Prospect Info: Prospect Discussion 20/21 "It Could Have Been Lundell"

[TCNorthstars]

what quote? the title of the article?

theres a couple paragraphs in there by pronman

The title is a quote from within the article by Wheeler. Wheeler said Mo handed him a loss. Pronman doesn't really say that he got it wrong.

 

[lhsgolf19]

Congrats Keith! Named one of the final 10 for the Hobey


Won’t win but that’s a great honor

 

[Pavels Dog]

That quote was from Wheeler.... I didn't really get the sense Pronman admitted anything?

Well, it's a complicated issue. Back when I made that post, I didn't really have time to fully read the article and it was hard to tell how much of Pronman's words were actually a meaningful admission of wrongdoing.
Since then, I have read it more carefully and seen that perhaps he didn't admit to anything (but it's too soon to say if you're right or not). It's complicated basically, that's what I think the story is.

 

[lidstromiscool]

It happened, Corey Pronman admitted he was wrong about Seider:

'Moritz Seider handed me a loss': How the Red Wings' prospect won over the public scouting world

Now sure, he barely admitted it, with a laundry list of excuses. But still, it's progress.

I love this quote from Chris Peters in the article: " I really do think he’s one of the best players not currently in the NHL and I’m more convinced than ever that he is going to be a long-term No. 1 defenseman." The guys in this article pretty much all believe Seider will be a top pair dman.

 

[ChadS]

Viro is doing very well, here's a report:

Prospects Report: Red Wings prospect Eemil Viro looking great - Fantasy Columns

1 assist and 24:19 ice time (TPS leader) tonight in a 7-2 loss.

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Good on him. I'm not sure what his career projection is because goalies are total voodoo, but I'm glad to see that he's doing so well this year.

 

[Martinez]

Well, it's a complicated issue. Back when I made that post, I didn't really have time to fully read the article and it was hard to tell how much of Pronman's words were actually a meaningful admission of wrongdoing.
Since then, I have read it more carefully and seen that perhaps he didn't admit to anything (but it's too soon to say if you're right or not). It's complicated basically, that's what I think the story is.

They all pretty much defended themselves and explained that he didn’t show enough to be a number 1 d man when they first ranked him. I would have liked if they praised the Red wings more for seeing what they didn’t.

 

[RabidBadger]

Congrats Keith! Named one of the final 10 for the Hobey


Won’t win but that’s a great honor

Agreed. It's always a longshot for goalies to win it (Dryden McKay has a strong case for it, though). That is quite an impressive group of names to be mentioned in though. I also don't remember 4 goalies being in the mix in any given year.

 

[lhsgolf19]

UMass Lowell pulls the massive upset... Seth Barton primary assist in Double OT

 

[ChadS]

There are some rumours that Kivenmäki might be moving to Pelicans in the Liiga for next season. I think it's a good option, he's not progressing as hoped with Ässät (partly due to injuries though) and Pelicans has a coach who supposedly is good with younger guys. A change of scenery might be good. Wings have his rights for another year.

 

[Konnan511]

If I had to guess it’s Seider for sure.

Veleno probably starts in Grand Rapids but gets first call up.

Berggren I’d say 50% he makes the main team out of camp. If not he goes to GR and gets 2nd call up.

I also think Giovanni Smith is up full time.

Chase Pearson is my dark horse.

I feel Jonaton either makes the Wings out of camp or stays in Sweden until he is ready. I'm not a huge fan of how the Griffins are being ran currently and I think some agents may know that.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I feel Jonaton either makes the Wings out of camp or stays in Sweden until he is ready. I'm not a huge fan of how the Griffins are being ran currently and I think some agents may know that.

I have to wonder if that played a part in some Wings prospects not wanting to stay there in the past. Johan Ryno, Igor Grigorenko (after he recovered) and Dick Axelsson are notables. They all wanted away from GR as quickly as they could.
Also Calle Jarnkrok wasn't too happy there either, apparently.

I can't help but think that it's something to do with culture or ownership in GR. I'm just not sure what exactly.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I have to wonder if that played a part in some Wings prospects not wanting to stay there in the past. Johan Ryno, Igor Grigorenko (after he recovered) and Dick Axelsson are notables. They all wanted away from GR as quickly as they could.
Also Calle Jarnkrok wasn't too happy there either, apparently.

I can't help but think that it's something to do with culture or ownership in GR. I'm just not sure what exactly.

You are overthinking it. They make more money in Sweden and the travel is much worse in the AHL. It is hardly a surprise that money and quality of life rule the day.

 

[raymond23]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the culture or ownership in GR...

- Calder Cups in 2013 and 2017
- 1000 wins as an organization
- Haven't missed the playoffs since 11-12
- Good NHL players they've produced recently... Nyquist, Tatar, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Athanasiou, Abdelkader, Nosek, Glendening, Zadina, Hronek, etc

They are one of the best run franchises in the AHL.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I feel Jonaton either makes the Wings out of camp or stays in Sweden until he is ready. I'm not a huge fan of how the Griffins are being ran currently and I think some agents may know that.

How so?

 

[TCNorthstars]

I have to wonder if that played a part in some Wings prospects not wanting to stay there in the past. Johan Ryno, Igor Grigorenko (after he recovered) and Dick Axelsson are notables. They all wanted away from GR as quickly as they could.
Also Calle Jarnkrok wasn't too happy there either, apparently.

I can't help but think that it's something to do with culture or ownership in GR. I'm just not sure what exactly.

How many of the guys you listed are in the NHL? Maybe those guys saw the writing on the wall that they weren't NHL'ers and decided to head back overseas.

 

[newfy]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the culture or ownership in GR...

- Calder Cups in 2013 and 2017
- 1000 wins as an organization
- Haven't missed the playoffs since 11-12
- Good NHL players they've produced recently... Nyquist, Tatar, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Athanasiou, Abdelkader, Nosek, Glendening, Zadina, Hronek, etc

They are one of the best run franchises in the AHL.

Yeah, no chance these players agents dont like grand rapids as an ahl choice lol. They may want to make more money and live a comfier lifestyle in Sweden. The Griffins are considered a class organisation in the AHL.

If I were Berggren (or Raymond) I would play in the AHL if I had a good idea/promise that I would get call ups and possibly just stay down for the first half of the season type deal

 

[lhsgolf19]

Another Congrats for the Big Guy!

 

[lilidk]

Any news when OHL starting? Could we see Grewe in GR in Ten days

 

[Kyleftlx]

My only guess as to why people wouldn’t enjoy how GR is put together could be that they’re not playing the Red Wings’ prospects quite as much as they were during the first cup run? Instead, guys like Barber, Criscuolo, Lashoff, etc. get to lead the way? I feel like that has been a trend the last couple of years and I’ve seen complaints on here about that... but I see no problem with it. If the DRW prospects were ready for those spots I’d imagine they would challenge for them.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I think the reason some prospects dislike playing for the Griffins doesn’t have as much to do with development but rather quality of life.

Most could get paid more playing in Europe while living in bigger and more desirable cities. That’s not a knock on GR, I’ve heard good things, but you can’t tell me you’d rather have a comparable salary playing in a place like Prague or Stockholm. Plus, Scandinavian and Slavic women are gorgeous, and if you’re a 19 year old athlete brimming with testosterone that is a factor.

If you gave 19-22 year me the choice of making 120k in the SHL while living in a country with beautiful natural scenery, statistically happier people, and more culture or 50k in the AHL in a standard smallish American city, I know which one I’m taking 10/10 times

 

[Konnan511]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the culture or ownership in GR...

- Calder Cups in 2013 and 2017
- 1000 wins as an organization
- Haven't missed the playoffs since 11-12
- Good NHL players they've produced recently... Nyquist, Tatar, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Athanasiou, Abdelkader, Nosek, Glendening, Zadina, Hronek, etc

They are one of the best run franchises in the AHL.

I said currently I wasn't a fan.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think the reason some prospects dislike playing for the Griffins doesn’t have as much to do with development but rather quality of life.

Most could get paid more playing in Europe while living in bigger and more desirable cities. That’s not a knock on GR, I’ve heard good things, but you can’t tell me you’d rather have a comparable salary playing in a place like Prague or Stockholm. Plus, Scandinavian and Slavic women are gorgeous, and if you’re a 19 year old athlete brimming with testosterone that is a factor.

If you gave 19-22 year me the choice of making 120k in the SHL while living in a country with beautiful natural scenery, statistically happier people, and more culture or 50k in the AHL in a standard smallish American city, I know which one I’m taking 10/10 times

Yeah you might want to look up what AHL players make. Especially our higher end guys that get a partial signing bonus each year are clearing the SHL figure you just named. Now the reason they leave is eventually that signing bonus money runs out. But take Svechnikov for an example in his first two seasons in Grand Rapids he was also receiving a $92,500 bonus on top of his $70,000 AHL salary.

Also you're eligible to go up, something you cannot do from Europe. Just being in the NHL for two or three weeks in a season can mean a huge windfall of cash. I remember whenever a guy was sent up from Milwaukee to Nashville back in the day when I hung with some Admirals that guy bought drinks for everyone that night. It was in no small part because they realize even being up for a few weeks what a difference that makes to their income.

Grand Rapids is usually in those top 10 cities in America poll. Now I don't think it stacks up to some areas, but as far as minor leagues go we have one of the best setups possible. The metropolitan area of Grand Rapids is over a million people by the way. City limits I think was around 200K last I checked. My friends in Milwaukee always liked going there, so this isn't Peoria in terms of the minors. But yeah, not everyone is going to like it and there are leagues you can be paid better in. Probably not a ton of them outside of the KHL as a player that age. Most of the other leagues pay their veterans a little better. By the way the McIlrath's and Lashoff types aren't making under 6 figures to play in Grand Rapids either. The AHL guys do a little better than I think most hockey fans understand.

Now culturally you are in a very different place

 

[newfy]

Yeah you might want to look up what AHL players make. Especially our higher end guys that get a partial signing bonus each year are clearing the SHL figure you just named. Now the reason they leave is eventually that signing bonus money runs out. But take Svechnikov for an example in his first two seasons in Grand Rapids he was also receiving a $92,500 bonus on top of his $70,000 AHL salary.

Also you're eligible to go up, something you cannot do from Europe. Just being in the NHL for two or three weeks in a season can mean a huge windfall of cash. I remember whenever a guy was sent up from Milwaukee to Nashville back in the day when I hung with some Admirals that guy bought drinks for everyone that night. It was in no small part because they realize even being up for a few weeks what a difference that makes to their income.

Grand Rapids is usually in those top 10 cities in America poll. Now I don't think it stacks up to some areas, but as far as minor leagues go we have one of the best setups possible. The metropolitan area of Grand Rapids is over a million people by the way. City limits I think was around 200K last I checked. My friends in Milwaukee always liked going there, so this isn't Peoria in terms of the minors. But yeah, not everyone is going to like it and there are leagues you can be paid better in. Probably not a ton of them outside of the KHL as a player that age. Most of the other leagues pay their veterans a little better. By the way the McIlrath's and Lashoff types aren't making under 6 figures to play in Grand Rapids either. The AHL guys do a little better than I think most hockey fans understand.

Now culturally you are in a very different place

Yeah some of the top AHL vets make a lot but the ELC guys make more staying in Europe. The difference in salary might not be crazy but its there and then you dont have to take a bus on 10 hour road trips for games either.

Grand Rapids is likely one of the best destinations to play in the AHL but it still wouldnt compare to the top teams in Sweden. Sweden is tax free as well