Prospect Info: Prospect Discussion 20/21 "It Could Have Been Lundell"

[Filppula]

Dropping out of the top 3 in last years draft was brutal. Missing Stutzle is shattering. I’m not even sure what Raymond is yet, his Swedish season was underwhelming.

 

[Pavels Dog]

 

[Realgud]

Dropping out of the top 3 in last years draft was brutal. Missing Stutzle is shattering. I’m not even sure what Raymond is yet, his Swedish season was underwhelming.

I'm sorry, but that's a shortsighted take. Raymond will surprise a lot of people, he's doing the right things in Sweden.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Zegras isn’t the second coming of Gretzky. And Seider is no slouch in terms of skill. His passing on the breakout and from the offensive blue line in AND his ability to hold the offensive blue line will be as impactful offensively as Zegras’ playmaking.
All while being a defensive beast.

The only reason you have to pull out the name Gretzky here is because you single handedly are driving the hype train for Seider as if he will be the second coming of Lidstrom and Orr combined.

Let's take a breather for a moment. Assuming both are successful in the NHL, Seider will never have the offensive impact of a player like Zegras; the good thing is that he doesn't need to have that impact to be the more impactful player in total. Seider's greatest impact will be in his own end. His offense will always take a back seat to his defense, and that's okay.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The only reason you have to pull out the name Gretzky here is because you single handedly are driving the hype train for Seider as if he will be the second coming of Lidstrom and Orr combined.

Let's take a breather for a moment. Assuming both are successful in the NHL, Seider will never have the offensive impact of a player like Zegras; the good thing is that he doesn't need to have that impact to be the more impactful player in total. Seider's greatest impact will be in his own end. His offense will always take a back seat to his defense, and that's okay.

It's hyperbole. Should I have used McDavid instead so as not to offend your sensibilities?

Zegras will be a good playmaking center, but people talk about the kid like he's going to put up 100 points next year. He's good, but I sincerely doubt he's going to be a top 15 center in the NHL and be closer to the 20 to 32 range when you rank first line centers. I don't doubt that Seider has it in him to be a top 15 defenseman in the league when he .

Seider looks like a 23 to 25 minute a night defenseman who can put up 30 to 40 points most years, 50 in a good season when we have the ponies up front to score more than 2 goals a night.
Zegras looks like a 1st line forward who can put up 50 to 60 points a year, probably 70 when the Ducks have better Wingers.

 

[FabricDetails]

This is sick...

Featured:
Raymond-Soderblom-Berggren
Johansson-Seider

They need someone who can actually win faceoffs though, hehe.

 

[MBH]

People are in for a rude awakening if they think Seider and Johannsson are going to transform the Wings powerplay.

 

[MBH]

I'm sorry, but that's a shortsighted take. Raymond will surprise a lot of people, he's doing the right things in Sweden.

It's far from shortsighted.
He said he didn't even know what Raymond was yet.
Do you?
Give me a projection, if you think @Filppula has it so wrong.
Who are all the 5'10 comparables you see playing wing in the NHL?

Because there are about 3-4 5'10 wingers currently.

He doesn't have Kane's skill or skating.
He doesn't have Gaudreau's wheels.

So who? Debrincat, but more of a playmaker?

 

[Killerjas]

People are in for a rude awakening if they think Seider and Johannsson are going to transform the Wings powerplay.

This is just a fun video, a "what if" scenario. Enjoy the potential

 

[Hen Kolland]

It's hyperbole. Should I have used McDavid instead so as not to offend your sensibilities?

Zegras will be a good playmaking center, but people talk about the kid like he's going to put up 100 points next year. He's good, but I sincerely doubt he's going to be a top 15 center in the NHL and be closer to the 20 to 32 range when you rank first line centers. I don't doubt that Seider has it in him to be a top 15 defenseman in the league when he .

Seider looks like a 23 to 25 minute a night defenseman who can put up 30 to 40 points most years, 50 in a good season when we have the ponies up front to score more than 2 goals a night.
Zegras looks like a 1st line forward who can put up 50 to 60 points a year, probably 70 when the Ducks have better Wingers.

You have become the anti-MBH. He loves the grass is greener arguments when it comes to our prospects. Who has it better than us? Everybody.

You are the leader of our little Koolaid Cult. Who has it better than us? Not a damn soul because we have Seider.

 

[Realgud]

It's far from shortsighted.
He said he didn't even know what Raymond was yet.
Do you?
Give me a projection, if you think @Filppula has it so wrong.
Who are all the 5'10 comparables you see playing wing in the NHL?

Because there are about 3-4 5'10 wingers currently.

He doesn't have Kane's skill or skating.
He doesn't have Gaudreau's wheels.

So who? Debrincat, but more of a playmaker?

I said it was a shortsighted take, not that he was wrong. These kind of statements a few months after the draft are shortsighted, that's all. Development isn't linear.

And I don't really know what to say to the rest of your post, I hate these kind of comparisons so I won't compare him to anyone in the NHL, but I'll reinforce his unique outstanding traits that could make him an elite player, which are: His creativity, his intelligence and his willingness to learn (coachable). These traits will be game changers for him and will bring him very far, but that's just my opinion. Raymond is that rare case of high-end skilled prospects with tremendous work ethic paired with supreme intelligence for the game, which is why I'm a giant believer in him. Give him time to get his offensive game back on track, the same thing happened with Seider. They went to a pro league at a young age to learn the pro game and it will benefit them greatly once they reach the NHL.

And of course I am biased, I had Raymond as a borderline first overall and would be first to me in 2021 without the shadow of a doubt. But people will doubt him (and Byfield) before they reach the NHL, that's how it works with high upside prospects that still has some development to do (confidence, offensive game). I like high upside "risky" prospects. Seider was the first 1st pick I liked from the Wings since 2015 (it really is unfortunate what happened to Svech's development...).

With that said, I see the downside of him being 5'10, of course that could work against him and his upside, as a result, might not end up as high as I perceive it could be. I understand being frustrated seeing Stützle being good in the NHL right now, but that's not the end of it all, there's ton of development remaining for all these players and I wouldn't be so quick to throw the towel...

 

[Realgud]

You have become the anti-MBH. He loves the grass is greener arguments when it comes to our prospects. Who has it better than us? Everybody.

You are the leader of our little Koolaid Cult. Who has it better than us? Not a damn soul because we have Seider.

I don't think MBH is necessarily "grass is greener" he just has his favorite prospects before a draft and is more vocal about them than most, but he comes at it with concrete arguments at least, which I can respect. I don't mind arguing about players and prospects, there's nothing inherently wrong about that, even among the same fanbase. and I also don't think there's anything wrong with NOT being a blind fan about your own team and thinking your team do no wrong (every team make mistakes). It's cool to be excited about your team but it's also fun to have discussions about players that people feel different about. If everyone was parroting the same stuff and fighting with other fanbases to claim that every Red Wings prospect is better than the other's team prospect, that would be pointless bickering (at least in my opinion).

 

[newfy]

I don't think MBH is necessarily "grass is greener" he just has his favorite prospects before a draft and is more vocal about them than most, but he comes at it with concrete arguments at least, which I can respect. I don't mind arguing about players and prospects, there's nothing inherently wrong about that, even among the same fanbase. and I also don't think there's anything wrong with NOT being a blind fan about your own team and thinking your team do no wrong (every team make mistakes). It's cool to be excited about your team but it's also fun to have discussions about players that people feel different about. If everyone was parroting the same stuff and fighting with other fanbases to claim that every Red Wings prospect is better than the other's team prospect, that would be pointless bickering (at least in my opinion).

Lol thats news to me, and probably most on this board

 

[Realgud]

Lol thats news to me, and probably most on this board

I said concrete, not good

jk, I don't hate you MBH

 

[lhsgolf19]

Sam Stange scores! His 6th of the Season in the 1st Period of Wisconsin's Big Ten Semifinal game vs. Penn State... 1-0 Wisconsin after 1

 

[wingerdinger]

Sam Stange scores! His 6th of the Season in the 1st Period of Wisconsin's Big Ten Semifinal game vs. Penn State... 1-0 Wisconsin after 1

his had a good season for a young freshman on a deep Wisconsin team.

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

You have become the anti-MBH. He loves the grass is greener arguments when it comes to our prospects. Who has it better than us? Everybody.

You are the leader of our little Koolaid Cult. Who has it better than us? Not a damn soul because we have Seider.

I will take that as a compliment.

And look, I don't think we have the best prospect pool in hockey. I do think we certainly have one of the best right now, though. Seider probably is the best under 20 player in the world right now. We've got a few other players that look to be really intriguing prospects and a good deal of them have a high chance of making it.

I've been following Wings prospects going back to the Redwings Central days when Matthew Wuest and Lindy were writing about babyfaced Zetterberg and this goofy looking kid from Russia that skated like a waterbug. This is the best our prospect pool has been since the 2001 to 2005 period when we had Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Hudler, Fleischmann, Fillpula, Ericsson, Howard, Franzen, Helm, Abdelkader either in the system or getting drafted.

The on ice product in Detroit sucks but we have much to look forward to.

 

[SergeiYzerman]

The Zegras vs. Seider debate isn't even close.

I say this as a HUGE fan of both. I was pounding the table for Zegras on draft night. I saw how skilled this little f***er was. Then we picked this no-name Defensive D-man and left a top line center on the board.

We made the right pick with Seider. The more I watch Zegras, the more I'm happy we passed on him. He's just as skilled as I thought he'd be, and his points will come down the road, you can bet your ass on that much. But next to goaltender, your #1 D is the most important player on your entire roster. He's the guy you want playing 25-28 minutes per night against the other team's top guys. He's the guy you want on the ice with 2 minutes left in the game trying to hold a lead or tie it up. Seider is that guy. He needs to prove it in the NHL, but I know he will. Zegras is excellent but he's not a player we can't get in another draft, whereas big, smart, mobile, right handed defensemen don't grow on trees.

Zegras comes across as incredibly arrogant and cocky, and I believe this was something that a lot of scouts and GMs expressed concerns over in the draft interviews. This type of character issue can hurt a team overall. Many also said Seider's interview was the best of the class, and most people were impressed by how poised and mature he was, and that gets reflected in his play on the ice.

Believe it or not, these kids aren't players on NHL 21 with 90 OVR ratings, they're actual humans, and the human element, the synergy and whatnot, all of that shit matters too.

 

[RabidBadger]

his had a good season for a young freshman on a deep Wisconsin team.

I don't know about deep. If any of the top line of Caufield/Weissbach/Holloway go down they are likely screwed. I hope Stange hits his stride and finishes the season strong like he started.

 

[lhsgolf19]

Tuomisto back in the lineup tonight vs. N. Dakota after being ejected in the last game.... Cooper Moore in the lineup for ND

Game is on the CBS Sports Network in about 10 minutes

 

[Christien]

Tuomisto with a pretty untimely penalty in overtime...

 

[lhsgolf19]

Tuomisto with a pretty untimely penalty in overtime...

He’d been so good all game... Tough

I wonder if Denver will get a bid to the tournament, gonna be extremely close

 

[Tetsuo]

I will take that as a compliment.

And look, I don't think we have the best prospect pool in hockey. I do think we certainly have one of the best right now, though. Seider probably is the best under 20 player in the world right now. We've got a few other players that look to be really intriguing prospects and a good deal of them have a high chance of making it.

I've been following Wings prospects going back to the Redwings Central days when Matthew Wuest and Lindy were writing about babyfaced Zetterberg and this goofy looking kid from Russia that skated like a waterbug. This is the best our prospect pool has been since the 2001 to 2005 period when we had Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Hudler, Fleischmann, Fillpula, Ericsson, Howard, Franzen, Helm, Abdelkader either in the system or getting drafted.

The on ice product in Detroit sucks but we have much to look forward to.

Don't forget Fischer! It's a huge shame with what happened to him.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm sorry, but that's a shortsighted take. Raymond will surprise a lot of people, he's doing the right things in Sweden.

Stutzle looks like the Pettersson of the 2020 draft. I think it's a very low chance that Raymond suprised to the level of being someone that impacts a franchise in a bigger way. Bigger question is how we would feel if the lottery hadn't "screwed" us and we got Lafreniere or Byfield?