murray, Kulikov. One forward, unless I'm missing someone. Which leaves us relying on more kids than we should be (Sharangovich, Maltsev in top 9 roles). If we have another offseason like that, it's not going to cut it and we'll be complaining about the same issues next year. Guys like Holtz, Mercer, Foote are not going to be ready next year, Foote maybe. I'm not convinced Sharangovich and Maltsev are ready for regular NHL duty but here they are pressed into it because we have no other options.

Remember what we gave up to get Palmieri in the first place. It wasn't a whole lot at the time. There are many ways we can add talent. At some point we need to turn some of these prospects and picks into NHL assets. Fitz clears out what he can at the deadline and then we look at this offseason as a huge opportunity to add the necessary skill to our team.

We are in a GREAT cap situation but at some point, we need to move forward and use it. The key here is to not waste it and spend wisely.

We have talented young kids already but they need the proper vets to help them take that next step forward. How much winning has Palmieri experienced in his career? This isn't a knock against him per se but it does put a spotlight on the culture change that we need to make here.

Who then? That's the thing nobody seems to have an answer for. Who is a proven 25 to 30 on a good year scorer who we can acquire or convince to sign here bc let's be honest, free agents aren't chomping at the bit to come here.

 

[blink]

Who then? That's the thing nobody seems to have an answer for. Who is a proven 25 to 30 on a good year scorer who we can acquire or convince to sign here bc let's be honest, free agents aren't chomping at the bit to come here.

Some of the names I'm going to mention here won't be popular. Some may never have been an option for us, who knows what goes on behind the scenes. Some of these guys aren't proven scorers but would have helped the kids and in some cases, made us a much tougher team to play against. Most of these guys could have helped the offence and none of these guys would have broken the bank. And these are just the free agents, I'm not even talking about guys who would have been available via trade.

Craig Smith
Mike Hoffman
Matthias Janmark
Vlad Namestnikov
Tyson Barrie
Dominik Kahun
Alex Wennberg
Anthony Duclair
Andreas Athanasiou
Kyle Clifford
Pat Maroon

Our big add was Johnsson in a trade. I would have rather had any of these guys over Johnsson.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

This is why this offseason is vitally important in terms of our teams trajectory. Fitz needs to add some scorers and guys who have won before. We have the cap space to do so with smart signings. It's time to start using all of this cap space we have accumulated. I'm not saying we need to break the bank but let's go out and capitalize on some teams cap issues. I don't think we have been doing a great job of that in the past. The Johnsson trade is looking worse each day and Anderson isn't even playing in the NHL. We've got plenty more money coming off the cap again this year.

Last offseason we added Crawford, Johnsson, Murray, Kulikov. One forward, unless I'm missing someone. Which leaves us relying on more kids than we should be (Sharangovich, Maltsev in top 9 roles). If we have another offseason like that, it's not going to cut it and we'll be complaining about the same issues next year. Guys like Holtz, Mercer, Foote are not going to be ready next year, Foote maybe. I'm not convinced Sharangovich and Maltsev are ready for regular NHL duty but here they are pressed into it because we have no other options.

Remember what we gave up to get Palmieri in the first place. It wasn't a whole lot at the time. There are many ways we can add talent. At some point we need to turn some of these prospects and picks into NHL assets. Fitz clears out what he can at the deadline and then we look at this offseason as a huge opportunity to add the necessary skill to our team.

We are in a GREAT cap situation but at some point, we need to move forward and use it. The key here is to not waste it and spend wisely.

We have talented young kids already but they need the proper vets to help them take that next step forward. How much winning has Palmieri experienced in his career? This isn't a knock against him per se but it does put a spotlight on the culture change that we need to make here.

It sounds like you were not listening to what Fitz was saying last offseason. He was clear this was a process year. Signing veteran wings was something he knew could help the team in the short run but wanted to give the young players a real chance. I do not get the impression the organization was all that concerned about what the record was going to be this year. With hindsight they were correct IMO. Since Nico has been a non-factor this year there was no path to the team being a playoff team IMO.

 

[Guttersniped]

I doubt any UFA is getting a 5 year contract

I Think 3-4 years is much more realistic

If the cap isn’t going up for 3-4 years like some say then he’s getting bupkis, the UFA winger market was the one that already collapsed this off-season. His agent will point to Gallagher’s 6 year/6.5m and everyone will ignore that. He may have better numbers than Toffoli but 4 years/4.25m is likely as good as it gets for a non-elite winger now. (Dadonov got 3 years/5m.)

It’s cap apocalypse, a lot guys are going to get bought out. There’s a sentimental aspect here but there will likely be cheaper short term options if Palmieri demands a longer deal. I kind of want to keep him but it’s harder for Fitz to low ball him, he’ll sign a 1-2 year deal somewhere else but it’s likely he’ll expect a longer deal from us. It’s weird but that’s how it usually works.

 

[TheFacePainter]

I’m not banking on Palmieri or Gusev returning all that much, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the returns pass a lot of expectations here. NHL GMs seem to value players based on longer time horizons than fans do and “overpay” for them. I could see a playoff time desperate for scoring taking a flier on either even if their slumps continue

 

[MadDevil]

I’m not banking on Palmieri or Gusev returning all that much, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the returns pass a lot of expectations here. NHL GMs seem to value players based on longer time horizons than fans do and “overpay” for them. I could see a playoff time desperate for scoring taking a flier on either even if their slumps continue

Palms I think could still get something pretty decent because of his track record. While streaky within a season he's usually been good for ~25 goals a year. I could see some GM gambling that he could regain that form (I highly doubt he's suddenly lost all of his goal scoring ability). Gusev is the weird one because what track record there is is inconsistent. It's basically a half season where he was really good. I don't know how willing anybody is going to be give anything of value up, unless he gets hot for the next month.

 

[TheFacePainter]

Palms I think could still get something pretty decent because of his track record. While streaky within a season he's usually been good for ~25 goals a year. I could see some GM gambling that he could regain that form (I highly doubt he's suddenly lost all of his goal scoring ability). Gusev is the weird one because what track record there is is inconsistent. It's basically a half season where he was really good. I don't know how willing anybody is going to be give anything of value up, unless he gets hot for the next month.

That’s a solid assessment. I agree Gusev is far more unproven, but 44 points in 66 games on a dumpy team could still attract looks if he can score a few non garbage points before the deadline. I could see a 3rd + project prospect kind of thing

 

[Derps]

okay, and how are you replacing him?

Most people don't want to go the UFA route and many times UFAs dont want to sign here.

I think Im at the point where Id rather leave the spot open and figure out how to replace him in real time than *need* a replacement before I move on. He's just not good enough in my mind. The standards are so low around here after having years of the Ryders and the Mike Calamaris, er, Cammalleris.

If the choice is resign Palmieri for 3 years or leave the 1RW vacant for a little bit -- or have some uncertainty -- I choose the latter. But that's just me. I'm ready to move on *shrug*

 

[beekay414]

By "extend" I meant those of you that want him around for 3+ more years. I don't know how you guys can watch him play this year and think "yeah, that's a guy I want around long term." I don't really care for the "shooting percentage" argument due to watching him play and him being 100% the reason for that crappy percentage this year, not spectacular saves or bad puck luck. I recall when he was damn near in the crease and somehow managed to put the puck wide of the net and get all glass. His skating is already turd level and he doesn't mesh with the style of hockey we've been playing. I mean, he looked brutal playing with Jack because he couldn't anticipate anything about Jack's playmaking ability.

If he's willing to take a 1 or 2 year deal until Mercer/Holtz/Clarke etc are ready, fine. If he's adamant about 3-4 years, in this market, he can take the first bus outta town on April 12th. As was said prior, I'm not signing someone just because a replacement isn't ready. That's bad business and how you get stuck with crap contracts and I can almost guarantee that a Palms contract beyond 1-2 years will be a crap contract. He already doesn't skate well, looks disinterested 90% of the time and when he's not scoring, he's offering nothing of value. He's dreadful on the PK so you can't play him there so it's not like he provides some must have special teams value.

I also don't have any type of emotional attachment to the guy so...see ya.

 

[Forge]

I've been on the no long term deal for palms bandwagon forever and a day now, so I won't relitigate that, but if he's coming back on 1-2, in fine with it.

That said, the deal has to be done by the deadline. If there is no extension by then, I'm trading him

 

[glenwo2]

I've been on the no long term deal for palms bandwagon forever and a day now, so I won't relitigate that, but if he's coming back on 1-2, in fine with it.

That said, the deal has to be done by the deadline. If there is no extension by then, I'm trading him

After tonight's debacle, I'd be hard-pressed to offer him even a 1-year deal.

 

[Forge]

After tonight's debacle, I'd be hard-pressed to offer him even a 1-year deal.

I actually said the same thing somewhere else about thirty minutes ago lol

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I'm gonna psychoanalyze a player based on body language / his play / he grew a beard: Palmieri seems checked out, I don't think he'd re-sign at this point. I think he wants to be moved for a postseason run to try and up his value.

 

[beekay414]

I'm gonna psychoanalyze a player based on body language / his play / he grew a beard: Palmieri seems checked out, I don't think he'd re-sign at this point. I think he wants to be moved for a postseason run to try and up his value.

His self awareness is ridiculously bad. Dude comes in the post game presser and mentions energy and effort and he's been one of the worst guys this year in that regard. I honestly don't want him back. The vets on this team have been the problem, not the youth.

 

[glenwo2]

I actually said the same thing somewhere else about thirty minutes ago lol

Great Minds think alike.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

At the moment, i'm not bringing back any of the UFAs on this team.

And if I'm Fitzy, I'm offering these players to teams right now and not waiting for trade deadline.

This team needs a shakeup. I'll be happy to play youth for the rest of the season.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

You got to earn your contract and Palmieri hasn’t earned shit with the piss poor play and leadership he’s given us this year.

He’s the GF that took on 20 pounds in a year. You still love her but she’s trending south and eating chocolate brownies for souper on a weekly basis... it’s just time to move on.

 

[MartyOwns]

You got to earn your contract and Palmieri hasn’t earned shit with the piss poor play and leadership he’s given us this year.

He’s the GF that took on 20 pounds in a year. You still love her but she’s trending south and eating chocolate brownies for souper on a weekly basis... it’s just time to move on.

yeah we aren't doing shit this year, so he should definitely be traded. but i'd be open to signing him to a 1-2 year deal in the offseason to give hotlz plenty of time to marinate

 

[Billdo]

At the moment, i'm not bringing back any of the UFAs on this team.

And if I'm Fitzy, I'm offering these players to teams right now and not waiting for trade deadline.

This team needs a shakeup. I'll be happy to play youth for the rest of the season.

I'd still bring back Kulikov and entertain the idea of bringing back Murray.