Prospects and Marlies Discussion - Gauthier to the Memorial Cup?

[mikebel111*]

Ross sent to the ECHL. Also, Valiev could join the Marlies since his season is over... they will make the decision today.

Probably will never happen with Dineen but it would be nice to see Finn and Valiev play instead of Marshall and Mikkelson

 

[Bullseye]

They already have Rodewald playing - how many CHL guys are they gonna stick in there with the playoffs still within striking distance?

Next season.

 

[kilgro]

Kyle Cicerella ‏@KyleTheReporter
William Nylander left last night's game in the third as precaution after being hit in face but isn't expected to miss anytime, says Dineen.

That's good news. Also apparently Devane is done for the year cus of a hip injury

 

[mikebel111*]

Thank God William is alright!

 

[Territory]

 

[Byron Bitz]

They already have Rodewald playing - how many CHL guys are they gonna stick in there with the playoffs still within striking distance?

Next season.

Valiev should get priority over Rodewald

 

[Bullseye]

Well there's the answer.

 

[showtime8]

Yeah, Frattin should get one last NHL shot in our organization next season.

We need to put him in a role to succeed though. Maybe he could the right winger for JVR, and Kadri?

JVR - Kadri - Frattin
Leivo - Holland...... etc

I really like Frattin with the Leafs next year.

I'm not sure what fits better for him. I think that Leivo would look good with Kadri and JVR and Frattin with Holland based on the way that they can protect the puck. They would need another guy on that line with speed though. A guy like Kreider would be perfect.

But the mentality of promoting guys through the system is the first step that this organization has to take. It gives players that are drafted in the organization some hope and a clear vision into what is expected.

I'd love for the team to keep Nylander at the wing for his career with the Leafs. He'll be able to make more of his plays on the wing, have less responsibility on the ice and be able to showcase his playmaking ability a lot more. I'd like him to avoid going up against Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, etc. for a full year and chasing the play if he were to lose the draw. Instead he can cheat a bit at the point.

 

[showtime8]

Valiev should get priority over Rodewald

Different positions.

But he might play 1 game this year. 6 games remaining and in a playoff push, but it's very likely that he could play in 1 of the 3 consecutive games to finish off the season. I'd put him in on the friday against Milwaukee.

 

[IBeL34f]

I really like Frattin with the Leafs next year.

I'm not sure what fits better for him. I think that Leivo would look good with Kadri and JVR and Frattin with Holland based on the way that they can protect the puck. They would need another guy on that line with speed though. A guy like Kreider would be perfect.

But the mentality of promoting guys through the system is the first step that this organization has to take. It gives players that are drafted in the organization some hope and a clear vision into what is expected.

I'd love for the team to keep Nylander at the wing for his career with the Leafs. He'll be able to make more of his plays on the wing, have less responsibility on the ice and be able to showcase his playmaking ability a lot more. I'd like him to avoid going up against Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, etc. for a full year and chasing the play if he were to lose the draw. Instead he can cheat a bit at the point.

I've said it before, but I strongly disagree with this line of thinking on Nylander. Whenever I've seen him play, his style screams Center. He actually seems to prefer the responsibility and becomes infinitely more engaged when he's being relied on like that. His faceoff ability looked good to me as well, when I've seen him.

From my viewings of him, he's also not the kind of player who likes to cheat at the point for a breakout. Every single time I've watched him, he prefers to hang back and start the rush himself, usually from his defensive zone hash-marks. This lets him use his fantastic vision to make his play. (If you meant something else by "cheat a bit at the point" other than a breakout play, my bad).

I completely understand learning the ropes, particularly at higher or different levels, so I fully expect them to start him as a Winger when he first plays in the NHL, but hopefully the powers that be will be wise enough to see how much more effective he is when playing down the middle and he won't spend much more than one half-to-full season there

 

[showtime8]

I've said it before, but I strongly disagree with this line of thinking on Nylander. Whenever I've seen him play, his style screams Center. He actually seems to prefer the responsibility and becomes infinitely more engaged when he's being relied on like that. His faceoff ability looked good to me as well, when I've seen him.

From my viewings of him, he's also not the kind of player who likes to cheat at the point for a breakout. Every single time I've watched him, he prefers to hang back and start the rush himself, usually from his defensive zone hash-marks. This lets him use his fantastic vision to make his play. (If you meant something else by "cheat a bit at the point" other than a breakout play, my bad).

I completely understand learning the ropes, particularly at higher or different levels, so I fully expect them to start him as a Winger when he first plays in the NHL, but hopefully the powers that be will be wise enough to see how much more effective he is when playing down the middle and he won't spend much more than one half-to-full season there

Interesting perspective on that. I'm not changing my thought process on him right now, but this may have altered it a bit.

By cheating at the blue line, I just mean that he doesn't have to be digging in the corners and trying to retrieve the puck against big wingers in the defensive zone. This way, he can hang close to the point and when the puck comes around the boards, he can make the chip pass or retreat in his own zone and start the breakout that way.

If they do want him to start at centre, next year with the Marlies is the best idea. He's got the talent to be with the NHL right away, but from an organizational view, what's the best thing for him? Next year, it will be Froese, Gauthier, Verhaeghe an Rupert at centre ice. I have no problem starting either of the CHL guys with the ECHL to help their development and to allow Nylander a chance to play centre.

 

[IBeL34f]

Interesting perspective on that. I'm not changing my thought process on him right now, but this may have altered it a bit.

By cheating at the blue line, I just mean that he doesn't have to be digging in the corners and trying to retrieve the puck against big wingers in the defensive zone. This way, he can hang close to the point and when the puck comes around the boards, he can make the chip pass or retreat in his own zone and start the breakout that way.

If they do want him to start at centre, next year with the Marlies is the best idea. He's got the talent to be with the NHL right away, but from an organizational view, what's the best thing for him? Next year, it will be Froese, Gauthier, Verhaeghe an Rupert at centre ice. I have no problem starting either of the CHL guys with the ECHL to help their development and to allow Nylander a chance to play centre.

I have no problem keeping him in the AHL to start next year either. I think a lot of it depends on who we end up shipping out over the off-season. If we go scorched earth with is right off the bat, then it'll be hard to keep someone with his talent away from the Big League too long without bringing in a fair amount of stop-gap veterans. It'll be really interesting to see how it all plays out, though I definitely hope that management's long-term goal with him is to play Center.

And thanks for clarifying the cheating part. My only concerns walking away from any game I watched him in, were that he did avoid some contact in the corners (I wouldn't use it to label him as soft, but it certainly has happened), and that his shifts were often too long. He'll never be the big, jam-along-the-side-wall kind of player, but his retrieval skills are top-notch, and he is useful in puck battles because of that.

 

[Hotlanta]

Johnson's season in the SHL is done. Do we sign him and bring him over now (get him out of his final year on his contract), or hope he makes team Sweden for WHC and let him stay overseas for another season?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Johnson's season in the SHL is done. Do we sign him and bring him over now (get him out of his final year on his contract), or hope he makes team Sweden for WHC and let him stay overseas for another season?

I don't think he'll play at WHC because he did suffer a knee injury before and missed a few playoff games.

If he is fully healthy then he would suit up for Sweden but if he was just playing through the pain to help the team then I suspect he'll sit the WHC out.

In terms of getting him over here, not sure when we plan on that. I hope soon.

 

[613Leafer]

I'd love for the team to keep Nylander at the wing for his career with the Leafs. He'll be able to make more of his plays on the wing, have less responsibility on the ice and be able to showcase his playmaking ability a lot more. I'd like him to avoid going up against Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, etc. for a full year and chasing the play if he were to lose the draw. Instead he can cheat a bit at the point.

Why do we want to develop him into a one-dimensional winger when we can develop him into a two-way centre? He's better defensively and fights harder for loose pucks than what his draft reputation suggested. Some people made it sound like we were drafting a lazy floater who relied on talent, but from what I've seen, he's a hardworking guy.

Size? That's not an issue. He's projected to be the same size or bigger than Giroux, RNH, Datsyuk, Duchene, Pavelski, etc. Plenty of top notch centres around the league are his size.

Dineen has sung his praises, saying he's staying late at practice, at the gym, eating properly, etc. To me it looks like Nylander has both the mentality and the skill-set to become a solid two-way skilled centre in this league, which drives teams success much more than more one-dimensional wingers.

Not to mention centres are able to use their playmaking abilities more than wingers. They can distribute the puck to both wingers with ease, that's why the top guys for assists are typically centres (7 of the top 10 guys for assists right now are centres, same last season with only one winger and two D in the top 10).

I would put Nylander in the AHL as the Marlies #1 Centre next season, and make it a focus of the coaching/development staff to get Nylander to commit to learning all the defensive nuances that come with the position. He has the skating, hockey IQ, and work ethic to do it.

 

[4thline]

Question. Would happen to know Modo's record this year with and without Nylander? I was just looking and noticed that despite only playing 20 games he finished within 5 points of the team lead

 

[theIceWookie]

And if he gets a game in the NHL next year?

It's same as CHLers, so 9 games and it burns. 8 or less and he's fine.

His contract slides while he's under 18. He can play the full next year in the AHL and still not have it count towards his ELC, his UFA status, waiver exemption etc. It's a sliding contract. Just like Mantha in the AHL currently, doesn't actually count against the ELC.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Interesting perspective on that. I'm not changing my thought process on him right now, but this may have altered it a bit.

By cheating at the blue line, I just mean that he doesn't have to be digging in the corners and trying to retrieve the puck against big wingers in the defensive zone. This way, he can hang close to the point and when the puck comes around the boards, he can make the chip pass or retreat in his own zone and start the breakout that way.

If they do want him to start at centre, next year with the Marlies is the best idea. He's got the talent to be with the NHL right away, but from an organizational view, what's the best thing for him? Next year, it will be Froese, Gauthier, Verhaeghe an Rupert at centre ice. I have no problem starting either of the CHL guys with the ECHL to help their development and to allow Nylander a chance to play centre.

After spending a few days arguing with people who are masters of the art of arguing in circles and completely unable to carry an actual discussion, it's just a thing of beauty to read a post where somebody actually listens to counter-arguments.

 

[VictorLustig]

Question. Would happen to know Modo's record this year with and without Nylander? I was just looking and noticed that despite only playing 20 games he finished within 5 points of the team lead

They would probably have done a little better with him but their roster would still be by far the weakest in the SHL. They did get some decent replacements for Nylander and managed to avoid relegation.

 

[Budsfan]

Toronto Marlies @TorontoMarlies
ICYMI: Rinat Valiev has been assigned to the #Marlies from Kootenay of the WHL. He will wear No. 5
#MarliesLive

 

[Pholus]

It's same as CHLers, so 9 games and it burns. 8 or less and he's fine.

His contract slides while he's under 18. He can play the full next year in the AHL and still not have it count towards his ELC, his UFA status, waiver exemption etc. It's a sliding contract. Just like Mantha in the AHL currently, doesn't actually count against the ELC.

I thought it was his 10th game were his ELC will kick in (aka he can play 9 w/o burning the year off). I get what you're saying, but Mantha is a bad example. He is born in 94, so this year counts for his ELC (if he went back to the Q he would have been an overager). Tomas Tatar is who you probably meant

 

[TNCHL]

If Casey Bailey worked on skating all offseason he would be good

 

[sda]

Different positions.

But he might play 1 game this year. 6 games remaining and in a playoff push, but it's very likely that he could play in 1 of the 3 consecutive games to finish off the season. I'd put him in on the friday against Milwaukee.

Valiev probably wont see much game action but it should be good for him to be with the team. Marlies have a logjam of young d and with the fight for a playoff spot the vets will not be sat

 

[TNCHL]

Valiev probably wont see much game action but it should be good for him to be with the team. Marlies have a logjam of young d and with the fight for a playoff spot the vets will not be sat

They'll take out mikkelson he's ****

 

[Leafs at Knight]

They'll take out mikkelson he's ****

To be fair Nilsson and Finn deserve a spot more then Valiev at this point.