RD Timothy Liljegren - Ex-Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) III

[Lil Tuzzi Bert]

Disagree. I thought Brannstrom was the best Swedish defender and was more dynamic and defensively polished.

Well he definitely showed up against Belarus I'll give ya that but nothing against the powerhouse teams really...

 

[Diamonddog01]

Well he definitely showed up against Belarus I'll give ya that but nothing against the powerhouse teams really...

As opposed to 2 points vs Russia? I thought he looked great vs Canada and picked up a point there. He played 6 more min than Liljegren in the quarterfinals, 3 more minutes than Liljegren in the semis and another 3 in the finals. He was a better defender than Liljegren, in that particular tournament (not that I put a lot of weight into it). Newfy's comments on him in this thread are bang on. He's tracking well for where he was drafted, I personally don't see top pairing potential, but possibly top 4 if the stars align.

 

[WTFMAN99]

As opposed to 2 points vs Russia? I thought he looked great vs Canada and picked up a point there. He played 6 more min than Liljegren in the quarterfinals, 3 more minutes than Liljegren in the semis and another 3 in the finals. He was a better defender than Liljegren, in that particular tournament (not that I put a lot of weight into it). Newfy's comments on him in this thread are bang on. He's tracking well for where he was drafted, I personally don't see top pairing potential, but possibly top 4 if the stars align.

I see the top pairing potential to be honest. I think if he was able to stay healthy this year, statistically he'd look pretty good in the AHL. Only problem is 18 years old against men in the AHL can be rough. Talent and skill level are there but needs to physically mature. He's cut down some of the bad pinches.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I see the top pairing potential to be honest. I think if he was able to stay healthy this year, statistically he'd look pretty good in the AHL. Only problem is 18 years old against men in the AHL can be rough. Talent and skill level are there but needs to physically mature. He's cut down some of the bad pinches.

Fair enough. I have a different view but admittedly have not watched him much this season.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Fair enough. I have a different view but admittedly have not watched him much this season.

It'll probably be another year or so but he'll get there I think, maybe it is only as a 2nd pairing guy but that is still good value on a 17th pick, especially since right handed shot defenseman are so coveted.

 

[Lil Tuzzi Bert]

As opposed to 2 points vs Russia? I thought he looked great vs Canada and picked up a point there. He played 6 more min than Liljegren in the quarterfinals, 3 more minutes than Liljegren in the semis and another 3 in the finals. He was a better defender than Liljegren, in that particular tournament (not that I put a lot of weight into it). Newfy's comments on him in this thread are bang on. He's tracking well for where he was drafted, I personally don't see top pairing potential, but possibly top 4 if the stars align.

Guess we disagree then, I saw Lilly as a better defender who was slightly less dynamic in his play during the tournament.

 

[biotk]

Disagree. I thought Brannstrom was the best Swedish defender and was more dynamic and defensively polished.

That was not my assessment of the WJC. First Dahlin was the best Swedish defender. Brannstrom played exactly the way I feared that Liljegren might - making risky plays with puck and turning over the puck especially against weaker teams. I feel that Brannstrom's points early in the tournament overshadowed the weaknesses he showed, which were usually rescued by Dahlin. It is possible that Brannstrom was taking risks at ES because he was not getting PP time, I don't know. Liljegren played simple and solid, and when the more difficult games came along he looked better suited for them.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

No offense but many of the guys on your list, like Risto for example were U20 not U19.
I am sure Liljegren's statistics will improve dramatically next year with a year of experience in the league under his belt.

All the stats are from these guys' draft+1 season. Ristolainen, Honka and Hägg being 0.4 years older doesn't make a difference here, even if it disqualifies their season from being their U19 season. They were still 18 for most of the season.

 

[AppsSyl]

Disagree. I thought Brannstrom was the best Swedish defender and was more dynamic and defensively polished.

While we are comparing Brannstrom and Liljegren...

SHL 2017-18

Erik Brännström (D)

HV71

40

1

11

12

0.30

20

-9

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

AHL 2017-18

Timothy Liljegren (D)

Toronto Marlies

29

1

11

12

0.41

12

12

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I think we can all agree that the AHL is a much tougher league for an 18 year old Swedish d-man to adjust to and play in. Both have 1g 11a and 12pts, except Liljegren has played 11 less games.

 

[Canada4Gold]

All the stats are from these guys' draft+1 season. Ristolainen, Honka and Hägg being 0.4 years older doesn't make a difference here, even if it disqualifies their season from being their U19 season. They were still 18 for most of the season.

Just checking the first guy. Ristolainen's birthday is October 27th. Unless the AHL season starts in June he wasn't 18 for most of his season. He was actually 18 for under a month of his season. These birth year v. draft year debates are quite stupid and I try to avoid them because people tend to pick what suits their side, but if you're going to get into them and argue side, then at least get the facts correct.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

Just checking the first guy. Ristolainen's birthday is October 27th. Unless the AHL season starts in June he wasn't 18 for most of his season. He was actually 18 for under a month of his season. These birth year v. draft year debates are quite stupid and I try to avoid them because people tend to pick what suits their side, but if you're going to get into them and argue side, then at least get the facts correct.

Oops, you are right. Still, Ristolainen, who I think is the oldest for his draft class of the bunch, is only half a year older than Liljegren, so there is absolutely no point in separating their seasons into U19 and U20.

 

[Diamonddog01]

While we are comparing Brannstrom and Liljegren...

SHL 2017-18

Erik Brännström (D)

HV71

40

1

11

12

0.30

20

-9

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

AHL 2017-18

Timothy Liljegren (D)

Toronto Marlies

29

1

11

12

0.41

12

12

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I think we can all agree that the AHL is a much tougher league for an 18 year old Swedish d-man to adjust to and play in. Both have 1g 11a and 12pts, except Liljegren has played 11 less games.

Yes, Liljegren's ppg is higher to his credit but you have to account for the offence of their respective teams and things like ice-time and pp time. I wouldn't say that the AHL is a much tougher league for an 18 year-old player however. The most recent league equivalencies I've seen are

.74 KHL .58 SHL .47 AHL .43 SM-Liiga, Swiss NLA, NCHC .38 H-East .33 Big 10 .30 OHL .29 WHL .25 QMJHL .23 ECAC

Which is from a guy called Rob Vollman in May of 2017. There's an argument to made that the SHL is just as difficult as the AHL.

 

[AppsSyl]

Yes, Liljegren's ppg is higher to his credit but you have to account for the offence of their respective teams and things like ice-time and pp time. I wouldn't say that the AHL is a much tougher league for an 18 year-old player however. The most recent league equivalencies I've seen are

.74 KHL .58 SHL .47 AHL .43 SM-Liiga, Swiss NLA, NCHC .38 H-East .33 Big 10 .30 OHL .29 WHL .25 QMJHL .23 ECAC

Which is from a guy called Rob Vollman in May of 2017. There's an argument to made that the SHL is just as difficult as the AHL.

I think you need to factor in that Liljegren had to adjust to playing on NA ice, which is something is difficult for a young defender coming over from Europe. The ice surface is smaller and there is much less time to make decisions, while Brannstrom was familiar with the SHL having played in it the previous year. The learning curve is much smaller.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I think you need to factor in that Liljegren had to adjust to playing on NA ice, which is something is difficult for a young defender coming over from Europe. The ice surface is smaller and there is much less time to make decisions.

Sure. Lots of factors to consider, but ultimately I don't think you can say his league is 'much tougher'. Did he have a few more challenges to adjust to? Absolutely - smaller rink, living abroad for the first time, etc. I don't view that as evidence he's a superior player though.

 

[AppsSyl]

Sure. Lots of factors to consider, but ultimately I don't think you can say his league is 'much tougher'. Did he have a few more challenges to adjust to? Absolutely. That doesn't mean much imo.

I had said it is much tougher for an 18 year old Swedish d-man. A big part of that statement was in relation to having to adjust to a different ice surface and less time to make decisions.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I had said it is much tougher for an 18 year old Swedish d-man. A big part of that statement was in relation to having to adjust to a different ice surface and less time to make decisions.

Sure. It's a harder league to adjust to for an 18 year-old Swedish defenceman. That statement doesn't really mean that much nor does it really suggest that he is a superior player imo.

 

[newfy]

Relative to what, Dahlin and Makar?

Well yeah compared to them but lets not pretend Liljegren was some dominating force out there. He wasnt horrible but he wasnt great either, played more physical than I expected. For a guy being touted as a future top pairing D by some, and some saying he only fell because of mono/his hot start in the AHL was of historic proportions for his age he really didnt do a tonne to impress (or sour) me on him. Hes a guy whose played against men for a few years, is in the AHL having a historic statistical start and he had a very meh tournament compared to what you might expect from someone who is having such a season.

If you wanna talk about stats (which I really dont), 2 points in 7 games for a guy who looks to have top pairing upside is a bland tournament in my opinion, and its part of the reason why I say hes performing like a mid first round D should.

12 points. That's the number we're dealing with.

Twelve.

T.W.E.L.V.E.



A puck bounces off his shin and his teammate scores and his even-strength points per 60 quadruples.
He starts his shift as the puck is traveling down the ice for icing and his even-strength points per 60 is cut in half.

Let the guy play some hockey before putting a microscope on his stats.

Exactly what I've been saying

 

[AppsSyl]

Well yeah compared to them but lets not pretend Liljegren was some dominating force out there. He wasnt horrible but he wasnt great either, played more physical than I expected. For a guy being touted as a future top pairing D by some, and some saying he only fell because of mono/his hot start in the AHL was of historic proportions for his age he really didnt do a tonne to impress (or sour) me on him. Hes a guy whose played against men for a few years, is in the AHL having a historic statistical start and he had a very meh tournament compared to what you might expect from someone who is having such a season.

If you wanna talk about stats (which I really dont), 2 points in 7 games for a guy who looks to have top pairing upside is a bland tournament in my opinion, and its part of the reason why I say hes performing like a mid first round D should.



Exactly what I've been saying

Yeah, let's talk stats. It is fine if you want to downplay his U19 stats from the AHL, but let's look at his last three seasons playing professional hockey with men. The following is highest PPG (because of the variance in GP) for d-men, since the year 2000 for U17 and U18 in the SHL and U19 in the AHL. Even in his draft year where people said he did not perform well, his production landed him the 4th highest in the last couple of decades. If you look at his U17 in the SHL and U19 in the AHL since the year 2000, he is first.


Statistics - SHL Defensemen u17 Season PPG Since 2000 (10+ Games)

PLAYER STATS

#	PLAYER	SEASON	TEAM	GP	G	A	TP	PPG	PIM	+/-
1.	Timothy Liljegren (D)	2015-2016	Rögle BK	19	1	4	5	0.26	4	-7
2.	Oliver Kylington (D)	2013-2014	Färjestad BK	32	2	4	6	0.19	6	5
3.	Adam Ginning (D)	2016-2017	Linköping HC	12	0	2	2	0.17	6	-1
4.	Rasmus Dahlin (D)	2016-2017	Frölunda HC	26	1	2	3	0.12	6	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Statistics - SHL Defensemen u18 Season PPG Since 2000 (10+ Games)

PLAYER STATS

#	PLAYER	SEASON	TEAM	GP	G	A	TP	PPG	PIM	+/-
1.	Rasmus Dahlin (D)	2017-2018	Frölunda HC	37	6	11	17	0.46	18	3
2.	Adam Larsson (D)	2009-2010	Skellefteå AIK	49	4	13	17	0.35	18	-7
3.	Oliver Kylington (D)	2014-2015	Färjestad BK	18	2	3	5	0.28	4	-2
4.	Timothy Liljegren (D)	2016-2017	Rögle BK	19	1	4	5	0.26	4	-3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Statistics - AHL Defensemen u19 Season PPG Since 2000 (10+ Games)

PLAYER STATS

#	PLAYER	SEASON	TEAM	GP	G	A	TP	PPG	PIM	+/-
1.	Timothy Liljegren (D)	2017-2018	Toronto Marlies	29	1	11	12	0.41	12	12
2.	Robert Hägg (D)	2013-2014	Adirondack Phantoms	10	1	3	4	0.40	10	1
3.	Slava Voynov (D)	2008-2009	Manchester Monarchs	61	8	15	23	0.38	46	-3
4.	Dylan Labbé (D)	2013-2014	Iowa Wild	11	1	2	3	0.27	4	-3
5.	Oliver Kylington (D)	2015-2016	Stockton Heat	47	5	7	12	0.26	14	-15
6.	Hampus Lindholm (D)	2012-2013	Norfolk Admirals	44	1	10	11	0.25	16	5
7.	Morgan Rielly (D)	2012-2013	Toronto Marlies	14	1	2	3	0.21	0	-1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[newfy]

Yeah, let's talk stats. It is fine if you want to downplay his U19 stats from the AHL, but let's look at his last three seasons playing professional hockey with men. The following is highest PPG (because of the variance in GP) for d-men, since the year 2000 for U17 and U18 in the SHL and U19 in the AHL. Even in his draft year where people said he did not perform well, his production landed him the 4th highest in the last couple of decades. If you look at his U17 in the SHL and U19 in the AHL since the year 2000, he is first.


Statistics - SHL Defensemen u17 Season PPG Since 2000 (10+ Games)

PLAYER STATS

#	PLAYER	SEASON	TEAM	GP	G	A	TP	PPG	PIM	+/-
1.	Timothy Liljegren (D)	2015-2016	Rögle BK	19	1	4	5	0.26	4	-7
2.	Oliver Kylington (D)	2013-2014	Färjestad BK	32	2	4	6	0.19	6	5
3.	Adam Ginning (D)	2016-2017	Linköping HC	12	0	2	2	0.17	6	-1
4.	Rasmus Dahlin (D)	2016-2017	Frölunda HC	26	1	2	3	0.12	6	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Statistics - SHL Defensemen u18 Season PPG Since 2000 (10+ Games)

PLAYER STATS

#	PLAYER	SEASON	TEAM	GP	G	A	TP	PPG	PIM	+/-
1.	Rasmus Dahlin (D)	2017-2018	Frölunda HC	37	6	11	17	0.46	18	3
2.	Adam Larsson (D)	2009-2010	Skellefteå AIK	49	4	13	17	0.35	18	-7
3.	Oliver Kylington (D)	2014-2015	Färjestad BK	18	2	3	5	0.28	4	-2
4.	Timothy Liljegren (D)	2016-2017	Rögle BK	19	1	4	5	0.26	4	-3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Statistics - AHL Defensemen u19 Season PPG Since 2000 (10+ Games)

PLAYER STATS

#	PLAYER	SEASON	TEAM	GP	G	A	TP	PPG	PIM	+/-
1.	Timothy Liljegren (D)	2017-2018	Toronto Marlies	29	1	11	12	0.41	12	12
2.	Robert Hägg (D)	2013-2014	Adirondack Phantoms	10	1	3	4	0.40	10	1
3.	Slava Voynov (D)	2008-2009	Manchester Monarchs	61	8	15	23	0.38	46	-3
4.	Dylan Labbé (D)	2013-2014	Iowa Wild	11	1	2	3	0.27	4	-3
5.	Oliver Kylington (D)	2015-2016	Stockton Heat	47	5	7	12	0.26	14	-15
6.	Hampus Lindholm (D)	2012-2013	Norfolk Admirals	44	1	10	11	0.25	16	5
7.	Morgan Rielly (D)	2012-2013	Toronto Marlies	14	1	2	3	0.21	0	-1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So you have stats from 2 seasons in the SHL that make up a grand total of 38 games, and another season with 12 points and one goal. So no, I dont really want to talk about stats. Using SHL stats now and saying theyre historic is pretty disingenuous as well, young guys have been breaking records and putting up historic numbers since the KHL was formed. Its the same reason why Axel Holmstrom had a historic playoff. That league has gotten significatly easier for young guys to play in because other talent is gone to Russia now

Your SHL stats are basically a list of 4 or 5 out of about 7 or so Swedish dmen that have been decently hyped since the KHL started.

Once again, I'm not saying he doesnt have potential but stats from 19 game seasons arent going to convince me of much at all

 

[Pavels Dog]

While we are comparing Brannstrom and Liljegren...

SHL 2017-18

Erik Brännström (D)

HV71

40

1

11

12

0.30

20

-9

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

AHL 2017-18

Timothy Liljegren (D)

Toronto Marlies

29

1

11

12

0.41

12

12

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I think we can all agree that the AHL is a much tougher league for an 18 year old Swedish d-man to adjust to and play in. Both have 1g 11a and 12pts, except Liljegren has played 11 less games.

Difference between a guy that’s a later bloomer and one who has been playing against men for years and was hyped as a top 3 pick a year before the draft.

In terms of development I think Brannstrom is doing quite well. Almost double his PPG in the SHL compared to last year. Similar PPG to Karlsson who was also undersized.
I also don’t see playing more games as a negative. More wear and tear, more experience gained. Liljegren has missed a lot of time and most signs indicate his PPG will drop further and further the more games he plays (those early 4 points in 5 games still make up 33% of his total production).
Story of Liljegren’s career so far. Small number of games, good PPG. Who knows how he’d handle a 60+ Game grind in a pro league.

 

[Halla]

Oh come on Timothy is the only prospect I'm this critical on. How many times do I have to say it before you guys stop beating the same drum? Anytime anyone says something poor about their own teams prospect on here it's assumed that they aren't a fan and/or a troll. Get over it, some fans aren't as high on our prospects as you are.


It seems like you're the one stat watching as you post an updated chart every time he gets 1 point.

no, you just seem silly when you point out his lack of goals. like thats the most important thing an 18 year old rookie dman in the AHL should be worried about.

 

[Halla]

So you have stats from 2 seasons in the SHL that make up a grand total of 38 games, and another season with 12 points and one goal. So no, I dont really want to talk about stats. Using SHL stats now and saying theyre historic is pretty disingenuous as well, young guys have been breaking records and putting up historic numbers since the KHL was formed. Its the same reason why Axel Holmstrom had a historic playoff. That league has gotten significatly easier for young guys to play in because other talent is gone to Russia now

Your SHL stats are basically a list of 4 or 5 out of about 7 or so Swedish dmen that have been decently hyped since the KHL started.

Once again, I'm not saying he doesnt have potential but stats from 19 game seasons arent going to convince me of much at all

why are you even here newf? go grab a blackhorse and watch old habs highlights from when they werent a dumpster fire

 

[DieTomi]

no, you just seem silly when you point out his lack of goals. like thats the most important thing an 18 year old rookie dman in the AHL should be worried about.

I pointed out his lack of goals once. And it's not the fact he's not scoring that worries me, it's the fact he's not getting very many shots through to the net for a so-called offensive defenseman. Earlier in the season there were games I went to where he put up 3-4 shots and looked a constant threat in the o-zone, now he's having trouble making things happen and getting shots through and it's effecting his point totals. Before the WJC he was averaging 1.88 shots/game and 0.53 points/game, since the WJC he's been averaging 1.07 shots/game and 0.23 points/game. Don't know if his focus has shifted to other parts of his game, because he has been much better in his own zone lately, but the fact his offensive game has dropped off to the eye test and with the stats does worry me about his offensive production at the next level.

 

[besser]

Woah seems with the way you leaf fans talk about liljegren .... looks like you got yourselves a top 5 nhl number 1 defender!

 

[AppsSyl]

Woah seems with the way you leaf fans talk about liljegren .... looks like you got yourselves a top 5 nhl number 1 defender!

No not a top 5 NHL number 1 defender, but a player that I would much rather have in my system as my top ranked D prospect than Olli Juolevi. What pick did you draft him again? Who were some of the other D you passed on in that draft?