Line Combos: Playoffs: Leivo or Soshnikov and why?

[White Shadow]

leivo puts up points in the ahl, and puts them up in the nhl...but the coaches dont play him, that sounds crazy doesnt it, but there has to be a reason right...and every answer points to skating and speed, like leivo isnt skating in quicksand out there, but when every young player moving forward has great to elite skating and speed, you tend to be stand out even more

look at our D and forwards right now, some lack height and size, some lack talent and skills, some cant even shoot the dam puck, some lack it all, like hunwick and carrick dont got nothing going on other than being great skaters...our scouts, management, and coaches are building a team based upon skill and speed

speed in all 3 zones is also our main advantage over caps right now

You're right, it's not just Babcock who returned Leivo to the Marlies. All three of Wilson, Carlyle and Babcock returned Leivo to the AHL and/or OHL.

 

[indigobuffalo]

our coach doesnt seem to like leivo, theres nothing fans or the player can do when your coach isnt a fan of you

like a lot of fans dont like hyman much, but dam babs loves him, and theres nothing you can do cause its the coaches say

Did you listen to the post-game presser with Babcock? A reporter asked him about Hyman having a really good game and Babcock said "I think he's great every night. Glad someone else noticed."

I thought it was a subtle dig at the media and fan base. Loved it.

He made a good point about Hyman. He's a big body, and one of the best forecheckers in the NHL.

I think the reason so many people hate on Hyman is because they visualize an "elite" line as being comprised of Marner - Matthews - Nylander. Which is so clearly proven to be a bad idea but nobody bothers trying to understand why an elite coach has ideas different from their own. "Clearly I'm much smarter than the people considered to be the smartest in the world at this..."

 

[frizzer1]

coaches are building a team based upon skill and speed

speed in all 3 zones is also our main advantage over caps right now

Ok....but Boyle and Martin are not speedy to say the least and kadri is not fast either..

 

[burpsalot]

leivo puts up points in the ahl, and puts them up in the nhl...but the coaches dont play him, that sounds crazy doesnt it, but there has to be a reason right...and every answer points to skating and speed, like leivo isnt skating in quicksand out there, but when every young player moving forward has great to elite skating and speed, you tend to be stand out even more

look at our D and forwards right now, some lack height and size, some lack talent and skills, some cant even shoot the dam puck, some lack it all, like hunwick and carrick dont got nothing going on other than being great skaters...our scouts, management, and coaches are building a team based upon skill and speed

speed in all 3 zones is also our main advantage over caps right now

Leivo was the best forward on the Marlies in last years playoffs.

If you become transfixed with skating, you will miss so much more. Guys like Andreychuk & Kerr weren't the best of skaters, but seemed to make a dent in the league. Tavares was always criticized for his skating. The majority of people on here 18 months ago were saying Connor Brown skating wasn't good enough & he would not transition to the NHL.

Sometimes you have to stop worrying how cute a player looks getting from point A to point B, just so long as he gets to point B & knows what to do when he gets there.

 

[burpsalot]

They might. It's also good for him there will be 12-14 new forward positions available in the NHL next year. But, would anyone be all that surprised if he opted for a longer term deal with more financial security in Europe?

He'll be 24 next month and again...only 41 games in the NHL for his career.

& yet your boy Hyman had only played 16 games prior to turning 24.

Weird.

 

[White Shadow]

Leivo was the best forward on the Marlies in last years playoffs.

If you become transfixed with skating, you will miss so much more. Guys like Andreychuk & Kerr weren't the best of skaters, but seemed to make a dent in the league. Tavares was always criticized for his skating. The majority of people on here 18 months ago were saying Connor Brown skating wasn't good enough & he would not transition to the NHL.

Sometimes you have to stop worrying how cute a player looks getting from point A to point B, just so long as he gets to point B & knows what to do when he gets there.

Different era. You could get away with being slow back then. I think Jason Allison is just crossing the blue line now on his shootout attempt.

 

[Battle Lin]

Ok....but Boyle and Martin are not speedy to say the least and kadri is not fast either..

of our current team, the ones that are slower like boyle, martin, and polak...they have specific roles with us though, like faceoffs, ability to drop gloves, size, toughness and physicality, board and net presence in the defending zone...and you do need this stuff, so you sacrifice some speed and skating, but i still wouldnt say they're slow for what they do, they are fine skaters...kadri isnt fast yes, but he has very smooth and elegant skating, his shiftyness and edgework is good though, and he has legit hockey skills to carry the puck around the ice with no problem even though hes missing that elite top speed

 

[Menzinger]

41 games in 6 seasons and can't skate. He's going to start thinking about his future real soon.

He might be better off in Europe for his own sake.

And 10 points in 13 games.... I'd say he's looking to have an NHL career

 

[White Shadow]

& yet your boy Hyman had only played 16 games prior to turning 24.

Weird.

My boy Hyman?

He's a great example of someone with below average puck skills who gets by because of his skating.

How many years did Hyman get returned to the AHL as compared to Leivo?
Answer 1.
Reason...he went to NCAA and got a degree which lead him to a career outside of hockey. This is the point I'm making with Leivo, would anyone fault him if he took a more secure job playing hockey in Europe?

 

[White Shadow]

And 10 points in 13 games.... I'd say he's looking to have an NHL career

Awesome, would you also pay him as a 60 point player?

 

[burpsalot]

Different era. You could get away with being slow back then. I think Jason Allison is just crossing the blue line now on his shootout attempt.

Skating challenged Leivo has 10 points in 13 games playing minimal minutes on the 3rd & 4th lines. It's also about knowing what to do when you get there. Maybe less different than people think or we would have a team of figure skaters, they're fast & skate super.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Leivo. Bigger body against one of the larger teams, chips in more offense than Sosh, a harder matchup for the caps. Sosh is the better two way player but our forwards are providing fine support and our D are moving the puck well.

And I feel that he probably has something to prove.

 

[PuckMagi]

My ideal Game 3 lines:

Nylander - Matthews - Kapanen
JVR - Bozak - Marner
Leivo - Kadri - Brown
Komorov - Boyle - Hyman

Gardiner - Carrick
Dermott - Rielly
Hunwick - Marchenko

 

[Menzinger]

Awesome, would you also pay him as a 60 point player?

No, not yet, that would be silly. but that scoring pace does suggest he has the clear potential to be an scorer at an NHL level. I don't think that will be with the Leafs, but I think he secures a roster spot with his next team

 

[White Shadow]

Skating challenged Leivo has 10 points in 13 games playing minimal minutes on the 3rd & 4th lines. It's also about knowing what to do when you get there. Maybe less different than people think or we would have a team of figure skaters, they're fast & skate super.

Ya, let's lock him up long term to a 7 year $35M contract. He's clearly proven to be a 60 point player over that stretch.

 

[Menzinger]

Ya, let's lock him up long term to a 7 year $35M contract. He's clearly proven to be a 60 point player over that stretch.

Nobody's saying that at all, but it's hard to deny that scoring rate likely means he's got NHL caliber offensive skills.

 

[White Shadow]

Nobody's saying that at all, but it's hard to deny that scoring rate likely means he's got NHL caliber offensive skills.

But you are. You are saying look what he has done over his last 13 games, then drawing conclusions and making prognostications.

 

[CanadasTeam]

Nobody's saying that at all, but it's hard to deny that scoring rate likely means he's got NHL caliber offensive skills.

Possibly but in his 41 career NHL games, he's only accumulated 18 pts.

 

[Slyfox]

My ideal Game 3 lines:

Nylander - Matthews - Kapanen
JVR - Bozak - Marner
Leivo - Kadri - Brown
Komorov - Boyle - Hyman

Gardiner - Carrick
Dermott - Rielly
Hunwick - Marchenko

Dream lineup. But I expect Zaitsev to be back so my d-corps would be different.

 

[burpsalot]

Ya, let's lock him up long term to a 7 year $35M contract. He's clearly proven to be a 60 point player over that stretch.

If they managed that asset properly, we may know if we have another 60 point man. Makes more sense than playing him only 13 games & just assuming he won't perform over a full season as he has on the short term.

 

[White Shadow]

If they managed that asset properly, we may know if we have another 60 point man. Makes more sense than playing him only 13 games & just assuming he won't perform over a full season as he has on the short term.

It doesn't work that way for fringe NHLers. The onus is on them to prove they belong in the lineup and Leivo **** the bed 3 games in a row which cost him his spot.

If Leivo is a 1st rounder he gets the treatment you feel he deserves.

 

[burpsalot]

It doesn't work that way for fringe NHLers. The onus is on them to prove they belong in the lineup and Leivo **** the bed 3 games in a row which cost him his spot.

If Leivo is a 1st rounder he gets the treatment you feel he deserves.

It's also up to the team to properly evaluate a player for the team's benefit, not just the players.

I thought Babcock was a better coach than just giving up on a player that **** the bed for 3 games, especially when he produces the way Leivo has. Also Babcock didn't say it was about Leivo screwing up, he said that Leivo was the one getting screwed because he didn't play PK.

Heck Babcock hasn't sat Hyman & he's **** the bed most of the last 40 games.

 

[Menzinger]

But you are. You are saying look what he has done over his last 13 games, then drawing conclusions and making prognostications.

I'm saying I liked what I saw from that sample size to want to see more - which is a pretty reasonable conclusion.

 

[Menzinger]

Possibly but in his 41 career NHL games, he's only accumulated 18 pts.

Sure, but hard to fault a prospect who was called up when he wasn't ready.

A 20 year old Hyman would have looked absolutely useless out on the ice, he needed more development time.

 

[MR4]

If a top 9 forward or Martin gets injured, and Kapanen is being left on the 4th line not to mess with chemistry, I'd put in Leivo.

If Kappy is getting moved up in the lineup, I'd put in Sosh to keep that speed element on the 4th line.