Larry Brooks: Rangers will be selling

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No, because even in those successful years the system is overly reliant on insane goaltending to produce the results. We still faced 30+ shots a game even with those good teams, and Hank has seen more high danger shot attempts than any goaltender in the last 5 years

So you're saying that the Rangers' best player was forced to be the Rangers' best player? I just get a kick out of this board sometimes. Go read some of the threads when Tortorella got canned and AV was named coach. People brought up how his style could bring defensive issues - the response, in spades, was "Thats what we have Lundqvist for."

I am lauding those 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 teams for their depth, but the only truly elite player they had on those squads was the goaltender.

 

[GAGLine]

i agree with that, NYR
still feeling the costs of the MSL, Yandle and E.Staal deals;
the Clowe deal still bothers me too
(and some bad calls with UDFA types, esp Marchessault, also anyone else notice Joly has 33 G in 34 ECHL GP, while Chapie is even worse than Haggerty (who at least was turned into Raanta ...)

There was nothing we could do about JAM. He decided to sign elsewhere. It happens. It still took him a lot of years to even get to the NHL.

IIRC, we tried to sign him to an ELC, but he chose to sign an AHL deal with Hartford, where he played in 2011-12. He then signed an ELC with Columbus, where he played 2 NHL games in a year and a half before being traded to Tampa. He spent the rest of that year and all but 2 games of the following year in the AHL. Finally in 2015-16, he played 45 games with Tampa, scoring 18 points. He then signed as a Group 6 UFA with Florida, where he broke out, scoring 30 goals and 51 points in 75 games. Florida then left him unprotected and now he has 45 points in 45 games with Vegas and a new 36 mil contract.

We were 4 teams ago and 5 years away from him proving that he could play in the NHL. It's a great story for JAM, but the Rangers didn't make a mistake with him. We can't force players to sign on the dotted line.

 

[Trxjw]

That’s actually a really good description of him, but that versatility is why I like him so much. He’s doing well in offensive minutes for BU, and he did great in a defensice role for Canada at the WJC. There was a ton of draft day hype that probably over-inflated his value, but I think he has the tools to turn into a really solid second pairing guy or at least a low-end top pairing guy.

I certainly think he's a good prospect, and there's definitely potential there, but I agree that there might be a bit too much pumping of the tires going on with him. There was a little bit too much hype coming from the BCHL in his draft year, IMO. He and Jost got billed as high end prospects who were coming out of a lower-tier league, and neither of them have really wowed me. They're good prospects and should be good players, but I think folks got a bit over zealous with them.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

To each their own.

Never said I didn’t want McDonagh. Nor do I hate him. At this stage, at his age, I am looking at him objectively for what he is. Their are a lot of defenseman i would consider having over him outside of the top 15 listed. He is not some surefire Number 1 imo.

There are guys outside of that range who I would rather have as well for age/salary purposes alone.

As far as what those players can handle both this year and next at the NHL level? I don't think there are even 15 guys I'd take over McD.

Not to mention that hes been a very productive playoff performer while handling top pair minutes.

 

[Edge]

Looking at the list and I'd comfortably put McD in about the 12-15 range.

Some guys have better name recognition, some guys are flashier, some have more long-term potential for tomorrow, some have longer reputations but I wouldn't trade for McD at this point, some are more physical, some have more offense, etc.

But I have to admit that I kind of like the combo of McD's defense, skating, age, contract, consistency, playoff experience, leadership, etc.

 

[DanielBrassard]

To each their own.

Never said I didn’t want McDonagh. Nor do I hate him. At this stage, at his age, I am looking at him objectively for what he is. Their are a lot of defenseman i would consider having over him outside of the top 15 listed. He is not some surefire Number 1 imo.

What are you basing the list on? Are you looking at stats, watching game film, etc.

 

[RGY]

What are you basing the list on? Are you looking at stats, watching game film, etc.

Its a combination of those things. I watch a ton of hockey outside of the Rangers just as an avid fan who has had the center ice package for years.

Again, I like Mac, but im trying to be honest with him and this team at this point in time moving forward. Two years ago id say he is easily top 10 for me. But i just see his game trending downward. His decision making is poor offensively. Very poor. And im not saying it is trending in an expedited fashion, but weighing those things and his age i dont see him in the top 15. Or even top 20.

 

[DundeeRanger]

Yeah, OK. "He's a finisher"...

Meanwhile he has literally been gifted goals this year and yet has only 15 goals and 25 points... Finisher my ass

OK I consider myself corrected. I am still allowed to like him as a player despite his failings?

 

[DundeeRanger]

No, because even in those successful years the system is overly reliant on insane goaltending to produce the results. We still faced 30+ shots a game even with those good teams, and Hank has seen more high danger shot attempts than any goaltender in the last 5 years

Great post. As I've said elsewhere until Hank stops seeing as much rubber as a tyre salesman, which makes us reliant on him standing on his head almost nightly, I cannot see things changing. What's worrying this year is a lot of the high danger shots are coming from takeaways and missed passes in our zone.

 

[DundeeRanger]

So you're saying that the Rangers' best player was forced to be the Rangers' best player? I just get a kick out of this board sometimes. Go read some of the threads when Tortorella got canned and AV was named coach. People brought up how his style could bring defensive issues - the response, in spades, was "Thats what we have Lundqvist for."

I am lauding those 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 teams for their depth, but the only truly elite player they had on those squads was the goaltender.

They stopped shots too.

 

[McRanger]

AV's system works well when a team has its foot on the pedal. If you sit back in man-to-man coverage it becomes a problem. The longer you're in the zone running around the more likely you are going to wear out or lose your assignment. The Rangers had those problems even when they went deep in the playoffs, the turtling and the sitting on leads.

Now that the team can't even find the pedal those problems are amplified massively.

Comparing this team to the team 4-5 seasons ago doesn't make much sense.

 

[eco's bones]

AV's system works well when a team has its foot on the pedal. If you sit back in man-to-man coverage it becomes a problem. The longer you're in the zone running around the more likely you are going to wear out or lose your assignment. The Rangers had those problems even when they went deep in the playoffs, the turtling and the sitting on leads.

Now that the team can't even find the pedal those problems are amplified massively.

Comparing this team to the team 4-5 seasons ago doesn't make much sense.

It works when the Rangers are aggressively pushing the pace--rolling four lines and a hard forecheck. The team we have now is very passive. It's aged and lost some speed. The lines don't roll nearly as well.

 

[RangerBlues]

Make moves sooner than later.
Dont wait.
Pull a big deal now to gain a larger one later on.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Never in a million years would that happen, nor should it. The biggest reason the Rangers lack depth now is because Sather sacrificed the future between 2012-2016 for one more shot at glory. Thats one of the downsides of having an old man running things.

And he’s not leaving!

 

[GAGLine]

And he’s not leaving!

Doesn't matter since he isn't the one calling the shots.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Doesn't matter since he isn't the one calling the shots.

Hope not

 

[RangerBlues]

Rangers have plenty of debt and interchangeable parts.
They need superstar dynamic talent.

 

[RangerBlues]

In Slats we trust!

 

[McRanger]

It works when the Rangers are aggressively pushing the pace--rolling four lines and a hard forecheck. The team we have now is very passive. It's aged and lost some speed. The lines don't roll nearly as well.

The team is also less receptive to the coach. And that's not a knock on AV, that happens to literally every coach at some point.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

good we need as many first round picks we can get this season if they want to build a future contender for years to come.

 

[eco's bones]

The team is also less receptive to the coach. And that's not a knock on AV, that happens to literally every coach at some point.

It may well be the case that what you're saying has happened. I don't think this is all on AV though--I think this has been coming. A gradual decline at least since we were knocked off by the Lightning the year after we went to the finals. FWIW if we're getting rid of AV I'd rather do it at the end of the season. To take our time then finding the next guy to coach the team. I'd rather not have the coaching job go to one of the assistants and that's more likely to happen if they interim coach the last 10, 15, 20 games.

A clean start with someone new would be much better in my eyes. All they need to do is make sure they get someone good.

 

[Beacon]

So, what do we do with Lundqvist? He isn't going to be happy to play on a rebuild team to end his career.

Retain some salary and trade him to a team with poor goaltending?

Hank for Connor Hellebuyck straight up? Fits perfectly under their cap.

Maybe McDonagh+Lundqvist for Hell+Trouba and a cap dump (Enstrom?).

 

[bl02]

Hope not

Make that two I hope Nots

 

[bl02]

The team is also less receptive to the coach. And that's not a knock on AV, that happens to literally every coach at some point.

Pretty much this. And guaranteed it will happen to the next coach of this team. Actually I am quite sure it will happen way before 4-5 years. Just hope we don't get the coaching carousel we experienced in the late 90's early 2000's (pretty much 4 coaches in 4 years). That type of instability and poor coaching choices has to be avoided big time.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Seems to be a bit of chatter amongst Hawks fans about Quenville getting stale there. Wouldn't mind him here in NY putting his stamp on the next core of talent.