Euro: R16: England v Germany, 6/29/2021

[Shrimper]

I refuse to get my hopes up but god this feels good. SF min. Should be our goal now

 

[al secord]

Watching the reaction to winning from England fans and fans of other countries has helped me understand why so many people dislike the Leafs and our fans.

My favourite part about being a fan of both teams is, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. So relishing the moment is all that matters, when it comes to fandom.

 

[cgf]

But if England lost, the search for the ultimate excuse would be the story of the day

English isn't my first language, so maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are getting at. Are you referring to the way the english press looks for excuses when their NT has simply been outclassed?

 

[koyvoo]

I refuse to get my hopes up but god this feels good. SF min. Should be our goal now

Path of teams and semi and final at Wembley, England’s only goal should be lifting the trophy at this point.

 

[koyvoo]

My favourite part about being a fan of both teams is, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. So relishing the moment is all that matters, when it comes to fandom.

I do agree with this. Regardless of style, merit or anything. Winning feels much better than losing. Losing is painful, and the losing side will try to take any opportunity, now matter how far a reach to try to take that feeling away from you, but it only makes the feeling stronger. Even when their argument holds truth.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I see no reason why England shouldn't be able to win the Euro at this point. It's not like any uber-opponents are in the way. Italy? Spain? Belgium? No-one that England can't theoretically handle. Solid at the back, difference makers at the front opportunistically using the couple chances you get in a match. That's how you win tournaments.

 

[Rob]

Path of teams and semi and final at Wembley, England’s only goal should be lifting the trophy at this point.

I would say they should be happy with a second place finish.

 

[cgf]

I refuse to get my hopes up but god this feels good. SF min. Should be our goal now

At this point, the goal should be to win. You've got the talent to do it and a forgiving enough path for the manager to figure out his best 11 in time to pull it off. Not that any of the teams you could face en route to the final are pushovers, but you should be able to beat all of them.

 

[cgf]

I would say they should be happy with a second place finish.

Eh, that should be an acceptable result, but not a happy one. They shouldn't be outclassed by anyone from the other side of the bracket.

 

[koyvoo]

I don’t even think “should” beat them comes into play. All things considered, Any goal short of being champions for England would be a loser mentality.

 

[cgf]

My favourite part about being a fan of both teams is, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. So relishing the moment is all that matters, when it comes to fandom.

As evidenced by how many of us are happy for the poster you quoted...

 

[cgf]

I don’t even think “should” beat them comes into play. All things considered, Any goal short of being champions for England would be a loser mentality.

I hate that phrase, but it would certainly lack ambition.

 

[al secord]

English isn't my first language, so maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are getting at. Are you referring to the way the english press looks for excuses when their NT has simply been outclassed?

I'm referring to this thread. Where the english demise was greatly exaggerated. And the built in excuse from the "media" which hold no value in this thread, was everything but german inferiority . And any joy felt by english supporters would be considered arrogance. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

If they want to win someone other than sterling has to score. Sterling will at some point revert back to Sterling other guys have to step up. Kane scored today but he was awful for most of the match.

 

[koyvoo]

I hate that phrase, but it would certainly lack ambition.

Ya, maybe a harsh choice of words, but the mindset for them has to be to win it from here on in.

Not to take away from the teams with less stature, nor to suggest that the teams remaining with big stature are underestimating them, but England has to look at this right now and feel that only losing to Spain. Italy or Belgium would be acceptable, but not playing a tournament final at home and lose.

It’s a huge opportunity and they have to have the balls to believe they can take it.

 

[cgf]

I'm referring to this thread. Where the english demise was greatly exaggerated. And the built in excuse from the "media" which hold no value in this thread, was everything but german inferiority . And any joy felt by english supporters would be considered arrogance. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Are you talking about the pre-match jokes like my proposed 5-1 or D2M's suggestion for a 7-6? Or all of the england fans lamenting the lineup when it was leaked?

And I know your persecution complex won't like it, but you're just wrong about the bolded. Plenty of us are happy for a lot of the england fans on here...like robertmac43. Thinking you are silly for denying that this match could've gone either way, as the #s suggest, is very different from what you are claiming.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

“It’s coming home” bugs me lol

 

[al secord]

Are you talking about the pre-match jokes like my proposed 5-1 or D2M's suggestion for a 7-6? Or all of the england fans lamenting the lineup when it was leaked?

And I know your persecution complex won't like it, but you're just wrong about the bolded. Plenty of us are happy for a lot of the england fans on here...like robertmac43.

I think you used the wrong scottish canadian supporter as your only example

 

[al secord]

“It’s coming home” bugs me lol

Bugs me too. Usually get scored on at that point.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

A big issue for Germany is that this is the shortest turnaround time ever between tournaments. I doubt Flick can re-build the team in a year, so WC 2022 (assuming Germany will make it) is likely to be another disappointment.

 

[cgf]

I think you used the wrong scottish canadian supporter as your only example

that doesn't make your words any less wrong

 

[al secord]

Are you talking about the pre-match jokes like my proposed 5-1 or D2M's suggestion for a 7-6? Or all of the england fans lamenting the lineup when it was leaked?

And I know your persecution complex won't like it, but you're just wrong about the bolded. Plenty of us are happy for a lot of the england fans on here...like robertmac43. Thinking you are silly for denying that this match could've gone either way, as the #s suggest, is very different from what you are claiming.

I just think England were the better team. They were the better team. They proved that they were the better team. It wasn't Low's tactics, it was that they didn't have a good enough squad. Even with a ridiculously defensive squad, england were the overall better team.

 

[al secord]

that doesn't make your words any less wrong

Nice try.

 

[cgf]

A big issue for Germany is that this is the shortest turnaround time ever between tournaments. I doubt Flick can re-build the team in a year, so WC 2022 (assuming Germany will make it) is likely to be another disappointment.

That could be an issue, but if he builds on the current shape a lot of things get better just by integrating Baku so Joshua can play in the midfield instead of Kroos. The backline would still be a construction zone, but that one change would drastically enhance our front 7...give or take a Müller (& Gnabry/Werner) for Musiala/Wirtz swap.

Gnabry/Werner
Musiala/Wirtz - Havertz
Gosens - Kimmich - Goretzka - Baku
Uduokhai* - Mats* - Klostermann
ter Stegen

*Ginter / Süle / Tah / Kehrer / Torunarigha / Schlotterbeck​

I agree that we're unlikely to get everything sorted in time to win next summer...unless just everything goes our way, including Süle pulling a Boateng-under-Pep this season...but I don't mind going out when we've done the best our talent is capable of; that's why I celebrate 2002 & 2006-2010.

It's when we go out while having made things harder for ourselves with the tactics or team selection, that I get annoyed; like 2012 & 2016-present.

 

[cgf]

I just think England were the better team. They were the better team. They proved that they were the better team. It wasn't Low's tactics, it was that they didn't have a good enough squad. Even with a ridiculously defensive squad, england were the overall better team.

More talented roster, sure...but like the xG implies, the game could've gone either way & who was the better team is very debateable