Rantanen Vs Marner

[NarcoPolo]

Yep, bunch of subjective stuff such as statistics and height.

[mod] I'm obviously referring to things like skill, hockey IQ, defensive play, etc. Weak argument regardless. Using your logic Josh bailey is better than Marner, perhaps even better than Matthews.

 

[Hagged]

Honestly hagged you are the most pessimistic guy around here when it comes to finnish players. Last year you said that laine likely wouldnt get even 5 points more (about 50 games into the season) then went on a streak to reach ppg untill games 61. Now you are saying even an ahl player would have rantanens numbers next to mackinnon...you do realize rants is the first nhl player to post such numbers next to mackinnon????

Why are you putting down finnish players so much ?

The only way your reasoning works here is if you consider rantanen an ahl player as he was ppg+ in ahl ^^

Well I was wrong about Laine, he became an offensive star. I did have my doubts as he seemed to be more or less riding the coat tails of Scheifele throughout his rookie season.

I often do think a finnish player busts or continues to suck. But I have been more often right than wrong about finnish prospects busting.

Also, it's not like it's all negative. I did think that Barkov would succeed in becoming one of NHL's premier defensive centers. Wrong about his offensive ceiling though, as I expected 40 points in his prime. But I never doubted him becoming an NHL star level player.

 

[tony d]

Rantanen for me.

 

[LeafGrief]

-Rantanen did extreme well, while Mackinnon were injured.

-Rantanen were Avs leading scorer last year.. (You know that Avs scored total of 166 goals last year.. leafs scored ~80 more)

How's Leafs narrative for Nylander being clearly better than Rantanen going on?

Post the numbers of Rantanen without Mackinnon. I believe that he did well, but I want to see numbers.

Rantanen had 38 points last year. Marner had 61. I'm well aware of how bad the Avs were last year. The Leafs scored 80 more goals because players like Matthews, Marner, and Nylander were better than Mackinnon and Rantanen last year. Good on the Avs top line for literally doubling their production. I don't have any problem saying that Rantanen or Mackinnon have been better than Marner or Matthews this year. Just like you shouldn't have any problem saying they were worse last year.

I fell just fine about Nylander versus Rantanen conversations. I think it's pretty hilarious that Rantanen supporters would argue for him while he's 23 points behind Nylander and then declare the case closed when he's 23 points ahead.

 

[M2Beezy]

Could go either way SUPER close. Ive gone back in forth between the two for a while. Atm i go with Rantanen

 

[BleedWell]

Post the numbers of Rantanen without Mackinnon. I believe that he did well, but I want to see numbers.

Rantanen had 38 points last year. Marner had 61. I'm well aware of how bad the Avs were last year. The Leafs scored 80 more goals because players like Matthews, Marner, and Nylander were better than Mackinnon and Rantanen last year. Good on the Avs top line for literally doubling their production. I don't have any problem saying that Rantanen or Mackinnon have been better than Marner or Matthews this year. Just like you shouldn't have any problem saying they were worse last year.

I fell just fine about Nylander versus Rantanen conversations. I think it's pretty hilarious that Rantanen supporters would argue for him while he's 23 points behind Nylander and then declare the case closed when he's 23 points ahead.

Rantanen had six points in eight games when MacKinnon was out.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Doesn’t Marner create more offense on his own whereas Rantanen somewhat runs off of MacKinnon?

 

[X66]

Still leaning slightly towards Marner, this is more of a Babcock thing though because he doesn't put Marner in the position that a lot of other stars are in around the league.

Rantanen has had a stellar season and no one can or should take that way from him, but their positions to succeed are way different IMHO.

Marner is one of the best PP players in the entire NHL, but Babcock controls his(and all players) PP time, Marner only gets 2:11 seconds of PP time a game per average. Rantanen is getting 3:44, that's pretty significant. Wouldn't surprise me if Marner's numbers took a big shot up if you gave him another minute and half on the PP.

There is no doubt though that Rantanen has had the better season, but they're two different players in two completely different situations and roles.

I wonder if we will ever see Matthews with Marner, but that's now how Babcock operates, he wants Marner driving his own line, which I totally get. He's carried every lines he's ever been on for the Leafs.

 

[goblin3]

Doesn’t Marner create more offense on his own whereas Rantanen somewhat runs off of MacKinnon?

Even if it was true, does it really matter? It's hard to find good chemistry for your superstar and it looks like Rantanen and MacKinnon will be one of the best dynamic duos for the foreseeable future.

 

[Tralfamadore]

Rantanen AIEC

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Even if it was true, does it really matter? It's hard to find good chemistry for your superstar and it looks like Rantanen and MacKinnon will be one of the best dynamic duos for the foreseeable future.

It certainly does matter. If Im a GM looking to trade for one of these two that is definitely coming into play whether Rantanen can repeat his numbers without MacKinnon. Marner had the edge in that category, guy scores on the fourth line

 

[Narow]

Well I was wrong about Laine, he became an offensive star. I did have my doubts as he seemed to be more or less riding the coat tails of Scheifele throughout his rookie season.

I often do think a finnish player busts or continues to suck. But I have been more often right than wrong about finnish prospects busting.

Also, it's not like it's all negative. I did think that Barkov would succeed in becoming one of NHL's premier defensive centers. Wrong about his offensive ceiling though, as I expected 40 points in his prime. But I never doubted him becoming an NHL star level player.

Well anyways i hope one day to see some positivity (when its deserved ofcourse) from you. Looking forward to that

 

[Plural]

I voted for Marner, however the way I see it Leafs fans are happy with him and Avalanche fans are happy with Rantanen. So why don't we leave it at that.

But when the Leafs player is objectively better it's perfectly fine to do these polls? Hmm...

 

[Plural]

I think the poll is closer than point totals this year indicate. I'd probably pick Rants for now cause being so much over PPG this far in to season is great, MacKinnon or not.

 

[cgf]

Doesn’t Marner create more offense on his own whereas Rantanen somewhat runs off of MacKinnon?

This season or in general? Cause Rantanen has had to limit his game somewhat this season and isn't holding onto the puck for as long, or shooting as much, as he did previously. It's why there's a subset of avs fans that can't wait until we have the depth to give Mikko his own scoring line.

All in all Marner is shiftier, while Mikko is more like Voracek & Wheeler, using his length instead of quickness to dangle the puck away from defenders; but both have just ridiculous hands & creativity.

Rantanen had six points in eight games when MacKinnon was out.

Worth pointing out the team's scoring dropped to ~2 goals a game and the PP to 7% effectiveness while MacK was out. So Mikko was almost literally the only one still scoring for us without MacK.

Post the numbers of Rantanen without Mackinnon. I believe that he did well, but I want to see numbers.

Rantanen had 38 points last year. Marner had 61. I'm well aware of how bad the Avs were last year. The Leafs scored 80 more goals because players like Matthews, Marner, and Nylander were better than Mackinnon and Rantanen last year. Good on the Avs top line for literally doubling their production. I don't have any problem saying that Rantanen or Mackinnon have been better than Marner or Matthews this year. Just like you shouldn't have any problem saying they were worse last year.

I fell just fine about Nylander versus Rantanen conversations. I think it's pretty hilarious that Rantanen supporters would argue for him while he's 23 points behind Nylander and then declare the case closed when he's 23 points ahead.

Who's declaring it case closed? Many avs fans still put Mikko, Aho, Marner, Nylander & Ehlers in the same tier even if Mikko is currently having the best season of that group

 

[42]

Definitely Rantanen.

 

[LeafsNation75]

But when the Leafs player is objectively better it's perfectly fine to do these polls? Hmm...

Maybe I'm wrong but most of the time when a Leafs player is selected as an option in one of these polls the player they are up against has better numbers, just like the way Rantanen does. So aren't the people are hoping to see the Leafs player lose based on that alone? That's why I stand behind what I said earlier that Leafs fans are happy with Marner and Avalanche fans are happy with Rantanen.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Rant so far this year but I bet Marner will have a better play off ppg than Rants. Avs are making the dance!!!

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Would be interested in what Marner's statline would look like with the extra 2:30 of aTOI.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Would be interested in what Marner's statline would look like with the extra 2:30 of aTOI.

I wouldn't be surprised if Marner has the best ppg of all the Leafs in the playoffs. Kid has always been a big game player.

 

[kelsier]

The Rantanen vs Nylander poll was much better! Re-run anyone?

 

[LeafGrief]

Who's declaring it case closed? Many avs fans still put Mikko, Aho, Marner, Nylander & Ehlers in the same tier even if Mikko is currently having the best season of that group

That seems like a very reasonable standpoint to me, I agree wholeheartedly. Perhaps it was simply poor phrasing on his part, but it seemed to me that Balthazar wasn't quite as reasonable in post #7 on the first page.

 

[cgf]

That seems like a very reasonable standpoint to me, I agree wholeheartedly. Perhaps it was simply poor phrasing on his part, but it seemed to me that Balthazar wasn't quite as reasonable in post #7 on the first page.

Can't speak for Balthazar, we but heads enough on our own board

 

[avsfan09]

Would be interested in what Marner's statline would look like with the extra 2:30 of aTOI.

Things aren't black and white. Let's say he gets those minutes and produces at Rantanens level. Does this mean he's equal? Or do things like Rantanen being on Mackinnon's line and that being the only line on the Avs worth shutting down get to be brought up? Teams game plan to shutdown Mack and Rantanen. Obviously they fail quite often but the leafs depth and deployment is also a factor.

That said I think Marner is a star and they are likely very close. I think it comes down to whether you prefer Mikkos size advantage or Marners shiftiness/elusiveness(bit Kane like IMO) when creating offense. Both have advantages and disadvantages but I think they are close enough IQ wise, skillwise(Marner in hands, Rantanen shot/puck protection) to call the rest of it a wash.

 

[boredmale]

Is there even one logical reason to pick Marner over Rantanen? Skill? No. Size? No. Defensive play? No. Hockey IQ? No. Age? No.

What then?

I say this as somebody who would give the edge to Rantanen but the question to me is if Rantanen is the product is his linemate, while in the case of Marner he seems to generate his own offense so if you plopped both of them onto the exact same roster who would you get maximum performance out of