Speculation: Possible 2017 Off Season moves

[The Zetterberg Era]

To be fair, it's a known fact that one of the contributors to the blog was the best man in Jack Johnson's wedding....and that's who the info supposedly came from.

People can rip on this blog all they want...sad thing is, they've broken more big local sports stories in the past 10 years than the entire Detroit sports media combined. Jeff Moss is a bit looney, but he currently has his own weekly segment on a Lansing sports talk radio show and used to co-host a show on 1130 WFDN, and has a history of being correct on big news stories well before anyone else in the media has it. I mean, Moss was in an in person baseball draft for a fantasy league with Jose Canseco a few years back, got a guy from the Howard Stern show to do a couple phone pranks for him. I have no idea how this guy knows people, but he does.

Agreed, it is one of the reasons I have gone to bat for him in terms of allowing his content. He has broken way too much stuff at this point in Detroit for me not to trust him on certain stuff that does pass the sniff test.

They do have some content though that is fairly hard to take in. However, the connections he has/had in terms of the NHL are also from a real place. Guessing he is getting some heat now though as dogging out Abdelkader to take shots at Malik is pretty inadvisable. You just called him an idiot and a Red Wings shill in the pocket of Datsyuk's agent, why go screwing that up to out your source from a year old article. Why let Malik bait you into that?

A lot of us read the Swedish Mafia article last year and nodded, it made sense and in all honesty I assumed it came from Abdelkader/Smith at the time it broke. Just by the tone and some of what was being talked about. He didn't need to say it, calling Malik a hack didn't need to be expounded upon in my opinion. If I am JMFJ and Gator well Jeff Moss has some pretty tough explaining to do.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Considering how quickly stuff comes out with regards to other teams, I have a hard time seeing the team keeping something this dysfunctional staying between players and internal staff.

Remember, the claim is that Zetterberg literally decided the game plans and who played when. That is way more than the team ignoring the coach and Zetterberg being actively against him.

Well what he said was after Blashill would address the team Zetterberg would tell them to play a different way... I don't like it, you know you will have a tough time finding a bigger Zetterberg fan than me, but do I find it totally implausible that at some point Zetterberg stood up after an address and said no, get the pucks deep and do something else... I get that Moss leaves the impression it wasn't just one time. But you could feel other vets probably would have had an incredible uneasiness if that actually did happen. Enough to be sharing it with a buddy from another team with a bunch of the other details that do more or less check out.

 

[Pavels Dog]

why the hell else would Ericcson be glued to the top pair for so long?

...because we didn't have any better options?

This whole thing reeks of people trying to construct an elaborate narrative to explain something they don't like.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

...because we didn't have any better options?

This whole thing reeks of people trying to construct an elaborate narrative to explain something they don't like.

I don't think pro dressing rooms are a symbiotic as a lot of people think though either. There are parts of that dressing room that probably were not finding that fair. Is that so hard to believe?

Big E was really struggling last year, especially during the stretch run.

 

[Winger98]

I don't think pro dressing rooms are a symbiotic as a lot of people think though either. There are parts of that dressing room that probably were not finding that fair. Is that so hard to believe?

Big E was really struggling last year, especially during the stretch run.

It's not hard to believe but, at the same time, our blueline sucked and how many other options did we have? And thinking it unfair is a long way from this swedish mafia conspiracy theory being peddled.

Even if there is a degree of truth to the vet swedes having an inordinate amount of pull, it still says more about Blashill than anything if he just buckled to it as all of these accounts suggest. I also have a hard time buying a coach giving into such a mutiny and that coach still being in the same job a year later.

Have to also wonder if nationality wouldn't be coloring some folks perceptions, too. If Z was Canadian, would he just be a stronger leader rather than someone usurping control from the coach? Maybe.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It's not hard to believe but, at the same time, our blueline sucked and how many other options did we have? And thinking it unfair is a long way from this swedish mafia conspiracy theory being peddled.

Even if there is a degree of truth to the vet swedes having an inordinate amount of pull, it still says more about Blashill than anything if he just buckled to it as all of these accounts suggest. I also have a hard time buying a coach giving into such a mutiny and that coach still being in the same job a year later.

Have to also wonder if nationality wouldn't be coloring some folks perceptions, too. If Z was Canadian, would he just be a stronger leader rather than someone usurping control from the coach? Maybe.

I get that and it no doubt seemed sensationalized. However, I do think we need to honestly look at how pro sports dressing rooms are viewed. There is a decent amount of disharmony in those places. The people that I have known that make it to those levels don't describe it as the utopia often espoused by fans or journalists.

It is a job, a dream job for all of us. But they complain a lot like anybody else about their jobs and the people at their jobs. That has been my experience when I have been around some of the guys that I have known playing pro hockey.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Miller was injured last season from January 10th, 12 days before Andersson was sent down initially. If you don't remember Andersson centered AA and Tatar at one point during that series(with a nice setup by Andy for AA's goal), but they wanted a veteran PKer I'm guessing.

Ok. I messed up the timing of it. But the point was that Mantha wouldn't have been on a line with Datsyuk or Z if he were taken instead of Andersson. He'd have been on the fourth line and been worthless because I don't think he'll ever be a grinder type.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I get that and it no doubt seemed sensationalized. However, I do think we need to honestly look at how pro sports dressing rooms are viewed. There is a decent amount of disharmony in those places. The people that I have known that make it to those levels don't describe it as the utopia often espoused by fans or journalists.

It is a job, a dream job for all of us. But they complain a lot like anybody else about their jobs and the people at their jobs. That has been my experience when I have been around some of the guys that I have known playing pro hockey.

And that's why it's irresponsible as hell to throw around crap like the Swedish Mafia story. Who's to say that Abby didn't have a one day blowup during a losing streak or something and complain, but then it's over? I mean, he got it from a source of a source.

Complaining about co-workers is par for the course. It is embarrassing to take an unsubstantiated story (A tertiary source to a story is pretty much as good as no source at all) and run with it like it's truly something that happened.

 

[Winger98]

I get that and it no doubt seemed sensationalized. However, I do think we need to honestly look at how pro sports dressing rooms are viewed. There is a decent amount of disharmony in those places. The people that I have known that make it to those levels don't describe it as the utopia often espoused by fans or journalists.

It is a job, a dream job for all of us. But they complain a lot like anybody else about their jobs and the people at their jobs. That has been my experience when I have been around some of the guys that I have known playing pro hockey.

Oh, I don't question for a minute that different guys/groups in any locker room will have their own set of complaints/beefs/whatever and their own perception of events. I just don't buy the idea that the swedes are essentially a shadow government. If it was as dysfunctional as that I think we'd have seen some guys getting benched, traded, or the coach asking out of his deal if the front office backed the players over him.

It wouldn't just be a guy griping to a blogger three steps removed through a game of telephone.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

And that's why it's irresponsible as hell to throw around crap like the Swedish Mafia story. Who's to say that Abby didn't have a one day blowup during a losing streak or something and complain, but then it's over? I mean, he got it from a source of a source.

Complaining about co-workers is par for the course. It is embarrassing to take an unsubstantiated story (A tertiary source to a story is pretty much as good as no source at all) and run with it like it's truly something that happened.

Unfortunately we have said that about a lot of things in regards to that web-site that proved true later on. So it is fun to dismiss it, but there is the other side where they have legitimately broken sports news in this town first and seen stories be proven accurate later on as well.

I mean the guy clearly has connection in town, I find it a little hard to ignore that.

Unfortunately the Wings aren't a team that is covered well at all from a local standpoint. They have almost no accountability to the press to do anything and rarely are asked tough questions. They earned that through a long run but if you want the one thing I would like to see go away quickly it is that. The kid gloves around this team are astounding, and I choose to read some of this and nod my head in agreement. We all have choices to make, you tell me it is fake news, good for you I am not so sure while it is wrote in a sensationalist manner that it doesn't have real merits within those reports.

It should also be pointed out that Jack Johnson (who may or may not have had a role in this) has a history of speaking candidly on stuff like this. He was really at the heart of exposing the Skille vs Kessel rift that ripped apart the USMNTDP for a year. I know another guy on that team that said as sensational as that sounded that kind of stuff was really happening...

 

[Bench]

Oh, I don't question for a minute that different guys/groups in any locker room will have their own set of complaints/beefs/whatever and their own perception of events. I just don't buy the idea that the swedes are essentially a shadow government. If it was as dysfunctional as that I think we'd have seen some guys getting benched, traded, or the coach asking out of his deal if the front office backed the players over him.

It wouldn't just be a guy griping to a blogger three steps removed through a game of telephone.

It's not going to be as sinister as laid out by the articles, which are dripping with hyperbole. As you said, a shadow government.

But... the pressure a rookie coach would feel confronting Zetterberg, Kronwall, and other veterans. And maybe his decisions get influenced by them, even if it's not outright control. Leadership that entrenched in the organization could absolutely undermine a rookie coach with no pedigree.

As for wholesale changes from the disruption, well, that's not really the Wings way. I'd like to think they would, but Holland is painfully stubborn, we know that.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Unfortunately we have said that about a lot of things in regards to that web-site that proved true later on. So it is fun to dismiss it, but there is the other side where they have legitimately broken sports news in this town first and seen stories be proven accurate later on as well.

I mean the guy clearly has connection in town, I find it a little hard to ignore that.

Unfortunately the Wings aren't a team that is covered well at all from a local standpoint. They have almost no accountability to the press to do anything and rarely are asked tough questions. They earned that through a long run but if you want the one thing I would like to see go away quickly it is that. The kid gloves around this team are astounding, and I choose to read some of this and nod my head in agreement. We all have choices to make, you tell me it is fake news, good for you I am not so sure while it is wrote in a sensationalist manner that it doesn't have real merits within those reports.

It should also be pointed out that Jack Johnson (who may or may not have had a role in this) has a history of speaking candidly on stuff like this. He was really at the heart of exposing the Skille vs Kessel rift that ripped apart the USMNTDP for a year. I know another guy on that team that said as sensational as that sounded that kind of stuff was really happening...

I want to see ANYTHING, any scrap of information that isn't from DSR that intimates something like this is going on. With the way of the world, TMZ sports, athletes all over Twitter, etc.. there is no way that something like a captain of a team outwardly mutinying on his coach would draw peeps from everyone except a notoriously sensational sports blogger.

I'm just kind of surprised that he didn't turn around and say that Abby got his 7/30M contract BECAUSE of the complaining about the Swedish Mafia. Because he didn't want to blow the cover off of it, Holland paid him off with a ludicrous contract.

 

[Winger98]

It's not going to be as sinister as laid out by the articles, which are dripping with hyperbole. As you said, a shadow government.

But... the pressure a rookie coach would feel confronting Zetterberg, Kronwall, and other veterans. And maybe his decisions get influenced by them, even if it's not outright control. Leadership that entrenched in the organization could absolutely undermine a rookie coach with no pedigree.

As for wholesale changes from the disruption, well, that's not really the Wings way. I'd like to think they would, but Holland is painfully stubborn, we know that.

Then were was Tony Granato that year? Or Torchetti and Houda this year (assuming it was still a problem)? These vet coaches should have been in Blashill's ear at that point and pushing hard. Or even just taking it upon themselves to be the bad cop and take some guys to the woodshed.

I can see Blashill taking in Z and Kronwall's opinions a lot, and maybe some guys perceiving that in a much uglier way than it actually was. I think that it's really just a case of sour grapes for a number of guys, though.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I don't think pro dressing rooms are a symbiotic as a lot of people think though either

I was just thinking about that the other day.

When you put 20 highly competitive guys together, the odds that everyone is going to get along and/or like each other seems beyond slim.

 

[Bench]

I was just thinking about that the other day.

When you put 20 highly competitive guys together, the odds that everyone is going to get along and/or like each other seems beyond slim.

I think many of us played a lot of competitive team sports growing up. And I think those of us that did understand all too well that some teams simply do not mesh. Sometimes it's play style. Sometimes it's personality. But for whatever reason you have good players that can't seem to get on the same page no matter how much effort you put into making it work.

Through youth hockey into adulthood, I can vividly recall the teams that had really sour relations. And just as vivid are the teams where we felt like a truly cohesive unit. One team I played on went far further into a state championship than we deserved, outclassed in scoring talent by nearly every team in the tournament, because we were all such good friends and pulled the same direction. Synergy is a hard thing to measure or account for, but it has real influence over a highly team oriented sport like hockey.

 

[Jaromir Blogger]

Great points by Bench here. Locker rooms can be awesome places where everyone gets along and the team becomes greater than the sum of its parts or they can be depressing, strife-ridden dumps where everyone underachieves. And let's face it: the Wings have looked like a team whose dressing room isn't exactly cohesive for years now. The inability to play 60 minute games, the steadily deteriorating passing, the dispassionate displays for years by much of the team - it all adds up to a squad that simply isn't having fun and isn't playing for each other.

 

[lomekian]

So, what's your argument? That because this isn't world diplomacy, or a nuclear arms negotiation source confidentiality isn't important? Or that his sources don't think there might be retribution when they talk about in-locker room stuff outside of the locker room? That he should immediately name every single source he has, just to satisfy your personal voyeurism, no matter how much that might impact his ability to use those sources in the future? Or that, because he only named one source, he might as well have not named any, and his one named source is irrelevant, in spite of, you know, actually being in the locker room throughout?

Why are you so desperate for this at best dubious personal opinion laden rant based on 3rd hand information to be received as gospel?

And has it not occurred to you that actually 'naming' his source massively undermines his credibility as suggesting that Abby had actually said all that to someone outside of the organisation not only makes Abby look unwise, but also would require 2 or 3 separate betrayals of trust, all of which would pretty much permanently remove each person from the loop.

For this to be true would require at least different people to be irresponsible and stupid.

Also protecting your source only to out them a year later when they are in the same role with the same colleagues with the same situation is not only bat-**** crazy but also deeply unpleasant, given that it was done to effectively shut up internet randoms and take pot shots at George Malik.

As I say, at best its re-jigged heresay by someone reporting it to suit their own agenda while betraying the trust of their information loop.

 

[lomekian]

what's funny is that if we were moving a guy out of the top9 to make room for mantha it would be, well, Abdelkader.

Given that KH last year very publicly stated that there would be no trading of picks or kids and that improvement primarily had to come from within, its possible the organisation thought that AHL playoffs may have been better for Mantha's development than toiling in a DRW team that badly ran out steam come last year's playoffs. Certainly Mantha's play this year compared to last suggests that whether intentional or not, that was the best choice for his and the organisations future...

Also, if the 'Swedish mafia' was so powerful as to dictate roster decisions, hence why Joakim Andersson was brought up in the playoffs, why was a) Andersson demoted from reasonably successful 3rd line center to 13th forward and b) Andersson then waived, stuck in GR and only brought up when there was an injury curse.

Though he was poor in his last 18 months at DRW, there is a not entirely unreasonable argument to suggest he was prior to that unfairly treated by the coaching staff in order for the fast tracking of Riley 'goal threat' Sheahan.

Similarly with Ericsson, if he was getting such preferential treatment, why was he forced to play on his off-side when his ability to do so was, as he freely admitted, impacted by his hip problems and wrist surgery...?

 

[njx9]

Why are you so desperate for this at best dubious personal opinion laden rant based on 3rd hand information to be received as gospel?

Please quote any scant instance of "desperation" for this to be received as "gospel" or anything remotely close to that. I'll wait. It's certainly not in what you quoted, but then, you'd have actually had to read the back and forth to know that.

And has it not occurred to you that actually 'naming' his source massively undermines his credibility as suggesting that Abby had actually said all that to someone outside of the organisation not only makes Abby look unwise, but also would require 2 or 3 separate betrayals of trust, all of which would pretty much permanently remove each person from the loop.

Wait, so not naming his sources is horrible and makes it obviously fake, but naming his sources is also stupid and shows he has no credibility? Which is it? This is the worthless garbage I'm arguing against: asinine, emotional arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with reality. If you think the Swedish Mafia stuff is asinine, there are, as other posters have demonstrated, good arguments to that effect, that have nothing to do with trying to argue that Moss is uncredible no matter what he does, simply because you want him to be.

For this to be true would require at least different people to be irresponsible and stupid.

Well, that's certainly additive and useful new information. Bravo.

Also protecting your source only to out them a year later when they are in the same role with the same colleagues with the same situation is not only bat-**** crazy but also deeply unpleasant, given that it was done to effectively shut up internet randoms and take pot shots at George Malik.

No one has suggested that Jeff Moss is a good guy, or comes across well in this blog, or that being nettled into this post by Malik was a thoughtful decision.

As I say, at best its re-jigged heresay by someone reporting it to suit their own agenda while betraying the trust of their information loop.

I have absolutely no idea what you think you're arguing against, since it's clearly not the post you actually quoted.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Why are you so desperate for this at best dubious personal opinion laden rant based on 3rd hand information to be received as gospel?

And has it not occurred to you that actually 'naming' his source massively undermines his credibility as suggesting that Abby had actually said all that to someone outside of the organisation not only makes Abby look unwise, but also would require 2 or 3 separate betrayals of trust, all of which would pretty much permanently remove each person from the loop.

For this to be true would require at least different people to be irresponsible and stupid.

Also protecting your source only to out them a year later when they are in the same role with the same colleagues with the same situation is not only bat-**** crazy but also deeply unpleasant, given that it was done to effectively shut up internet randoms and take pot shots at George Malik.

As I say, at best its re-jigged heresay by someone reporting it to suit their own agenda while betraying the trust of their information loop.

Yeah, pretty much all this.

Jeff Moss is a bum. Maybe he breaks a story or two here or there. But he's such a god-damned blowhard that it is impossible to take him seriously, particularly when he's saying something stupid.

It's kinda like Eklund. Do you take what he says as a credible source or do you want for a verified report?

If Eklund nails a trade before it happens, I think it is "throw enough **** at the wall and something is bound to stick". I view Jeff Moss as the same thing. Many of his big "breaking stories" are ones that he infers something and runs with it.

Rob Parker doesn't specifically ask for the bit about his loan from Joe D to be redacted from a story? Rob Parker totally had a loan from Joe D that ruined his credibility.

Drew Sharp (RIP), noted prickly *******, writes an article makes it seem like he didn't watch the first half of JV's no-hitter. ZOMG Drew Sharp is a worthless bum and the Freep is standing up for him by deleting his story so you can't see it.

Oh, Zetterberg's people told me he wanted to talk directly to me, but that never happened! Clearly Hank is hiding something!

He's a gotcha "journalist" that runs a crappy blog.

 

[lomekian]

Please quote any scant instance of "desperation" for this to be received as "gospel" or anything remotely close to that. I'll wait. It's certainly not in what you quoted, but then, you'd have actually had to read the back and forth to know that.



Wait, so not naming his sources is horrible and makes it obviously fake, but naming his sources is also stupid and shows he has no credibility? Which is it? This is the worthless garbage I'm arguing against: asinine, emotional arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with reality. If you think the Swedish Mafia stuff is asinine, there are, as other posters have demonstrated, good arguments to that effect, that have nothing to do with trying to argue that Moss is uncredible no matter what he does, simply because you want him to be.



Well, that's certainly additive and useful new information. Bravo.



No one has suggested that Jeff Moss is a good guy, or comes across well in this blog, or that being nettled into this post by Malik was a thoughtful decision.



I have absolutely no idea what you think you're arguing against, since it's clearly not the post you actually quoted.

Responding to your comments:

1) I just couldn't be bothered to quote all your posts railing against criticism of the article. Anyone following this thread can see the pattern.

2) I never had a problem with him not naming his source. If its for real, you NEVER name your source unless they in a position entirely free of potential repercussions. Otherwise, if there is truth to what is being reported, you are dropping at least one person in it in quite a malicious way...not to mention causing issues all the way down the information loop. If it is true, and HAS come from Abby that's pretty much an instant blackballing from everyone who can provide insider info ever again, because it will be very easy to track down the mouths who passed on the info for the people involved.
It would be both totally against accepted journalistic practices, utterly lacking in integrity, and very very stupid.

As for your second point, this has nothing to do with wanting Moss to be lacking in credibility. Sometimes, despite his writing style, he's pretty sharp and is sometimes v quick with good info (though not for a while!). I know nothing about the man bar a few of his articles, but the article in question is a ridiculous unsubstantiated hysterical mess, that flounders both in the face of analysis and by the criteria of credible journalism. I know a tiny bit about Sports Journalism because I have had some training in the field and in a different sphere have been a blogger and writer (sometimes even paid! ) for a few years, and have interviewed and broken stories about elite sportsmen. The article in question adheres to literally none of the standards outlined in any guidance I've ever received bar being a story of interest.

3) Apologies for summarising a point...I guess I should have known I would have achieved enough clarity prior to that...

4) I never said anyone did say that. I was reinforcing my earlier points with a separate one, by suggesting that 'naming' your source in this case actually undermines the credibility of the story rather than reinforcing it as had been suggested. I'm also not sure Malik was as active in encouraging the post in question as was implied by the author having followed the threads.

5) No it wasn't the post I quoted. See my answers 1, 2 & 3....

 

[chances14]

i can't take any "blogger" seriously when they spend 3/4 of their article complaining about other bloggers and journalists and feeling sorry for themselves that they don't have cliche among the wings media community

any information from a source who hears it from another source should be taken with a grain of salt since you can start to lose the context of the information

 

[izlez]

People can rip on this blog all they want...sad thing is, they've broken more big local sports stories in the past 10 years than the entire Detroit sports media combined. Jeff Moss is a bit looney, but he currently has his own weekly segment on a Lansing sports talk radio show and used to co-host a show on 1130 WFDN, and has a history of being correct on big news stories well before anyone else in the media has it. I mean, Moss was in an in person baseball draft for a fantasy league with Jose Canseco a few years back, got a guy from the Howard Stern show to do a couple phone pranks for him. I have no idea how this guy knows people, but he does.

Unfortunately we have said that about a lot of things in regards to that web-site that proved true later on. So it is fun to dismiss it, but there is the other side where they have legitimately broken sports news in this town first and seen stories be proven accurate later on as well.

I mean the guy clearly has connection in town, I find it a little hard to ignore that.

Serious question...what stories has this guy broke?

I was vaguely familiar with this website, but after this came out I spent a little bit of time clicking through old stories to see if he had broken any actual news before. 90% of what I saw was him complaining about sports talk radio not being sports talk (which I guess is the original purpose of the blog so no surprise there). The closest thing I saw to "breaking a story" was having sources explain why Max Bullough was suspended from a big Michigan State game when the team was keeping it quiet. A couple years later, the only people I see supporting his story are citing him as the source for their info.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Serious question...what stories has this guy broke?

I was vaguely familiar with this website, but after this came out I spent a little bit of time clicking through old stories to see if he had broken any actual news before. 90% of what I saw was him complaining about sports talk radio not being sports talk (which I guess is the original purpose of the blog so no surprise there). The closest thing I saw to "breaking a story" was having sources explain why Max Bullough was suspended from a big Michigan State game when the team was keeping it quiet. A couple years later, the only people I see supporting his story are citing him as the source for their info.

The main ones I found were Carlisle's firing from the Pistons in 2003.

The rest I saw were bullcrap where he attacked a media member over something stupid and claimed a broken story (Rob Parker's loan, the Swedish Mafia thing, Drew Sharp only watching half of Verlander's no-hitter)

 

[obey86]

The main ones I found were Carlisle's firing from the Pistons in 2003.

The rest I saw were bullcrap where he attacked a media member over something stupid and claimed a broken story (Rob Parker's loan, the Swedish Mafia thing, Drew Sharp only watching half of Verlander's no-hitter)

Bigger ones that come to mind:

*He had the Rick Carlisle firing when no one was even thinking about firing a coach with back to back 50 win seasons.
*He had David Brandon being out at UofM about a week before the news broke on the mainstream.
*Said Jim Harbaugh was in talks to be the UofM coach while every talking head/mainstream reporter was saying no way he is returning to college.
*Was reporting that Mike Illitch was extremely sick and basically on the verge of death well before the Detroit media picked up on it and he actually died.
*Had the news that 105.1 was shutting down before anyone else did.
*Had Ken Daniels' son passing away, again before any local newspaper had the info.