Plans, Trades, and Automobiles: Fixing the Winged Wheel

[Roy S]

I'm still struggling to comprehend why Babcock and Holland wanted Cleary back so desperately that they promised to employ him past last season regardless of how he played. To do this for anyone was completely asinine, not to mention unprecedented (and possibly against league regulations)... and it was done for Dan Cleary, of all people?

Cleary himself said that he'd left that money on the table because he loves the organization and the city. Apparently that wasn't the whole truth. Apparently Holland's statement on the matter last September wasn't entirely true either:



That sounds more like "If he plays well, he'll probably get another contract." Apparently it meant, instead, "We'll give him another contract even if he plays terribly." If they're going to give him one despite his absolutely atrocious season, then why the hell didn't they just sign him for more than one year?

This just doesn't add up.

It adds up if they said they'd employ him after the season. That could be in GR or he could have a job in the front office like Maltby, Chelios, Fischer and Draper do. The one year deal gave them an out so he didn't have to actually play with the Wings in 2014-15 if he was terrible. He was awful, so now it shifts to plan B for Cleary's future employment with the Wings.

 

[Henkka]

They have Patesch, Hoggan, Grant, right now, Andersson is a safe bet to be demoted with Babcock's man love for Slow hand Luke. Emmerton is an RFA and I see him coming back cheap and going to the AHL. That's 5 right there, add Cleary and you have 6 without breaking a sweat.

Edit: Pulkkinen, Coetzee and AA are all also getting close to 260 games pro. (All will eclipse that number at different points in 2014-2015)

- Emmerton already signed in KHL (new Sotchi team)
- Adam Almquist is going to sign also with KHL team (Severstal)
- Coetzee is injured and maybe never recovers. ECHL-level guy if he returns.

 

[hot dog]

People are talking about Cleary on my Twitter feed today but I can't believe it. I won't let myself believe it and I can't believe they'd ever do it.

 

[Henkka]

That sounds more like "If he plays well, he'll probably get another contract." Apparently it meant, instead, "We'll give him another contract even if he plays terribly." If they're going to give him one despite his absolutely atrocious season, then why the hell didn't they just sign him for more than one year?

This just doesn't add up.

Maybe Holland promised to give him an extension offer a year ago. And the price of the offer would be based for the season 2013-14 Cleary had. It was pretty abysmal season. And Holland is offering now what he feels that really is Cleary's market value. 2-way contract = ~90% salary reduction. So pretty much Holland is keeping his promise but also telling for the player what does he think Cleary is worth right now.

So in English it's like:

- go to Griffins mature our kids at AHL-level if you still want to be a hockeyplayer
- or retire, and join the front office

 

[Frk It]

As long as Babcocks coach, we're all pretty naive if we think Cleary wouldn't be a call up when injuries hit. Given that we are going to have both Mantha and Pulkkinen, two legit young goal scorers in GR next year, we really need Cleary to go into an off the ice role.

I don't think it's realistic to expect Cleary to be contained.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

We will see what his knee is like, but the idea that Cleary cannot help the Griffins is interesting. I am far from a fan, I fear he would get called up so I don't want it. But to suggest he is going to actively harm GR if he is down is probably going a bit far. Guys that do that are vets like Tootoo that are effort players that don't give it at a lower level. Say whatever you want about what Cleary has become, I would be stunned if he didn't give his all every night even while riding the bus and help that team.

I just wish he would accept the front office role, or outright take a player coaching role with the Griffins. That way there is no real threat of a callup. But, he probably would be a decent AHL Player depending on his knee, the way Mike Keane was at the end of his career with the Moose.

Interestingly, I want Dan Cleary in the front office, I think he is going to be a good asset to the team in his post-playing career days in some role. Where he winds up, I don't know yet, but I have always liked the idea of him being an after retirement guy with the Wings. I do think he is a pretty sharp hockey player.

I also think it is unfortunate that we all have so much venom for a guy that unabashedly loves our city. When a lot of the rest of the World dumps on us and makes us a cute punch line, Cleary talks about that winged wheel and what it means to be from Detroit and calls it home. I get that his play has warranted a lot of anger, I am chief among his bigger bashers as far as his play on this board. But I don't hate Cleary the man, really far from it, been sad to watch him go from one of the favorites in 08' to where he is now. Will be much happier to just see him in an organizational role where people can get back to appreciating some of his better times and liking the fact he loves our organization and city so much.

 

[Crymson]

As long as Babcocks coach, we're all pretty naive if we think Cleary wouldn't be a call up when injuries hit. Given that we are going to have both Mantha and Pulkkinen, two legit young goal scorers in GR next year, we really need Cleary to go into an off the ice role.

I don't think it's realistic to expect Cleary to be contained.

Babcock benched Cleary last season. It happened before his injury, and, when he was healthy for a short period, still he wasn't played. Babcock went into the season as Cleary's self-professed biggest fan, but that obviously changed. Danny ended up riding the pine behind a bunch of players more than ten years his junior, and the coach openly advocated a youth movement at season's end. In short, all the data opposes your claim.

 

[hot dog]

I'm thinking it might just be a favor to Cleary to make it look like they still have some interest in him so maybe some sorry team thinks he still has something left in the tank. Or at least I'm telling myself that.

 

[Bench]

But, he probably would be a decent AHL Player depending on his knee, the way Mike Keane was at the end of his career with the Moose.

That scenario came to mind for me as well.

And I think it's good Holland is trying to honor his agreement to some level. It's frustrating as a fan, and he probably shouldn't have made said promises, but I respect him for sticking to his word.

Give him an AHL deal and see if he can rebound. If not, worst case scenario you've got a role-player and mentor that's very in tune with Detroit's system and culture in the minor leagues. I think people underestimate how helpful a player like Cleary would be to brand new professionals.

 

[Frk It]

Babcock benched Cleary last season. It happened before his injury, and, when he was healthy for a short period, still he wasn't played. Babcock went into the season as Cleary's self-professed biggest fan, but that obviously changed. Danny ended up riding the pine behind a bunch of players more than ten years his junior, and the coach openly advocated a youth movement at season's end. In short, all the data opposes your claim.

Babs did change his tune a little as the season went on. It's just worrisome because I feel like that is pretty deep rooted, between Babs and Clears. You always hear about them going with what they know, over what they don't know.

But hopefully it's a thing of the past like you said.

 

[Shaman464]

This doesn't come down to Babs, it comes down to Holland. Holland can sack up and sign or not sign anyone he wants. If Babs leaves over lack of Cleary in the line up, well good riddance, but the buck stops with Holland not Babcock.

 

[Winger98]

I also think it is unfortunate that we all have so much venom for a guy that unabashedly loves our city. When a lot of the rest of the World dumps on us and makes us a cute punch line, Cleary talks about that winged wheel and what it means to be from Detroit and calls it home. I get that his play has warranted a lot of anger, I am chief among his bigger bashers as far as his play on this board. But I don't hate Cleary the man, really far from it, been sad to watch him go from one of the favorites in 08' to where he is now. Will be much happier to just see him in an organizational role where people can get back to appreciating some of his better times and liking the fact he loves our organization and city so much.

Cleary has been a helluva player for us and has left a lot on the ice over the years. When he ran Phaneuf in the Calgary series and dropped the gloves with Pronger were character moments, and something I thought we were sorely lacking against the Bruins. I don't mind the guy working for the organization at all, and agree about seeing him as a good "hockey guy."

 

[jaster]

In response to the AHL vet rule being applied to GR next season.... Andersson is certainly not a safe bet to be in GR. He'd have to pass through waivers, and he'd be a strong candidate to be claimed. Most likely, he'll be a reserve forward in Detroit, and if not, it's probably because he was traded.

 

[PullHard]

Haven't been very present in this thread, but did anyone discuss trying to acquire Thornton or Marleau? Does anyone here think it is realistic/ good?

 

[Frk It]

Haven't been very present in this thread, but did anyone discuss trying to acquire Thornton or Marleau? Does anyone here think it is realistic/ good?

I like Thornton a lot as a player. But what would be the cost?

 

[PullHard]

I like Thornton a lot as a player. But what would be the cost?

I'm not sure what San Jose covets. Do they have a goalie in the system who will realistically be a legitimate starter once Niemi declines/ moves on?

 

[Mijatovic]

Niemi isnt a decent starter to begin with. They need an elite goalie. Their backup is servicable.

 

[KJoe88]

My birthday was two days ago. I recieved an Xbox One and a sweet pair of Adidas - I've been in a happy mood.

Now, two days later, I come and visit here, and what do I see? Daniel ******* Cleary posts about him potentially coming back.

I swear to God, if he's on this team next season, I will go and root for the Hawks or the Kings.

This is absurd. We owe him nothing and he doesn't deserve an NHL job. Get it through your thick skulls, Kenny and Mike. Pavel and Z should request a trade, because they're not winning with the GM we have.

/rant

 

[PullHard]

Niemi isnt a decent starter to begin with. They need an elite goalie. Their backup is servicable.

This is so weird to me because I'm almost positive just a season or two ago their fan base was saying he should've been in the Hart discussion.

 

[we like our team*]

niemi is a good goalie

 

[Crymson]

Babs did change his tune a little as the season went on. It's just worrisome because I feel like that is pretty deep rooted, between Babs and Clears. You always hear about them going with what they know, over what they don't know.

But hopefully it's a thing of the past like you said.

If I were Babcock, I'd feel sheepish and peevish about sticking my neck out for Cleary at the cost of having Nyquist start the season with the team, only to see him play absolutely atrocious hockey---and to watch Nyquist score two goals in his first game and then carry the team to the playoffs.

I think Babcock got the picture. Glendening is the new Cleary, it seems, and that's fine with me. Luke may have hands of stone, but he's a genuine character guy.

 

[InjuredChoker]

niemi is decent starter but he was pretty meh or even bad last season.

stalock has some potential. they might look for a solid prospect for there sure.

any youth will probably do as they'd go for a tank if they trade jumbo or marleau.

puck movers on LD is one area they have weakness. tatar, ouellet + 2nd was around what sharks fans have wanted for jumbo.

 

[PullHard]

Being able to roll

Z/D
Thornton
Weiss/Sheahan
Helm/Glendening

as our Cs could be impressive. Tatar and Ouellet is a bit too steep for me, though.

 

[Bench]

This is so weird to me because I'm almost positive just a season or two ago their fan base was saying he should've been in the Hart discussion.

And our fanbase was saying he was better than Howard. Like Pepperidge Farms, I remember.

As for Thornton or Marleau, both players would signal the ultimate WIN NOW scenario. I'm fine with that, for the record. I think the Wings need to maximize the next 3 year window, aka the Datsyuk window.

You're going to get a lot of resistance, though. Going back would be something like a 1st, Tatar, and Sproul... at least. Folks weren't thrilled with Kesler turning 30, so a couple of 35-year-olds aren't likely going to be a popular target when you'd have to move young, NHL ready pieces in return.

 

[InjuredChoker]

even if we are trying to win now, i think tatar is a keeper. cheap, possession monster, can score 40 points (at least!) from the third line and little pp time. his line tends to kill the other teams third line. and that was before he got competent linemates (sheahan and jurco).

i'd be willing to give up around ouellet and 1st this and and maybe some other smallish piece. i could easily see jumbo being 50-60 point player in 5 years, too.

getting both marleau and jumbo would be harder from cap perspective, would be hard to make room for both of them and that leaves little to no assets to improve the D.