Larry Brooks: Rangers will be selling

[DundeeRanger]

I'll take 31 better D-men than McD for 400....

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

One Nashville fan seemed receptive to Zucc for Fabbro and a 1st. He isn’t Poile, but maybe there’s a chance, ya know with the whole prior Greeley connection and all

Thats about as fair a deal as there is for Zucc.

Would do it yesterday.

 

[NYR Viper]

Fabbro + 1st would be nice.

 

[eco's bones]

Vesey has underachieved to my expectations but 10 goals and 17 points mostly getting 3rd-4th line minutes for $925K is not bad value. He simply hasn't stepped up enough to earn a big pay day and somewhere between 1.2 and 1.5 is what I see him getting.

I have more issues with the top 6 than the bottom 6. Zuccarello IMO is still our best forward. Most every other team in the NHL has a forward at least as good as him and a number of teams have multiple players as good or better. When some talk about bad players--what about bad contracts? To me Nash is still a good player but his contract is very bad. We've not nearly gotten enough value from him out of it.

 

[DundeeRanger]

On Nash, I think he's a victim of AVs system this season . Still think with a few good bounces his instinct in front of goal is great . Just need our playmakers to play . He's a finisher .

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Right. I just think the whole thing is backwards.

IMO, the main issue with the team is the coach and the system, not the personnel. I'd address one before the other.

But hey, what do I know.

EDIT - This isn't to mean that the personnel is not an issue, but I do believe it is exacerbated by the coach.

Even though AV produced arguably the best back to back seasons in this organization's history when he had an actual deep roster to work with, I am going to move past this type of argument that has been beaten to death.

Lets talk about this "whole thing being backwards." The situations with Nash, Grabner, Zuccarello, and McDonagh are more time bound. Nash and Grabner need to be moved due to their UFA status and Zuccarello and McDonagh can have their values maximized. More importantly, the returns on this sale are going to chart the organization's course for the next several years. Why wouldnt we wait to see what the returns even look like before moving on the coach? Dare I say AV could still be the right man for the job as he was in 2014 and 2015? I know, I know, BLASPHEMY.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

There's really no reason to trade Vesey. We aren't going to get a lot in return for him and he isn't going to cost much to re-sign. We might as well hang onto him for a couple more years and see if he can find his niche.

What trade value does Vesey even have? He's a bottom 6 plug players trying to find his way. Every team has one of those. Years and years and years of trade proposals and we are finally faced with a real world situation where the players we trade will have to be coveted around the rest of the league.

 

[Tawnos]

There aren’t 15 better D in the NHL than McDonagh, much less 31.

 

[FJB]

Get as many pics as possible from roster players and don't pull a Brendl.

 

[silverfish]

never mind.

 

[Trxjw]

One Nashville fan seemed receptive to Zucc for Fabbro and a 1st. He isn’t Poile, but maybe there’s a chance, ya know with the whole prior Greeley connection and all

I'm not crazy about Fabbro, but I'm not sure Nashville has anyone other than Tolvanen who is in the right ballpark.

 

[haveandare]

Even though AV produced arguably the best back to back seasons in this organization's history when he had an actual deep roster to work with, I am going to move past this type of argument that has been beaten to death.

Lets talk about this "whole thing being backwards." The situations with Nash, Grabner, Zuccarello, and McDonagh are more time bound. Nash and Grabner need to be moved due to their UFA status and Zuccarello and McDonagh can have their values maximized. More importantly, the returns on this sale are going to chart the organization's course for the next several years. Why wouldnt we wait to see what the returns even look like before moving on the coach? Dare I say AV could still be the right man for the job as he was in 2014 and 2015? I know, I know, BLASPHEMY.

Imo, even if you totally disregard any of the arguments about his missteps with player usage, system design, etc, it's pretty clear he's lost the team to a significant degree. That's just something that happens over time in the league with 99% of coaches. Guys like Babcock are the exception, not the rule. The team comes out cold nearly every game, they look confused on the ice a lot of the time, they play with little to no fire across the board including guys that have a history of playing that way.

Imo, both moves should sync up. If we're turning over a significant part of the roster to start a new era of NYR hockey, it's a good time to get a new coach too and really start with a clean slate. I'd keep the roster turnover somewhat minimal until we know where guys stand with a new coach. McD and Zucc, if excellent deals are there, can be moved now while their value is sky high. Nash and Grabner are rentals and should be rented. I'd hold off on most everyone else to see how they look with a new coach unless you get a can't miss offer. Smith is a prime example - the guy used to be excellent at denying clean entries, now AV's system doesn't really call for that much so he's far less effective.

 

[haveandare]

I'm not crazy about Fabbro, but I'm not sure Nashville has anyone other than Tolvanen who is in the right ballpark.

I'd prefer Tolvanen by a lot, but Fabbro seems to be a solid prospect from what little I know about him. What about him turns you off?

 

[True Blue]

On Nash, I think he's a victim of AVs system this season . Still think with a few good bounces his instinct in front of goal is great . Just need our playmakers to play . He's a finisher .

Except he hasn't been, really outside of one fantastic regular season.

 

[True Blue]

Even though AV produced arguably the best back to back seasons in this organization's history when he had an actual deep roster to work with, I am going to move past this type of argument that has been beaten to death.

Just out of curiosity, based on what criteria do you make such a statement?

Why wouldnt we wait to see what the returns even look like before moving on the coach?

If the belief that his system has produced disastrous defensive play and only seems to work when allowed to play pond hockey, why WOULD you bring him back?

 

[DundeeRanger]

Except he hasn't been, really outside of one fantastic regular season.

That's why I asked about the system issue . Agree his production is not where I'd like it or should be but I don't doubt his ability .

 

[JayMan82]

Actually its very plausible to find 31 better defensemen than him over the last three years (including this season).

Still waiting for that list of 31 (despite his holes this year)...

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Just out of curiosity, based on what criteria do you make such a statement?

If the belief that his system has produced disastrous defensive play and only seems to work when allowed to play pond hockey, why WOULD you bring him back?

Results. How far do you have to go back to find back to back Ranger seasons that consisted of a Stanley Cup Finals appearance followed by being the best regular season team in the league? Do back to back seasons even exist like that in the franchise's history?

As for your second point, thats the belief of a lot of people on this board - it doesn't look like the belief of Rangers management who extended AV and is now selling off parts of the core personnel. Its tough to pin all the issues on one or two things. But in the face of a roster whose depth has crumbled significantly since 2015 and evidence that things DID work under AV with a deeper roster, I just think its a flimsy argument. I mean, you basically have to suspend reality and pretend that nothing has worked under AV over the last 5 seasons, and thats just not true.

 

[McRanger]

That's why I asked about the system issue . Agree his production is not where I'd like it or should be but I don't doubt his ability .

Its not the system its Nash. AV isn't responsible for Nash not being healthy often enough.

 

[DundeeRanger]

Its not the system its Nash. AV isn't responsible for Nash not being healthy often enough.

Fair point on Nashs health . But is that a by product of how he's being used .

I'm outing myself as a Nash apologist here .

 

[Miamipuck]

Still waiting for that list of 31 (despite his holes this year)...

Why bother you're liable to get a list with EK on it 31 times.

 

[DundeeRanger]

Results. How far do you have to go back to find back to back Ranger seasons that consisted of a Stanley Cup Finals appearance followed by being the best regular season team in the league? Do back to back seasons even exist like that in the franchise's history?

As for your second point, thats the belief of a lot of people on this board - it doesn't look like the belief of Rangers management who extended AV and is now selling off parts of the core personnel. Its tough to pin all the issues on one or two things. But in the face of a roster whose depth has crumbled significantly since 2015 and evidence that things DID work under AV with a deeper roster, I just think its a flimsy argument. I mean, you basically have to suspend reality and pretend that nothing has worked under AV over the last 5 seasons, and thats just not true.

AV stays and Gorton gets the bullet?

 

[Trxjw]

I'd prefer Tolvanen by a lot, but Fabbro seems to be a solid prospect from what little I know about him. What about him turns you off?

He's definitely a solid prospect. I didn't mean to disparage him by any means. My concern with him is that he's a kid who is billed to be almost the total package, but I've yet to see a dominant game from him. Now, I certainly haven't seen every game he's played in the last two years, but in the ones I have seen he seems to be able to operate at a high level on one side of the puck or the other. He can wow you offensively, or he can be steady and efficient defensively. I have yet to see him do both.

But again, like I said, I haven't seen every game he's played, so my opinion is just that. I also said similar things about Ryan McDonagh and look how that turned out. If we got him and a 1st for Zucc, I'd certainly be comfortable with giving the deal the benefit of the doubt.

 

[haveandare]

He's definitely a solid prospect. I didn't mean to disparage him by any means. My concern with him is that he's a kid who is billed to be almost the total package, but I've yet to see a dominant game from him. Now, I certainly haven't seen every game he's played in the last two years, but in the ones I have seen he seems to be able to operate at a high level on one side of the puck or the other. He can wow you offensively, or he can be steady and efficient defensively. I have yet to see him do both.

But again, like I said, I haven't seen every game he's played, so my opinion is just that. I also said similar things about Ryan McDonagh and look how that turned out. If we got him and a 1st for Zucc, I'd certainly be comfortable with giving the deal the benefit of the doubt.

I've seen way less of him than you, so I'm not questioning your stance to suggest it's wrong, just genuinely curious.

 

[Griffinbw]

If Zucc or Nash is going to Nashville don’t be shocked if Aberg comes our way as an added prospect. Solid kid but nothing special