Prospect Info: Prospects, Marlies and Others: 2015-2016

[Leafed]

Any word on Granberg? He should have been back by now.

Is he practicing? Is this another Lou move, keeping him on the IR before a decision can be made on someone like Marincin/Corrado?

Conditioning stint with the Marlies soon?

 

[LeafsTop6]

https://m.soundcloud.com/bnwt-podcast/season-1-episode-12-craig-button

Button gets into Neilsen and other prospects too, it's good. Buttons segment starts at about 51:04 in.

Nylander is total package.
Marner is an assassin.
Piccinich skilled but not high skilled.
Johnson is a nhl player.
Bracco gifted but needs work on his pace of play.
Nielsen very underrated due to late start in hockey. Will be complete package. Compared to Hutton.
Timashov needs work on skating and speed to be able to keep and create space.


Button talks a bit about size and how it's not that important, training and development.

thanks for the link, good breakdown

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

Next year I see the following prospects as sure-fire locks:

Nylander
Marner
Soshnikov
Johnson

JVR-Stamkos-Marner
Nylander-Kadri-Johnson
Winnik-Bozak-Lupul
Soshnikov-Spaling-Komarov

I think Kapenen could use another half year next year. And Brown's injury really sets him back unless he comes back on a tear.

It's a young man's league and it's exciting to have so many options going forward.

 

[X66]

Something tells me Nylander and Johnson will be linemates next season on the Leafs. Seem like a combo that is perfect for each other.

 

[ChrisCall]

https://m.soundcloud.com/bnwt-podcast/season-1-episode-12-craig-button

Button gets into Neilsen and other prospects too, it's good. Buttons segment starts at about 51:04 in.

Nylander is total package.
Marner is an assassin.
Piccinich skilled but not high skilled.
Johnson is a nhl player.
Bracco gifted but needs work on his pace of play.
Nielsen very underrated due to late start in hockey. Will be complete package. Compared to Hutton.
Timashov needs work on skating and speed to be able to keep and create space.


Button talks a bit about size and how it's not that important, training and development.

Great listen. Thanks a bunch.

I like buttons comments about Freddy, because man he has made some huge plays for the Marlies so far this year.

 

[Ovate]

Next year I see the following prospects as sure-fire locks:

Nylander
Marner
Soshnikov
Johnson

How do you see a guy who hasn't played a single game on North American ice as a lock for the NHL? No way he doesn't start in the AHL. Maybe he works his way up by the end of the season.

 

[RoadWarrior]

How do you see a guy who hasn't played a single game on North American ice as a lock for the NHL? No way he doesn't start in the AHL. Maybe he works his way up by the end of the season.

Because Button is a professional scout.

Basically he says that A.Johnson is an intelligent player with a great shot and finishing ability who's on a very steep development curve.

The leafs are desperate for goals so it makes sense.

 

[MadSnowman42]

I don't think Brown is waiver exempt next season

Yes, he is.

 

[saltming]

Great listen. Thanks a bunch.

I like buttons comments about Freddy, because man he has made some huge plays for the Marlies so far this year.

Agreed. His analysis of all the topics were pretty good imo, even what he had to say about Burke made me think about what I didn't really pay attention to, though Burke still hurt the organization imo.

 

[Canada4Gold]

How do you know it's broken if we don't know how they'd develop if they had a chance to be in the AHL?

if you had even bothered to read the very next line I told you how it's broken. It's not that certain players would surely develop better, we don't know how they would develop in other situations. It that that option of the AHL isn't there for all players.

The NHL executives who have a big say in where these players go are very smart people, most of the time they get it right, if they say a player is probably better off to be in the AHL he probably is, but that avenue isn't there for a bunch of player, which isn't fair to the group of players who perhaps would be better off if they were assigned there. That's how it's broken. There's a system which blocks off an avenue of development for a group of players until they're 20.

 

[OvenMittz*]

Because Button is a professional scout.

Basically he says that A.Johnson is an intelligent player with a great shot and finishing ability who's on a very steep development curve.

The leafs are desperate for goals so it makes sense.

No... we are not


We aren't desperate for anything right now lol. We are rebuilding. We won't fast forward any players development to help us in the interest of making our team score or win now, because we are rebuilding lol.

If he comes up its because he they feel he is physically/mentally ready, not because we are desperate for anything.

 

[Joey Hoser]

if you had even bothered to read the very next line I told you how it's broken. It's not that certain players would surely develop better, we don't know how they would develop in other situations. It that that option of the AHL isn't there for all players.

The NHL executives who have a big say in where these players go are very smart people, most of the time they get it right, if they say a player is probably better off to be in the AHL he probably is, but that avenue isn't there for a bunch of player, which isn't fair to the group of players who perhaps would be better off if they were assigned there. That's how it's broken. There's a system which blocks off an avenue of development for a group of players until they're 20.

All these factors were taken into consideration when the arrangement was structured in the first place. You haven't realized anything new here.

It's not about fairness to individuals, it's about keeping development leagues strong and viable for the sake of the business and the game. If fairness for individuals was the priority, a lot of things would be different. The NHL wouldn't have told McDavid he had to go play in ****in' Edmonton, for one.

You're just mad because it's not working out for our boy. Deal with it.

 

[Canada4Gold]

the system in place makes it possible for a player not to be able to go to the best place for his development(which will be the AHL for some players stuck in the CHL).

It doesn't have to be about fairness, it can be about player development. The system is place is not best for player development either. But yeah I bet nobody cares about player development either, who cares if we develop players properly.

It's got nothing to do with Marner specifically, lots of player have came before him, but because the conversation is being had now I guess you're just going to jump to incorrect conclusions.

and don't give me none of that McDavid has to go to Edmonton crap. It's not about which team has the best development and send them all there, it's about leagues. Edmonton has an AHL team as well, so if they had a prospect(not McDavid) who in their opinion would develop best in the AHL then that should be an option for them.

My point was I think the system is broken on the player development side. Of course you can't just go the other way and open it up completely because then it'll be broken on the CHL side with a mass exodus of prospects from the CHL to the AHL once drafted.

I think the proposal that every team can have 1 guy who would normally not be allowed to play in the AHL can play there as long as they were a 1st round pick and are in their draft+2 year. That's a fair compromise. The upper level early births(so they have a junior draft+2 year) have that option to go to the AHL to develop if their teams choose that avenue, however you're only seeing 5-10 of those guys leave the CHL per year, this year there would only be 6 teams that would have that option. So the vast majority of the upper level remains in the CHL.

 

[XxJammingxX]

Any word on Granberg? He should have been back by now.

Is he practicing? Is this another Lou move, keeping him on the IR before a decision can be made on someone like Marincin/Corrado?

Conditioning stint with the Marlies soon?

Would also like to know about him too.

Figure with him coming back, the big club will need to move a D soon..

 

[garyjones93]

I think the proposal that every team can have 1 guy who would normally not be allowed to play in the AHL can play there as long as they were a 1st round pick and are in their draft+2 year. That's a fair compromise. The upper level early births(so they have a junior draft+2 year) have that option to go to the AHL to develop if their teams choose that avenue, however you're only seeing 5-10 of those guys leave the CHL per year, this year there would only be 6 teams that would have that option. So the vast majority of the upper level remains in the CHL.

This is something I've been thinking they should do. Maybe the NHL team has to compensate the CHL team. Maybe they can take more than one but have to pay the team.

I don't know what should be done, but I agree with you for the development of the players and the game this should be something that is addressed.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Would also like to know about him too.

Figure with him coming back, the big club will need to move a D soon..

Well it was said he would need at least 4 months to rehab from the injury. I guess he needed more than that, since in two days it'll be 5 months.

He's a great bottom pairing defenseman, but with all of the other guys coming up (plus the recent claim of Corrado), he may be at a disadvantage now... Especially if that injury holds him back.

He may be on the trade block this year, along with Carrick. Babcock seems to prefer his other options, and both could be valuable add on chips in trades to playoff teams considering their cheap deals and NHL-readiness.

 

[burpsalot]

Why would the AHL want to pay for CHL players when they can just get players from every other league?

We should be clear here, the CHL is a business, and hockey players are people.

It should be up to the player (human) to decide whether he wants to stay in junior or pursue his career elsewhere, unless he has signed a contract compensating him appropriately.

Perhaps we'll see more Matthews going forward as the best prospects pack up and move where they retain more ownership to their own playing rights.

It would be the NHL paying the OHL as compensation for the player to leave their league early.

Yes the CHL is big business & if they didn't have the right or the ability to keep the just drafted players you might see OHL change the way they operate. Clubs might start signing half their players for free & the other half for a fee to help cover costs. Which would be a terrible road to go down.

The level of play in Tier II has plummeted in the last 10 years, some of that attributed to undeserving players in the league, who have "bought" their position through paid registrations & sponsorships to help support the clubs financial needs.

 

[Number13]

How do you see a guy who hasn't played a single game on North American ice as a lock for the NHL? No way he doesn't start in the AHL. Maybe he works his way up by the end of the season.

Wouldn't say he's a lock, but he has a damn good chance. He's been playing in Europe's best league against men, and he's been one of the best players in that league. Maybe a brief stint with the AHL is in order to acclimatize him to the NA ice, but with his tenacious playing style he might not need it.

 

[RoadWarrior]

No... we are not


We aren't desperate for anything right now lol. We are rebuilding. We won't fast forward any players development to help us in the interest of making our team score or win now, because we are rebuilding lol.

If he comes up its because he they feel he is physically/mentally ready, not because we are desperate for anything.

Johnson isn't a teenager. He's had 3 years of pro experience against grown men. He'll either crack the leafs lineup or head back to europe after a short stint in the AHL.

Rebuilding is great but if the leafs bury all their talent in the minors the fans and players will revolt especially when it's obvious that washed up slow vets can't score. The NHL already changed the draft lottery rules to further discourage this behaviour after what happened with Buffalo last year and their blatantly obvious tank.

The leafs can get away with tanking for this year but after drafting a Chychrun or Mathews the fans and players will be demanding a superior product.

At least half of the top talent drafted in any given draft year is drafted outside the first round. Finishing bottom 5 every year isn't necessary and there's no guarantee on the top pick.

With Hunter in the fold the leafs will be able to accelerate the rebuild by making smarter picks in the later rounds.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Johnson isn't a teenager. He's had 3 years of pro experience against grown men. He'll either crack the leafs lineup or head back to europe after a short stint in the AHL.

Rebuilding is great but if the leafs bury all their talent in the minors the league will come calling. The NHL already changed the draft lottery rules to further discourage this behaviour after what happened with Buffalo last year and their blatantly obvious tank.

he's not going to be buried in the AHL. If he goes there it'll be because the Leafs think he needs a little development or getting used to the smaller ice. He's not 24, he's 20.

If he's ready he'll be here, but given he's played on big ice his entire career it's likely he'll need a little transition period in the AHL to get used to the small ice.

Look at Loov, he's 22. But the Leafs have him down there, and nobody is screaming about how he's being buried and gonna go back to Sweden. Obvious Johnson is different from Loov, and could be a top 6 winger very soon, but development takes time, complaining about how a 20/21 year old 7th round draft pick might be in the AHL next year instead of the NHL is dumb. And no, me calling him a 7th round draft pick is not saying that's his talent level now before you attack me for saying that

 

[Ovate]

Wouldn't say he's a lock, but he has a damn good chance. He's been playing in Europe's best league against men, and he's been one of the best players in that league. Maybe a brief stint with the AHL is in order to acclimatize him to the NA ice, but with his tenacious playing style he might not need it.

Agreed, but the same thing could be said about Nylander, and he's spending a year and half in the AHL.

 

[RoadWarrior]

he's not going to be buried in the AHL. If he goes there it'll be because the Leafs think he needs a little development or getting used to the smaller ice. He's not 24, he's 20.

If he's ready he'll be here, but given he's played on big ice his entire career it's likely he'll need a little transition period in the AHL to get used to the small ice.

Look at Loov, he's 22. But the Leafs have him down there, and nobody is screaming about how he's being buried and gonna go back to Sweden. Obvious Johnson is different from Loov, and could be a top 6 winger very soon, but development takes time, complaining about how a 20/21 year old 7th round draft pick might be in the AHL next year instead of the NHL is dumb. And no, me calling him a 7th round draft pick is not saying that's his talent level now before you attack me for saying that

Johnson has nothing left to prove in the Swedish league which is arguably better than the AHL. Sure different ice surfaces but the good players will always adjust.

Comparing Loov to Johnson is apples and oranges. The only thing they have in common is their country of origin. Defencemen and goalies always take more time to develop.

Henrik Zetterberg was a 7th round pick and his numbers at the same age aren't substantially different from Johnson. I'm not saying Johnson is at that level in terms of creativity but he's got NHL skills.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Johnson has nothing left to prove in the Swedish league which is arguably better than the AHL. Sure different ice surfaces but the good players will always adjust.

Comparing Loov to Johnson is apples and oranges. The only thing they have in common is their country of origin. Defencemen and goalies always take more time to develop.

Henrik Zetterberg was a 7th round pick and his numbers at the same age aren't substantially different from Johnson. I'm not saying Johnson is at that level in terms of creativity but he's got NHL skills.

I'm not saying that Johnson will be going to the AHL, What I'm saying is the people running the Leafs know more about player development than me, if they determine Johnson needs time in the AHL then I'm going to defer to their knowledge and I'm not going to jump to conclusions that if a 21 year old doesn't make the NHL he's going to run back to Europe

That's you. You're the one who is pretending to know exactly what Johnson needs and pretending to know that if he doesn't get to make the NHL his first year over here as a 21 year old he's going to pick up his toys and leave back to Europe.

I used Loov as an example that a player not making the NHL at 21 isn't burying talent. Waivers is there to prohibit burying talent. To suggest a guy who is 21 and was drafted in the 7th round has absolutely nothing to learn at the AHL level is jumping to conclusions without having the proper knowledge. He might very wel make the NHL. Or he might not because the Leafs think he needs to learn on small ice a little. To act like he's going to go back to Europe if he doesn't make the NHL is dumb and uninformed.

 

[New Liskeard]

Because Button is a professional scout.

Basically he says that A.Johnson is an intelligent player with a great shot and finishing ability who's on a very steep development curve.

The leafs are desperate for goals so it makes sense.

Same Button that fought with JFJ and quit/got fired for arguing the UFA Sweede Fabian Brunnstrom was the second coming.

 

[Sonny21]

https://m.soundcloud.com/bnwt-podcast/season-1-episode-12-craig-button

Button gets into Neilsen and other prospects too, it's good. Buttons segment starts at about 51:04 in.

Nylander is total package.
Marner is an assassin.
Piccinich skilled but not high skilled.
Johnson is a nhl player.
Bracco gifted but needs work on his pace of play.
Nielsen very underrated due to late start in hockey. Will be complete package. Compared to Hutton.
Timashov needs work on skating and speed to be able to keep and create space.


Button talks a bit about size and how it's not that important, training and development.

Thanks, it was a good listen.