Speculation: Possible 2017 Off Season moves

[Frk It]

I will never understand the "Oh, they need to hold them accountable" rabble

The media has **** all to do with the decisions that a front office makes. If what a beat writer reports (outside of something actually wrong and immoral) influences a personnel decision, you need to be out of that job right away.

There is one group of people that Holland is beholden to. The Illitches. And the Illitches care about money coming in the door. Fans stop going, they make a change.

So unless there is something actually amiss at JLA beyond "we paid a few too many guys too much money for too many years", I don't see the point in getting angry about it. Seems like just getting pissed off to get pissed off.

We have a GM that is overly loyal to his players. Ownership that is overly loyal to the GM. Media that is not allowed to ask tough questions or they will lose access to the team. A coach that is allowed to stay after a bottom 5 finish where he looked lost. An entire assistant coaching staff that is allowed to stay after the most dysfunctional PP we have seen in 15+ years

The whole organization needs more accountability. Don't need to have jerks asking joke questions in the locker room like Toronto. But someone needs to be asking harder questions somewhere in the org. Maybe shorten some people's leashes so they aren't so damn comfortable and light a fire under them. Seems like we have gotten pretty soft, to be honest.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Country club.

This organization has zero accountability.

That won't change when your GM treats the team like a mom n pop store and ownership is asleep at the wheel.

This entire organization is a joke and has ushered in a 20+ year era of futility.

 

[Jaromir Blogger]

The media can influence the direction of the organization because it influences the paying public's decisions on what to do with their money. If the media creates a buzz that the Wings are a joke organization (like the Lions for so long), people won't spend nearly as much on Wings tickets and merchandise. The organization, as a business, obviously doesn't want that. Having media members who actually challenge the team and call it like it is could indirectly have a not-insignificant impact on how the organization is run.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

We have a GM that is overly loyal to his players. Ownership that is overly loyal to the GM. Media that is not allowed to ask tough questions or they will lose access to the team. A coach that is allowed to stay after a bottom 5 finish where he looked lost. An entire assistant coaching staff that is allowed to stay after the most dysfunctional PP we have seen in 15+ years

The whole organization needs more accountability. Don't need to have jerks asking joke questions in the locker room like Toronto. But someone needs to be asking harder questions somewhere in the org. Maybe shorten some people's leashes so they aren't so damn comfortable and light a fire under them. Seems like we have gotten pretty soft, to be honest.

This I can understand. This, I am in favor of. You need to get someone at an executive level to get in Chris Illitch's ear and say "this isn't good enough." It needs to be an internal "tough questions need to be asked". Get some pride in the executives and have the Red Wings ownership team critically look at Ken Holland.

I don't buy into the "media needs to be hard" on them. Media has been nothing but vicious AF to Donald Trump and that hasn't changed one iota of what he's done. The media is a bunch of white noise to sport team executives. I've never heard anyone say "Oh, well the Freep says the Wings are going to be good."

The media challenging the local team for the sake of challenging the local team is worthless. If the media whinging about a contract makes a GM for one second alter his plan (and it isn't something like Joe Mixon or Michael Floyd or Alex Semin, where there is an extenuating circumstance or reason to reconsider even before then), that guy shouldn't be a GM.

 

[Frk It]

This I can understand. This, I am in favor of. You need to get someone at an executive level to get in Chris Illitch's ear and say "this isn't good enough." It needs to be an internal "tough questions need to be asked". Get some pride in the executives and have the Red Wings ownership team critically look at Ken Holland.

I don't buy into the "media needs to be hard" on them. Media has been nothing but vicious AF to Donald Trump and that hasn't changed one iota of what he's done. The media is a bunch of white noise to sport team executives. I've never heard anyone say "Oh, well the Freep says the Wings are going to be good."

The media challenging the local team for the sake of challenging the local team is worthless. If the media whinging about a contract makes a GM for one second alter his plan (and it isn't something like Joe Mixon or Michael Floyd or Alex Semin, where there is an extenuating circumstance or reason to reconsider even before then), that guy shouldn't be a GM.

Yeah, ideally it comes from the inside as opposed to the outside. For sure. I don't want the media badgering guys in the locker room. I just want a little more middle ground then what we have, where everything is a little too buddy-buddy, IMO.

 

[Winger98]

In the end, I think reporters are seen as the voice of the fan. They aren't the athletes. They aren't the owners. But they have access. And they certainly have opinions. And as fans who don't necessarily feel our voices are heard, or at least heard very clearly, we see reporters as the people to stand in for us. And when they don't, or at least when we don't perceive them as doing it, it's upsetting because if they aren't an extension of our voice, who are they an extension of?

So, while I side largely with where TS is coming from here, in that the reporters are unlikely to hold great sway with what actually happens regardless of the questions they ask, I also wouldn't mind seeing a bit more critical of an eye cast on the organization from time to time just so I know that maybe I'm not nuts here.

For what it's worth, I think Khan at the very least has a pretty honest view of where the Wings are and where they are likely to go. It's very understated, and only seems to really show in his Q&A articles, but it's there. I get the impression, though, that he doesn't expect much serious movement or change in the near term regardless, and it's sort of pointless to get worked up over.

 

[Flowah]

I don't buy into the "media needs to be hard" on them. Media has been nothing but vicious AF to Donald Trump and that hasn't changed one iota of what he's done. The media is a bunch of white noise to sport team executives. I've never heard anyone say "Oh, well the Freep says the Wings are going to be good."

If the media had been asking these questions for 3 years, since we've been mediocre for at least 5, opinions would have shifted. Fans would have caught on. Propaganda is used for a reason. It works. If the media does nothing but softball crap and constantly parrots this "anything can happen if you make it in!" nonsense, the fans will believe it. If the media starts asking tough questions about why we've gone nowhere in the playoffs for so long and have no top tier prospects, fans will wonder that too.

And the ownership absolutely cannot ignore the fans. Ignoring fans is a great way to lose money. We aren't Toronto. They can't expect fans to keep filling the seats and buying merch despite being god awful.

 

[lomekian]

Country club.

This organization has zero accountability.

That won't change when your GM treats the team like a mom n pop store and ownership is asleep at the wheel.

This entire organization is a joke and has ushered in a 20+ year era of futility.

Given that every winner of the cup since we last did in 2008 was laughably awful at some time during the last 15 years, that is a statement of impressive hyperbole. If the wings make good picks with 3 of their next 5 first round picks, while maintaining their record of picking up good middle line players with their picks in rounds 4-7 every year or two, this franchise could be a legitimate challenger pretty soon.

Yes top 3 picks make it easier, but there have plenty of players picked 7-20 (or lower) in the last decade that would have a massive impact on this Franchise.

 

[lomekian]

On a side note, the Detroit sports press is dull, dull, dull. Usually badly written bland with nothing to say bar watered down press releases or opinion pieces that offer very little opinion.

As someone from the UK, I just don't understand how they continue to operate.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

On a side note, the Detroit sports press is dull, dull, dull. Usually badly written bland with nothing to say bar watered down press releases or opinion pieces that offer very little opinion.

As someone from the UK, I just don't understand how they continue to operate.

Because the casual fans eat it up like nothing. There's literally no way Helene still has a job doing it otherwise. Even if she's a mouth piece for holland and co they could literally fire her and get someone better that does the same exact thing

Ansar is pretty good but eh

 

[njx9]

Given that every winner of the cup since we last did in 2008 was laughably awful at some time during the last 15 years, that is a statement of impressive hyperbole.

What, specifically, do you think this has to do with anything? Other teams were awful (and made front office changes), so Detroit can't possibly be a country club? Chicago fired Tallon, and hired Bowman, but because they won 3 cups after that you can't say they had any accountability?

Or you think it's impossible for a poorly run/managed team to face 20 years of futility? Is that simply because you've forgotten about the Leafs, Panthers, Blues, Coyotes, Islanders and Canadiens? Or is it because you think being the 14th/15th worst team in a 30/31 team league is somehow unrepresentative of futility?

I don't get it. There's overwhelming, incontrovertible evidence that poor leadership can destroy a team for absurdly long periods of time, and yet some of you desperately want to stick your heads in the sand, and pretend that it's impossible. Then again, the average fan probably remembers nothing about the end of the Norris era on their own team.

 

[Ezekial]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...9/ilya-kovalchuk-detroit-red-wings/101477048/

Just stop HSJ

 

[Mister Ed]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...9/ilya-kovalchuk-detroit-red-wings/101477048/

Just stop HSJ

(...) it is likely the Devils would want an asking price that does not make sense for the Wings.

The Wings have a better (and cheaper) shot at re-signing Vanek, in whom there wasn’t much interest at the trade deadline.

Pretty simple, he's not coming. Personally, I'm not interested in having Vanek back, although his awesome shootout moves were great.

 

[njx9]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...9/ilya-kovalchuk-detroit-red-wings/101477048/

Just stop HSJ

He makes no sense for us, and we make FAR less sense for him. HSJ is just awful.

Though I think the Kovy bit was just to make the "resign Vanek" paragraph at the end more palatable.

 

[Winger98]

Pretty simple, read the whole article. Not interested in having Vanek back, although his awesome shootout moves were great.

Also, it's her job to write articles. Other than the playoffs, Kovy returning to the NHL is pretty much the biggest story out there. She's doing her job.

 

[njx9]

Also, it's her job to write articles.

That's a poor excuse for writing bad articles.

 

[Winger98]

That's a poor excuse for writing bad articles.

what's so bad about it? It was essentially a vehicle for updating us on Datsyuk, saying Kovy is unlikely, and that we're more likely to go after and get Vanek. Might be stuff we don't want to hear, but it just seems like one of a million articles written every day all over the place by people who have to fill space. I prefer this to clickbait crap talking about weird conspiracy theories or cheating spouses.

 

[njx9]

what's so bad about it? It was essentially a vehicle for updating us on Datsyuk, saying Kovy is unlikely, and that we're more likely to go after and get Vanek. Might be stuff we don't want to hear, but it just seems like one of a million articles written every day all over the place by people who have to fill space. I prefer this to clickbait crap talking about weird conspiracy theories or cheating spouses.

It's a meandering, thoughtless piece, that tries to ask whether Kovy is coming to Detroit, forgets about that to discuss Datsyuk (because Russians!), stumbles back to Kovy to essentially say we're an unlikely destination, then randomly adds in a bit about Vanek. It's poorly written, and adds absolutely nothing whatsoever, aside from a note about Datsyuk's upcoming hockey camp.

Did you learn anything from it? Did it make you think? Of course not. It's a bad article, written by a bad writer.

It's sad that the best comparison you can make is that it's not, essentially, an ESPN-style hot take or a TMZ-style lifestyle piece. That says all you need to know about how worthless Red Wings coverage in the FP is. Vapid is an understatement.

 

[Winger98]

It's a meandering, thoughtless piece, that tries to ask whether Kovy is coming to Detroit, forgets about that to discuss Datsyuk (because Russians!), stumbles back to Kovy to essentially say we're an unlikely destination, then randomly adds in a bit about Vanek. It's poorly written, and adds absolutely nothing whatsoever, aside from a note about Datsyuk's upcoming hockey camp.

Did you learn anything from it? Did it make you think? Of course not. It's a bad article, written by a bad writer.

It's sad that the best comparison you can make is that it's not, essentially, an ESPN-style hot take or a TMZ-style lifestyle piece. That says all you need to know about how worthless Red Wings coverage in the FP is. Vapid is an understatement.

It talks about Datsyuk because he used to play for us, he played with Kovy last season, and their at least rumored plans for playing next year contrast. Vanek was tied in as the more likely option. If you don't see them as related, I don't know what to tell you.

As for the rest, I think you're looking at the wrong part of the paper if you're looking for think pieces and it sounds more like you're just grinding an ax.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It's a meandering, thoughtless piece, that tries to ask whether Kovy is coming to Detroit, forgets about that to discuss Datsyuk (because Russians!), stumbles back to Kovy to essentially say we're an unlikely destination, then randomly adds in a bit about Vanek. It's poorly written, and adds absolutely nothing whatsoever, aside from a note about Datsyuk's upcoming hockey camp.

Did you learn anything from it? Did it make you think? Of course not. It's a bad article, written by a bad writer.

It's sad that the best comparison you can make is that it's not, essentially, an ESPN-style hot take or a TMZ-style lifestyle piece. That says all you need to know about how worthless Red Wings coverage in the FP is. Vapid is an understatement.

Can you enlighten me on what you are looking for in the media? I'm not sure what I would need other than opinion pieces which are more harsh on the Red Wings.

It's sports. I don't think there is as much of a variety of things to talk about as some here would think.

 

[njx9]

It talks about Datsyuk because he used to play for us, he played with Kovy last season, and their at least rumored plans for playing next year contrast. Vanek was tied in as the more likely option. If you don't see them as related, I don't know what to tell you.

Datsyuk's plans for next year are irrelevant to the question she opens the piece with. Kovy's choice of location is irrelevant to Datsyuk's plans. She sums up Kovy's plans, after breaking away to discuss Datsyuk for a couple of paragraphs, just to answer her own question. If you think that's professional level writing, I don't know what to tell you.

As for the rest, I think you're looking at the wrong part of the paper if you're looking for think pieces and it sounds more like you're just grinding an ax.

I have a single ax to grind, and I quoted it when I quoted you, starting this exchange. You seem to think that "it's her job to write articles" apparently excuses anything she puts on the page. I said, and I quote, "That's a poor excuse for writing bad articles."

Sorry that I disagree that "but it's her job!" should be a conversation ender, I guess.

Can you enlighten me on what you are looking for in the media? I'm not sure what I would need other than opinion pieces which are more harsh on the Red Wings.

Are there any rumors around the league, about what the team is doing or might do? Who've they scouted recently, pro or amateur? What prospects are they looking at, and how do they fit in? Are there any sleepers? If this sounds familiar, it's because it's the same stuff fans discuss about every team, in every league, especially coming into a critical off-season. Even 'opinion' pieces that *aren't* critical of the team could at least be insightful, and would certainly be more insightful than an article that boils down to, "Could Kovalchuk come to the Wings? No. Datysuk's hockey camp is still on, though. Also Vanek might be brought back."

That's a tweet, not an article, and it still captures everything of value from the report in question.

*shrug* Maybe I just expect more from beat reporters, after some of the reporters that've come through the Denver; I don't really know the state of Lions/Pistons/Tigers reporting for comparison.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I don't get the beat writer hate. They're mostly PR people these days, and I don't blame them for it. That's the way the entire industry is going. Newspapers and magazines run paid ads disguised as real articles. Nobody cares about journalism anymore. If this is a way Khan and HSJ can pay their bills and still talk hockey for a living, more power to them. (I also think they do a good job of keeping casual fans in the loop, which is not something we think about very often on these forums.)

 

[Winger98]

Datsyuk's plans for next year are irrelevant to the question she opens the piece with. Kovy's choice of location is irrelevant to Datsyuk's plans. She sums up Kovy's plans, after breaking away to discuss Datsyuk for a couple of paragraphs, just to answer her own question. If you think that's professional level writing, I don't know what to tell you.

I have a single ax to grind, and I quoted it when I quoted you, starting this exchange. You seem to think that "it's her job to write articles" apparently excuses anything she puts on the page. I said, and I quote, "That's a poor excuse for writing bad articles."

Sorry that I disagree that "but it's her job!" should be a conversation ender, I guess.

No, Datsyuk is not irrelevant in a comparison to Kovy, and I've already covered why they are paired and the additional reason why Datsyuk would interest her readers.

I think you're off on your slamming the writing. It's nothing special, good or bad. It's just a run of the mill article.

I don't get the beat writer hate. They're mostly PR people these days, and I don't blame them for it. That's the way the entire industry is going. Newspapers and magazines run paid ads disguised as real articles. Nobody cares about journalism anymore. If this is a way Khan and HSJ can pay their bills and still talk hockey for a living, more power to them. (I also think they do a good job of keeping casual fans in the loop, which is not something we think about very often on these forums.)

And the casual fan is really their daily reader. They're not going to churn out a bunch of articles nitpicking the WJC or this or that prospect in Canadian juniors or a second tier Euro league
because the majority of readers are not going to care. Some of us might lap it up and love it, but it would probably be their ticket to unemployment.

And I think sports pages have been that way since the beginning. Did anyone know Babe Ruth was maybe the highest functioning alcoholic baseball has ever seen? Or that Mantle was a drunken womanizer? Or (well, until he wrote his own book about it anyway) Wilt Chamberlain would claim to sleep with thousands of women? If anything, sports writers have long held the job of maintaining the images of our heroes, keeping reality at bay, so that it's a little easier to watch and dream.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

I'm not a fan of HSJ either, but I don't see how that article is any better or worse than the thousands and thousands churned out any given day in sports sections across NA.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I'm not a fan of HSJ either, but I don't see how that article is any better or worse than the thousands and thousands churned out any given day in sports sections across NA.

It's not the worst so we might as well keep it. Hsj definetely wanted to trade mrazek and have coreau up full time after his second shutout. I'm sure management did as well but you think someone that writes for the hockey industry and for the wings wouldn't be just above the tier of the jokes

But I'd rather fire holland and hire yzerman before I fire Helene for let's say bob McKenzie. I don't care much about the articles